Welder

[bhelton]

I am thinking of buying an inexpensive welder to learn with. Will be used mostly for learning and to fabricate some small brackets, stands for the shop and used for repairs on antique tractors. Material would mostly be .250".

What would everyone recommend--a wire fed or a stick welder. I probably would not use it enough to warranty the cost of keeping a gas bottle for the wire fed welder.

Thanks,

 

[mhoffm911]

If you want to pick one up at a reasonable cost to "practice", you may want to check out the local auctions to see what is being offered. I have sold many welders over the years.

Of course I don't really believe in buying anything new if I can avoid it.

 

[Stanger]

It depends on the auction I am sure, but I have seen alot of migs get run up pretty high. I would suggest a used Hobart/Miller/Lincoln. Buy as much power as you can afford/support. You will love welding once you try it so you might as well buy a nice one now. I have a Hobart Handler 187 and it is a great machine. I would recommend it to anyone. Refurbished they are about $500 for the A grade which look like identical to new.
Grant

 

[Franz©]

Watch auctions and sites like Craigslist and pick ourself up a machne like a Lincoln toumbstone and a box of 6013 rod and then practice. When you can make welds that you can't knock apart witha 4# hammer build brackets & repair tractors.

MIG machines are commonly known as HotGlue Guns because they are dangerous in the hands of an inexperienced person. It is very possible to pile hot glue on top of steel and make it look like a weld. That deposit will let go at the worst possible time.
Fluxcore wire welding is a workaround. Until you have an understanding of arc density and how it effects the deposit you really shouldn't consider gasless wire welding. Again, DAMN dangerous.

 

[Lu47Dan]

Franz is right to a certain point , If you buy a Mig welder (wire feed) by one that includes the regulator (flowmeter) for the shielding gas . than buy a small CO2 bottle for a Brewmiester or similar tap system . They make an adapter from the spud on the flow meter to the bottles port . It is known as a CGA320 to CGA580 cylinder adapter , and if you have a Airgas locally the Radnor item number is RAD64003956 and they are usually in stock . Then practice until you can put the coupon in a vise with the weld above the jaws of the vise and bend it back and forth without the weld breaking . I have a Hobart 175 Handler which I use for small projects and body work , it has preformed very well on thicker steel than you are talking about . One thing you should not buy is a 120 Volt welder of any type , there are some out there that will weld very well but they would be more than the small 220 Volt mig machines .
Stick with well respected brands , Miller , Lincoln , Hobart and Esab , they will hold their value . And once you start getting good at welding you will be finding other reasons to join steel .
Join some of the better fabricating message boards like http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/index.php or http://www.machinebuilders.net/default.asp
And ask questions of them , there is no such thing as a stupid question . Dan

 

[1320stang]

If you're mainly welding 1/4", I'd go with the venerable Lincoln "tombstone" arc welder. Even down to 1/8", you should be good, lighter than that you'd go to a MIG.

 

[Franz©]

Well as we clearly see some websites purporting to be fabricating sites spew truckloads of bad information. The referral to ShytFloorTalk and Machinecobblers coming from the owner of a late model ITW owner clearly indicate that neither of those sites has anyone aware late production ITW regulators will not accomodate straight Co2 without corroding. ITW chose to have their Chinese manufacturing done with a cheap grade of brass that isn't Co2 compatable.

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, the weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man behind the mask.

 

[Stanger]

If I've said it once I've said it a thousand times, the weld ain't in the machine, it's in the man behind the mask.

