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Welders
- Thread starter dhaas66
- Start date
george4
Well-known member
Take the class first. You will have a better idea of the various types available and their uses.Not very familiar with welders and wanted to get a small welder to use to fabricate some things. I would obviosly take a class.
Can someone please give me a breakdown on common types and relative ease of use?
PCO6
Well-known member
The progression for me was ... O/A torch followed by arc then mig and finally spot welding. I haven't tried tig but I hope to at some time during my "retirement". I agree with george4 re taking a class first. I didn't and it probably shows. I had the benefit of my Dad teaching me the basics of O/A and arc back in the 60's. I picked up an inexpensive mig welder in the 80's and knowing what I knew about O/A & arc certainly helped. Spot welding is pretty straight forward.
Anything you do will take practice. Any small scraps of metal you have laying around should be thrown on the "welding practice pile".
Anything you do will take practice. Any small scraps of metal you have laying around should be thrown on the "welding practice pile".
BD1
Well-known member
Here's a couple of welding sites to search that will help. what type of work do you plan on doing. All kinds of machines and processes.
I would think you would want mig which is the easiest to learn. The Miller 211 is a pretty hot seller and they currently have a rebate program,
http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/
http://weldingweb.com/index.php
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/forumdisplay.php?3-Welding-Discussions
I would think you would want mig which is the easiest to learn. The Miller 211 is a pretty hot seller and they currently have a rebate program,
http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/
http://weldingweb.com/index.php
http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/communities/mboard/forumdisplay.php?3-Welding-Discussions
Do some searching, this topic has been beaten to death. Not trying to push you off, but there is just so much out there on this. Plus you need to include a bit more info on your end. Price range, use (be specific), power and space available.
Few tips, look for used Miller or Lincoln brands.
My recommendation order of progression in home shop welding.
1st--> 200amp class mig. Limited to steel*, lowest cost, easiest to learn. Can add other metals like aluminum* for additional money (spool gun, additional gas). Good for auto body repair.
2nd--> 200 amp class tig. If you plan on doing lots of aluminum or stainless put this as #1. Most good tig machines will stick weld for the thicker and dirty stuff.
3rd--> 30amp class Plasma cutter
4th --> O/A torch set. Not that useful for general fab work around the house IMHO
Few tips, look for used Miller or Lincoln brands.
My recommendation order of progression in home shop welding.
1st--> 200amp class mig. Limited to steel*, lowest cost, easiest to learn. Can add other metals like aluminum* for additional money (spool gun, additional gas). Good for auto body repair.
2nd--> 200 amp class tig. If you plan on doing lots of aluminum or stainless put this as #1. Most good tig machines will stick weld for the thicker and dirty stuff.
3rd--> 30amp class Plasma cutter
4th --> O/A torch set. Not that useful for general fab work around the house IMHO
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PCO6
Well-known member
justanengineer
Well-known member
I would think you would want mig which is the easiest to learn.
No disrespect intended, but thats one of the worst internet myths out there. MIG is actually one of the most difficult processes to master, which is why in a formal program its one of the last you will learn. Sure, pulling the trigger and holding it steady is easy, but mastering proper technique, setting up the machine, and getting a quality weld is really difficult.
I would highly recommend the OP start with an introductory class from an accredited school. If the school doesnt offer certification as part of the program, be wary. There is a ton of false info on the net about welding on these "popular" sites, and many will tell you to simply post a pic bc you can tell a ton about the weld quality based on a pic....yea right.
BD1
Well-known member
None taken. From what it sounds like to me, all he wants to do is hobby stuff and stick some metal together with a small machine. He's not gonna weld on a 300 pound pressure steam line or 36'' I beams.
I agree a 100% that mastering mig wire welding on something like that is above and beyond normal people. If he goes to stick it will stick and stick and
he may just give up. If he tries tig it will be so slow that he will get bored.
I still think that a basic mig machine will be the answer. Like stated, pulling the trigger and holding it steady should be very rewarding. He'll feel like he accomplished something.
