Welding and Welder for "new" Maintenance Department

[customh]

Im basically restarting the maintenance department at a company that has been around for 30 years. Long story they've had a guy for the last 5-10 years that they paid to basically sit around. Anyhow my boss is great and is behind most things I want to implement as long as I have justification.
That's the back story. The question is about where to get some good start up training as a very inexperienced weldor as well as what machine(s) to start with. He wants to take a class somewhere with me. Any suggestions?


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[sberry]

Go to a comm college. What is your mechanical experience now? What kind of company?

 

[zmotorsports]

Agreed. Try the local community college first as they are usually pretty good about custom tailoring a program for your needs if you aren't actually looking for a specific certification or certificate of completion.

As for a machine, it would be helpful to know exactly what kind of maintenance you will be doing. What kind of material and components will you be maintaining.

Mike.

 

[sberry]

If guys have mechanical background and don't need to train them to fabricate along the way and can focus on welding they can learn a lot in anywhere from a few minutes to a week. A week is long enough to remember what you heard to a process, it helps a bit with hand skills but they come over time.
Real welding schools are long and expensive and tailored toward career welders in some respect. The maintenance type if he has skills or education doesn't need to complete course work in an orderly fashion,,, a program,,, but needs to get to the rubber hitting the road part of it and there may be some value added service to choosing a tool line etc, not everyone is so good at this, many rely on own experience vs getting the correct tools for the particular application. (I bought some wrong early on due to this)

 

[sberry]

Some real consulting here may be well worth the investment due to the fact we are talking bosses, paid men, processes or production and this can be a limping deal or a great accelerant to a production. the maintenance moves from a liability to an asset.
Often there is a difference in consultants, while the guy at the welding supply may be knowledgeable and help with best interest its not always the case.

 

[MoonRise]

Maintenance and welding on what?

Vehicle maintenance? Steel I-beams? Sheet metal? Hydroelectric power plant? Rock quarry? Flower shop? What?

 

[Bondo]

Ayuh,.... My local weldin' shop has night classes several times a year,....

20-odd years ago, I bought a great little Lincoln tombstone ac/ dc welder from 'em, that came from their "School",...
An almost new welder, 1/2 off the new price,....

 

[customh]

I see GJ as a sounding board for my thoughts and they are often incomplete when I make the first post. We do dry industrial powder processing. The equipment we use is augers, steel tank/drum type things, some stands and structures for machines, etc. Even some sheet metal parts of machines may have to be welded. We may want to get into production of the machines we use at some point, but right now the welding will be related to installation and maintenance of current equipment. Adding a bracket here and there, building stands, modifying a feed pipe for something, building a workbench, stuff like that.

My mechanical experience is all on the job learned. I was in Oil and Gas and petrochemical inspection, then assembly for a short time and kind of fell into this gig. I've learned quite a bit from my dad and friends over the years as I generally hang out with people that are into cars, machinery, and fabricating.

We are a small company, under 20 employees. I don't know if the consulting deal is really necessary but I do see how it would help. Bottom line is that the boss probably won't want to pay for it and I think I'm on the way to a lot of the things that a consultant would tell us. What sberry is talking about with the rubber meeting the road part of things is where I think I/we could use some help. What process should we use when? What machines/supplies/tools do we need to have around? When I am welding what machine adjustments do I need to make when something isn't working out? I'm mechanical and I can figure out most of the fabrication side of things. Just think I could do better than figuring it out as I go and just springing for something like a Miller Multimatic 215. Maybe there's enough value in having separate machines for GMAW, GTAW, and SMAW to justify going that route.

 

[bczygan]

If I were the boss, I would be looking at this from the point of does it save me money.

My employee is of course thinking, "I'll learn new skills, have more responsibility and pay and more toys to play with."

So I will constrain him to what makes sense to the company financially.

It sounds like neither you or the boss have a clue about what welding you will need to be doing.

So let's start with what you do now. Who does repairs that require welding? What processes do they use? What kind of welders?

Get that guy in there and pump him for info. Ask him what he would need to do to gear up for production of some of the things you want to do.

You might get a welder or welding teacher to come by and give you a rundown. Give them some kind of gift or compensation for their time.

Only after getting educated a little, can the boss decide how whole hog he wants to go. You can find this stuff out and have the info he needs.

Bill

 

[steel 35]

Maintenance and welding on what?