Amen to that. I must admit though that upgrading the machine made the man behind the mask happier(in my case). I welded with some crappy welders in the past 3 years because it was all I had. I learned the quirks of each and managed to be skilled with each one. They were thickness dependent. Good on this thickness, poor on another. I upgraded to a better machine which included going from 110v to 220v. This machine has more taps and has far better weld quality consistency across all ranges. The man behind the mask can get it done with poor machines but it can be frustrating. I do feel like I learned alot from those experiences though. In the end arc time is irreplaceable.
Grant

 

[krusty the clown]

Franz is right to a certain point , If you buy a Mig welder (wire feed) by one that includes the regulator (flowmeter) for the shielding gas . than buy a small CO2 bottle for a Brewmiester or similar tap system . They make an adapter from the spud on the flow meter to the bottles port . It is known as a CGA320 to CGA580 cylinder adapter , and if you have a Airgas locally the Radnor item number is RAD64003956 and they are usually in stock . Then practice until you can put the coupon in a vise with the weld above the jaws of the vise and bend it back and forth without the weld breaking . I have a Hobart 175 Handler which I use for small projects and body work , it has preformed very well on thicker steel than you are talking about . One thing you should not buy is a 120 Volt welder of any type , there are some out there that will weld very well but they would be more than the small 220 Volt mig machines .
Stick with well respected brands , Miller , Lincoln , Hobart and Esab , they will hold their value . And once you start getting good at welding you will be finding other reasons to join steel .
Join some of the better fabricating message boards like http://www.shopfloortalk.com/forums/index.php or http://www.machinebuilders.net/default.asp
And ask questions of them , there is no such thing as a stupid question . Dan

i have owned an astro 130 amp 120v welder for years. gave $375 for it........it welds very nice. i don't think you can buy a 220v welder for that!
i also use a lincoln 120v machine at work while it isn't a miller it welds nicely too.

 

[rockwithjason]

as you can see, some people here have a lot of axes to grind. don't let the bs distract you from your goal, keep an eye on the paper and craigsslist and such. get a machine and play around with it. visit other forums like the ones mentioned. look into classes at the community college. get the tools in your hands and use them! happy learning.

 

[Vicegrip]

No doubt. There is also good info too. I did not know that some of the 175s went to 25 amps when my little 120V Miller 130 only stops down to 30 amps. I use the 120 Volt Miller all the time for thinner metals and only go to the bigger MiG or Syncrowave 250 when I am welding thicker than 3/16 stock. 3/16 mild steel or thinner stock it works great and the welds pass the coupon and "Does not look like a bird ****" tests.

Get a name brand unit. Good used or new. Mig with Argon/CO2. Flux Sux. Read the directions. Cut up some stock and weld it back together. Break it. Flats, angles, vert upside down. Have fun. After a while it will progress to try to break it then on to try and break the nice looking weld that has good penetration and good starts and stops. Get a little handy and get a basic understanding of the equipment and methods. NOW if you still like this kind of work Go to school and become a Weldor. A welder is the noisy metal box on the other end of the fat black cord coming out of the MiG gun. A Weldor is the noisy human with the funny hat and a good skill.

Welding is a good skill to have that has use in many trades and hobbies. Once you have a working amount of the skill you will wonder how the heck you lived without it.

 

[PanelDeland]

I really think 110 is OK if you must learn.I have used lots of different 220 machine(I am by no means a weldor0 in my time as a maintainence mechanic.I find that most machines tend to be quirky after some use.I find that the adjustable ones need the contacts cleaned ocassionally.For anyone claiming they don't make a good 110 welder just try one of these puppies.I see the contractors at work use one to weld everything and I want one.Mostly because I want to learn TIG or GTAW.

http://store.cyberweld.com/mitigwema150.html

Yes it's almost $1200.00 but it is very portable.The bottle is a much bigger pain to move around.

 

[Franz©]

Actually, I've driven the lunchbox Miller, and even at 14# I wouldn't carry it out of the dealers if it was FREE.
On 110, actually 120 volts, the machine maxes out too soon. 3/32 rod capability maximum!
Quick Specs: Maxstar 150 STL
Input Power Requires 1-Phase Power
Rated Output 80 A at 23.2 VDC, 115 VAC
100 A at 24 VDC, 230 VAC
Output Power Range 5 - 110 A (DC), 115 VAC
5 - 150 A (DC), 230 VAC
Weight 14lb (6.2 kg)

Inverter technology is becoming a much balihooed sales tool, and frankly isn't anything special. Higher frequency transformers have been used since the 1940s for aircraft.