By enrolling in a basic class you will get exposed to welding in general. You may prefer one process from another. Your experience will grow and you will
want another type of machine. Every process has it good points and limitations as does the machine.
I agree a 100% that mastering mig wire welding on something like that is above and beyond normal people. If he goes to stick it will stick and stick and
he may just give up. If he tries tig it will be so slow that he will get bored.
I still think that a basic mig machine will be the answer. Like stated, pulling the trigger and holding it steady should be very rewarding. He'll feel like he accomplished something.
By enrolling in a basic class you will get exposed to welding in general. You may prefer one process from another. Your experience will grow and you will
want another type of machine. Every process has it good points and limitations as does the machine.
zkling;
i'd change your list around
1st, O/A; you can weld, braze and cut (way thicker material than a plasma) and they're all over ebay and Craigslist for very little
2nd, TIG 300amp, used industrial transformer machine, what can't you weld with TIG? throw in some stick cables, look at the rod available in stick, ever try hard facing with MIG? you can do it with O/A or stick
3rd, MIG 200amp with spot & stitch timers, especially if you want to do sheet metal (auto bodies)
last plasma, i don't even have one..... yes, it will cut stuff that O/A won't......
my last cutting project..... ride height tools out of 0.125" stainless i sent them a digital file to the laser cutters and the parts came back....within 0.001"
why would i bother?
i'm in a 3 car garage with 100amp service, one is taken up by motorcycles, an air lift, Lyon parts cabinets and a washer/dryer/water heater
my Lincoln welders are big and heavy, but bulletproof, the 300/300 i bought new, is 38 years young and i wouldn't trade it for any other.....its used 1 O-ring in that time
the SP-200 has about a 100' reach
i have tool boxes on top of both of them.....got to put them somewhere
BD1;
if he gets bored because is slow......he should watch me TIG with an Aircrafter rotary table on full speed......doing aluminum
2 pedals and both hands
the chrome worm bead....no rod
"I still think that a basic mig machine will be the answer. Like stated, pulling the trigger and holding it steady should be very rewarding. He'll feel like he accomplished something."
disagree;
learning to weld and make a great weld is way different than the some yuppie with a MIG needing instant gratification.....
we call them '**** spitters' and 'electric glue guns for metal'
my MIG is usually used for making jigs...... no helmet, no goggles....
just turn my head and weld.....what, i can't make a 3/4" weld without watching it??????
i'd change your list around
1st, O/A; you can weld, braze and cut (way thicker material than a plasma) and they're all over ebay and Craigslist for very little
2nd, TIG 300amp, used industrial transformer machine, what can't you weld with TIG? throw in some stick cables, look at the rod available in stick, ever try hard facing with MIG? you can do it with O/A or stick
3rd, MIG 200amp with spot & stitch timers, especially if you want to do sheet metal (auto bodies)
last plasma, i don't even have one..... yes, it will cut stuff that O/A won't......
my last cutting project..... ride height tools out of 0.125" stainless i sent them a digital file to the laser cutters and the parts came back....within 0.001"
why would i bother?
i'm in a 3 car garage with 100amp service, one is taken up by motorcycles, an air lift, Lyon parts cabinets and a washer/dryer/water heater
my Lincoln welders are big and heavy, but bulletproof, the 300/300 i bought new, is 38 years young and i wouldn't trade it for any other.....its used 1 O-ring in that time
the SP-200 has about a 100' reach
i have tool boxes on top of both of them.....got to put them somewhere
BD1;
if he gets bored because is slow......he should watch me TIG with an Aircrafter rotary table on full speed......doing aluminum
2 pedals and both hands
the chrome worm bead....no rod
"I still think that a basic mig machine will be the answer. Like stated, pulling the trigger and holding it steady should be very rewarding. He'll feel like he accomplished something."
disagree;
learning to weld and make a great weld is way different than the some yuppie with a MIG needing instant gratification.....
we call them '**** spitters' and 'electric glue guns for metal'
my MIG is usually used for making jigs...... no helmet, no goggles....
just turn my head and weld.....what, i can't make a 3/4" weld without watching it??????
