I am a newbie welder, (arc), and I recently came across some nice small pieces of cold rolled meal for practice. I started to soak them in CLR and realized that it left a film on the metal. Can someone tell me about the health hazards of burning CLR? I know chlorine is very bad. What other chemicals should I look out for? Thanks for any input. m.breen.
Welding and dangerous fumes
- Thread starter m.breen
- Start date
Doug Arthurs
Well-known member
Avoid coatings like galvanizing or cadium or zinc coatings. NO idea what clr leaves behind but to clean metal for welding just wire brush or grind the area around where you will be welding. If there coatings at least grind the off but do this outdoors and you should still wear a respirator. Google metal fume fever.
astroracer
Well-known member
Like Doug said, all you need to do to prep steel for welding is a light grind or sanding to remove rust and grease. "Soaking" in CLR does nothing to prep the metal, there is absolutely no reason to do this.
Mark
Mark
cvairwerks
Well-known member
Also understand that any chemical coating, be it permanent or temporary has the potential for being hazardous to your health when it’s in an area subject to welding heat. When in doubt, look it up and clean the area to bare metal.
BTW chlorinated cleaners in any form tend to produce poisonous gasses when heated beyond certain temps.
BTW chlorinated cleaners in any form tend to produce poisonous gasses when heated beyond certain temps.
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bad_idea
Well-known member
Get a 3M half face respirator with P100 filters. They can be purchased at Home Depot or Lowe's for ~$30. The respirator and P100 filters are compact enough to fit under your welding shield. Next concern is adequate ventilation to get the fumes out of the shop. A healthy fan in a window will pull the fumes out decent enough with the doors open too.
As has been said by others, don't use chemicals on the metal. Avoid welding on zinc or cadmium coated metals. Brake Cleaner will create Phosgene gas when welded on. Google that one, it is a chemical weapon that was used a lot in WW1.
As has been said by others, don't use chemicals on the metal. Avoid welding on zinc or cadmium coated metals. Brake Cleaner will create Phosgene gas when welded on. Google that one, it is a chemical weapon that was used a lot in WW1.
Handyfarmer
Well-known member
stay away from brake cleaners,
I would doubt if CLR would have any bad residual effects, (most likely it is just a weak acid)
weld in open air and with ventilation, even welding galvanized may get you feeling a bit funny, but there is not any long term effects, if concerned were a respirator,
there are what they call fume extractors basically a vacuum hose that exhaust the majority of the smoke and fumes away from your area,
wire brush the metal or grind it if bad and weld, unless your trying to prepare it for paint or some other reason, I don't think chemical "prepping" is going to do the normal home shop any good,
I did use some steel off a 40 year old irrigation machine, that had a lot of lime and calcium build up on it I just ground off the scale and welded, If I would have been painting I may have used hydrochloric acid or some thing to remove the lime build up, but for welding not needed,
Personally I think,people have been so conditioned that there scared of every thing, today,
every thing has a sticker on it that says according to the state of california if you look at this device you will die of cancer in 24 hours, (or is that it contains materials that could cause cancer) I get confused,
they have people thinking if they see lead paint there going to shrivel up and die,
the same with abestious, and so on,
but many of these same people who have such fears smoke cigarettes, and such,
yes it is good to protect your self, but I doubt if the average DIY is going to suffer any Ill harm from welding on a few pieces of steel,
I would doubt if CLR would have any bad residual effects, (most likely it is just a weak acid)
weld in open air and with ventilation, even welding galvanized may get you feeling a bit funny, but there is not any long term effects, if concerned were a respirator,
there are what they call fume extractors basically a vacuum hose that exhaust the majority of the smoke and fumes away from your area,
wire brush the metal or grind it if bad and weld, unless your trying to prepare it for paint or some other reason, I don't think chemical "prepping" is going to do the normal home shop any good,
I did use some steel off a 40 year old irrigation machine, that had a lot of lime and calcium build up on it I just ground off the scale and welded, If I would have been painting I may have used hydrochloric acid or some thing to remove the lime build up, but for welding not needed,
Personally I think,people have been so conditioned that there scared of every thing, today,
every thing has a sticker on it that says according to the state of california if you look at this device you will die of cancer in 24 hours, (or is that it contains materials that could cause cancer) I get confused,
they have people thinking if they see lead paint there going to shrivel up and die,
the same with abestious, and so on,
but many of these same people who have such fears smoke cigarettes, and such,
yes it is good to protect your self, but I doubt if the average DIY is going to suffer any Ill harm from welding on a few pieces of steel,
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Stuart in MN
Well-known member
Note that the issue is with chlorinated brake cleaner. They also sell non-chlorinated brake cleaner that doesn't create the risk of phosgene gas (in fact, in some areas it may be hard to even find the chlorinated stuff anymore.)
CraigStu
Well-known member
One of the characteristics I like about brake cleaner is it evaporates so quickly. I would have thought there was nothing left behind?
sberry
Banned
There isnt. If fumes in air are gone and there is no liquid then it's not there. There was a point back when where welding was done in the presence of liquid cleaners. UV converted some to gas. But once modern cleaner is dry or gone it's not the same.