As a TIG power sourse, notice the BIG RED LETTERS
"This is a DC only machine. It cannot TIG weld Aluminum"
"Lift arc" for the love of doG, give me a break, any damn DC power sourse including a battery charger is lift arc capable. It's a lousey way to start an arc in TIG work, leads to contaminated tungstens and headaches.

SORRY, but that little lunchbox don't make the cut! It will frustrate hell out of a weldor for want of power. The Duty Cycle is also too low for effective use.

The common factor in all small machines is that people refuse to accept you cannot get more watts out of the machine than come in the power cord. I bought a propane powered Bobcat because I wanted a small machine that didn't require me to drag cable from the SA 200 parked outside. If a lunchbox would do the job I would have bought one.

""I see the contractors at work use one to weld everything and I want one.""
May I suggest unless the "contractors" are installing duct work you really want to stay far away from anything they worked on. Remember, most contractors were the low bidder, and their work is worth what they got paid. I never argue with any man who works cheap, I figure he knows what his work is worth. I tell customers that, give them my card, and tell them to keep it handy so they will know who to call when the low quality job needs repair.

 

[bmwpower]

Can someone school me on this AC/DC stuff and how it relates to welding?

 

[Franz©]

Can someone school me on this AC/DC stuff and how it relates to welding?

Stick or TIG?
What metal?

 

[bmwpower]

Stick or TIG?
What metal?

For whatever. I'm looking for what it means in general term re: welding.

 

[Franz©]

Cheap & dirty answer~
In Stick process- on steel
Many electrodes are current specific eg 7018 is a DC rod, don't run for **** on AC. 7018 AC runs fairly well on AC, but it ain't worth writing home about.
6013 will run AC, DC or DCRP handles nicer on DC than AC, but there is no way in hell to run vert up with 6013.

Contrary to the bullcrap spouted by a lot of people, it is totally possible to run overhead on AC with the proper rod. In my world if you can't run an overhead pass of 6013 overhead you ain't a weldor. 90% of the people who claim to be weldors can do it with DC, but they ain't got a hope on an AC machine. Once again, the weld ain't in the machine, it's the man or woman since I did teach a 16 year old girl to do it a while back.

When you run into a piect of steel that is magnetic, DC will drive you nuts, and often switching to AC will let you burn the weld in.

Carbon arc will run nice on DCRP, and lay everdure down slicker than snot on a doorknob either flat or vert. You can't strike and hold an arc with carbon on AC tosave your *** unless you're flying a 2 carbon torch.
A 2 carbon torch on AC works real well to loosen rusted and or frozen nuts. Try it with DC and you got nothing but a headache.

When you get into Stainless, most electrodes tend to be DCRP. Some AC electrodes are available, but DCRP delivers a nicer deposit.

TIG process-
Steel, stainless and copper are pretty much DC processes. THICK Aluminum can also be welded with DC TIG, if you go to Helium shielding. Most aluminum is welded with AC with constant hi frequency added for cleaning. When you get into inverter machines, square wave machines, sawtooth machines it's possible to do some very interesting things with the arc as far as cleaning and penetration, as well as hanging globs of molten metal in mid air.

MIG machines- Manufacturers are still developing new trick power suplys every day for aluminum and other exotics. I played with a MIG setup for aluminum a few months ago in the Dealer's lab, and it impressed me. The power suply is computer operated, and designed for robot operation. The machine started the weld with DC Hi Freq superimposed to establish the arc, then switched to sawtooth positive wave only for the run, and back to DC at the end of the deposit for crater filling.

MIG for basic steel is pretty much DC power suply constant voltage.