zkling;
i'd change your list around
1st, O/A; you can weld, braze and cut (way thicker material than a plasma) and they're all over ebay and Craigslist for very little
2nd, TIG 300amp, used industrial transformer machine, what can't you weld with TIG? throw in some stick cables, look at the rod available in stick, ever try hard facing with MIG? you can do it with O/A or stick
3rd, MIG 200amp with spot & stitch timers, especially if you want to do sheet metal (auto bodies)
last plasma, i don't even have one..... yes, it will cut stuff that O/A won't......
my last cutting project..... ride height tools out of 0.125" stainless i sent them a digital file to the laser cutters and the parts came back....within 0.001"
why would i bother?
watching it??????
I respectfully disagree, but that is WITHOUT knowing what the OP wants to do. If his primary focus is repairing sheet metal on cars as well as building a cage. The mig would be a good first choice. If he wants to build a inter cooler to turbo his rice rod, then a 200amp tig would be much more suited to the task.
You actually believe in timers on the mig? I am a bit surprised based on your experience. Now the new pulse features on the MM350p and the like are great for aluminum. But the old spot and stitch timers?
I agree that a good tig is much more versatile than a mig, but the entrance cost is usually quite a bit higher.
In this day and age, sadly I don't think many new folks have the patience to learn to weld with a torch setup. I can't remember the last time I lit my torch. Actually I sold the bottles and just kept torch for future use. For the work I do (general fab and repair) a torch is not something I really miss.
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zkling;
I agree if he's doing auto body and cages MIG is the way to go
(I prefer to TIG cages its just neater)
i suggested older machines that have spot and stitch timers they make good spot welds with zero skill
that said i have a Panel Spotter, makes 2 spot welds at a time from one side
older machines are cheaper and more reliable (less electronics)
i use my O/A 2nd to the TIG
preheating castings? a rosebud
hardening gun parts? a welding tip
i braze frames(motorcycle and bicycle) Silox S-3 has a tensile of 119,000psi
castings get brazed some of the time
fixing radiators?
cutting plate?
and they don't call them a "Heat Wrench" for nothing
how about forming solid stock? a rosebud
you should be able to put together used;
a 300amp TIG setup complete with 2 tanks (i have no use for water coolers)
a 200amp MIG and tank
an O/A set with tanks
for under $2K
talking a new MM350p now thats a bunch of money
I agree if he's doing auto body and cages MIG is the way to go
(I prefer to TIG cages its just neater)
i suggested older machines that have spot and stitch timers they make good spot welds with zero skill
that said i have a Panel Spotter, makes 2 spot welds at a time from one side
older machines are cheaper and more reliable (less electronics)
i use my O/A 2nd to the TIG
preheating castings? a rosebud
hardening gun parts? a welding tip
i braze frames(motorcycle and bicycle) Silox S-3 has a tensile of 119,000psi
castings get brazed some of the time
fixing radiators?
cutting plate?
and they don't call them a "Heat Wrench" for nothing
how about forming solid stock? a rosebud
you should be able to put together used;
a 300amp TIG setup complete with 2 tanks (i have no use for water coolers)
a 200amp MIG and tank
an O/A set with tanks
for under $2K
talking a new MM350p now thats a bunch of money
I respectfully disagree, but that is WITHOUT knowing what the OP wants to do. If his primary focus is repairing sheet metal on cars as well as building a cage. The mig would be a good first choice. If he wants to build a inter cooler to turbo his rice rod, then a 200amp tig would be much more suited to the task.
You actually believe in timers on the mig? I am a bit surprised based on your experience. Now the new pulse features on the MM350p and the like are great for aluminum. But the old spot and stitch timers?
I agree that a good tig is much more versatile than a mig, but the entrance cost is usually quite a bit higher.
In this day and age, sadly I don't think many new folks have the patience to learn to weld with a torch setup. I can't remember the last time I lit my torch. Actually I sold the bottles and just kept torch for future use. For the work I do (general fab and repair) a torch is not something I really miss.