It's too bad there isn't a like button on this site.
laser3kw
Well-known member
thank you - and good save
MBfreak
MEMBER EMERITUS
Reactions to welding fumes are very individual and change over time. I have a childhood friend who ( now 75) was licensed welder since 22 for most applicatioons and methods. Gas, stick AC/DC , MIG and TIG for a broad range of metals.
At around 55 he started to notice breath difficulties and skin rash. He converted his work habits to a full upper body cover with fresh air supply from a safe source.
Fixed the problem, but he returned all his licenses at 60 and has never welded again,
Today if he goes to a shop where welding is done, reactions come back.
Ola
At around 55 he started to notice breath difficulties and skin rash. He converted his work habits to a full upper body cover with fresh air supply from a safe source.
Fixed the problem, but he returned all his licenses at 60 and has never welded again,
Today if he goes to a shop where welding is done, reactions come back.
Ola
dr_clyde
Well-known member
CLR is just a diluted acid, shouldn't have any problems welding on that after its dried.
Welding on zinc can cause some issues, the smoke from galvanized or plated steel is not good to breathe.
Grind to clean metal and skip the chemicals, IMO. If you're really working on some fussy stuff, a wipe with acetone will be all you want to do.
As said, non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a safe solvent to use, although its not very effective. There are way better ways to prep metal for welding than hosing it down with brake cleaner.
When I'm welding a LOT of mig or stick (rare for me, I do mostly TIG), I wear a miller respirator that fits under my hood. If I get into doing that on a regular basis, I will get a PAPR system.
The biggest hazard right now in welding is hexavalent chromium. This compound is present in fumes when you're MIG welding or stick welding stainless. OSHA is really cracking down on fume extraction and breathing protection when welding stainless.
Keep yourself safe. You only get the one body.
Welding on zinc can cause some issues, the smoke from galvanized or plated steel is not good to breathe.
Grind to clean metal and skip the chemicals, IMO. If you're really working on some fussy stuff, a wipe with acetone will be all you want to do.
As said, non-chlorinated brake cleaner is a safe solvent to use, although its not very effective. There are way better ways to prep metal for welding than hosing it down with brake cleaner.
When I'm welding a LOT of mig or stick (rare for me, I do mostly TIG), I wear a miller respirator that fits under my hood. If I get into doing that on a regular basis, I will get a PAPR system.
The biggest hazard right now in welding is hexavalent chromium. This compound is present in fumes when you're MIG welding or stick welding stainless. OSHA is really cracking down on fume extraction and breathing protection when welding stainless.
Keep yourself safe. You only get the one body.
sberry
Banned
We used acetone on a nuke. They had a little plastic red squirt bottle held about a quart. There was actually a clean check prior to some welds. I think it was mainly to remove any snot left from buffing wheels.
welder4956
Well-known member
The Safety Data Sheet for CLR says the only hazardous combustion product is carbon monoxide. So no problem welding over the residue provided the area has good ventilation.
https://clrbrands.com/Jelmar/media/sds/proline/CLR-PRO-CALCIUM-LIME-RUST-SDS-64P0216-10-22-18.pdf
https://clrbrands.com/Jelmar/media/sds/proline/CLR-PRO-CALCIUM-LIME-RUST-SDS-64P0216-10-22-18.pdf
pcmeiners
Well-known member
"the only known, safe metal prep for welding I know of, is acetone "
Agree, Acetone is one of the safest solvents you can use, our bodies produce it.
Agree, Acetone is one of the safest solvents you can use, our bodies produce it.
A point I want to make for the home or DIY types fumes or chemicals will effect a developed body much less than a child. Be particularly careful if there are children about when you perform welding operations.
Also it is not just heat that will bring about a chemical reaction an electric arc can cause chemicals to react and form other chemicals.
Also it is not just heat that will bring about a chemical reaction an electric arc can cause chemicals to react and form other chemicals.
ClappedOutBport
Well-known member
- Joined
- Mar 30, 2016
- Messages
- 998
I have some concerns about this too. Mostly heavy metals, and fumes from things like aluminum bronze. I don't think those are talked about enough compared to zinc and brake clean. The prior two will mess you up short term, but what about the long term effects from heavy metals?
I mostly weld on old angle iron (not a lot mind you) that I believe to be coated in red lead oxide primer. I grind all the primer off the areas I will be welding with a respirator. I also wear my respirator when grinding tungstens. Maybe that's over the top, I dunno, but I'd like to be doing this for a long time.
I mostly weld on old angle iron (not a lot mind you) that I believe to be coated in red lead oxide primer. I grind all the primer off the areas I will be welding with a respirator. I also wear my respirator when grinding tungstens. Maybe that's over the top, I dunno, but I'd like to be doing this for a long time.
LS6 Tommy
Well-known member
I have one of those next to my toilet...
Tommy
That hood will protect you from a lot of fowl, dangerous odors...but the warning label specifically excludes your intended use...