Vehicle maintenance? Steel I-beams? Sheet metal? Hydroelectric power plant? Rock quarry? Flower shop? What?

Shortest post ever! Highest respect and always read your posts.

 

[homebuilt burner]

You could call your local welding supplier and ask these questions. They can either help you themselves or suggest someone in the area. They also usually have used equipment for sale.

 

[MoonRise]

No welding experience at all, and wanting to jump right in and do all 'support' welding for your company, covering repair and modification of existing 'industrial' machinery as well as possible welding and fabrication of new machines or racks or benches or shelves or what not?

Go over to the Lincoln and Miller and ESAB websites. Read through the tons (well, when printed on paper it would be tons, but as electrons on a computer screen it's probably just a few milligrams ) of information about welding, welding theory, welding practice, welding safety, different types of welding processes, and so forth. Depending on how fast you read, come back in a few weeks.

Want more hands-on type of learning? Try a community college or vo-tech school or Adult Education school and look into something like 'Into to Welding'. You're not looking for a 'welding degree' here, just some practical info and practice about welding.

Or look into the Lincoln welding school.

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-us/education-center/welding-school/Pages/welding-school.aspx

"Intro to Welding", one week course with some lecture and mostly 'lab' time

http://www.lincolnelectric.com/en-u...ing-school/Pages/intro-to-welding-course.aspx

Or similar at Hobart or others.

https://www.welding.org/about-hobart/general-information/faq/

No offense meant, but you seem to be asking questions about

What process should we use when? What machines/supplies/tools do we need to have around? When I am welding what machine adjustments do I need to make when something isn't working out?

when it seems you don't really know what you want or need to do just yet.

Welding is 'just' melting some metal (usually, although "plastic welding" is a 'thing' too ) and getting the molten metal in the right place at the right time, in the right amount and the right 'type' to accomplish what you need that molten metal to do for you.

The devil is in the details on how to do all that molten metal thing though.

Which come from knowledge and practice.

Stick two pieces of 'medium' thickness (let's say 1/8" or so, give or take) mild steel together? Maybe five minutes to a half hour of a teacher helping you set it all up and do a quick few weld beads.

Reliably be able to use various welding processes, to appropriately weld various metal types and thicknesses and end applications? And to know when welding is not appropriate (yes, sometimes welding isn't the answer and sometimes not even a choice)? That might take a bit longer. Both in the 'learning' and in the practice of the welding skills.

Welding isn't brain surgery or rocket science (although it is often used behind the scenes in both of those endeavors). But it is a skill and an art.

I don't think you are yet to the point of 'buy a welding machine', never mind 'how to adjust the welding machine(s)'.

Again, no offense meant.

Go read up about welding for a while. Figure out what you need to be welding (mild steel, stainless steel, aluminum, other metals) and what thickness range you would be dealing with. Figure out what welding process(es) might be appropriate. Proceed to reading up some more.

Ask more questions as you learn more about what questions to ask.

 

[trackwelder]

I see GJ as a sounding board for my thoughts and they are often incomplete when I make the first post. We do dry industrial powder processing. The equipment we use is augers, steel tank/drum type things, some stands and structures for machines, etc. Even some sheet metal parts of machines may have to be welded. We may want to get into production of the machines we use at some point, but right now the welding will be related to installation and maintenance of current equipment. Adding a bracket here and there, building stands, modifying a feed pipe for something, building a workbench, stuff like that.

My mechanical experience is all on the job learned. I was in Oil and Gas and petrochemical inspection, then assembly for a short time and kind of fell into this gig. I've learned quite a bit from my dad and friends over the years as I generally hang out with people that are into cars, machinery, and fabricating.

We are a small company, under 20 employees. I don't know if the consulting deal is really necessary but I do see how it would help. Bottom line is that the boss probably won't want to pay for it and I think I'm on the way to a lot of the things that a consultant would tell us. What sberry is talking about with the rubber meeting the road part of things is where I think I/we could use some help. What process should we use when? What machines/supplies/tools do we need to have around? When I am welding what machine adjustments do I need to make when something isn't working out? I'm mechanical and I can figure out most of the fabrication side of things. Just think I could do better than figuring it out as I go and just springing for something like a Miller Multimatic 215. Maybe there's enough value in having separate machines for GMAW, GTAW, and SMAW to justify going that route.

With limited skill as a welder could anything you build or modify cause any harm to anyone? I would look at getting some kind of training. At my place of employment we have a defined set of procedures in place for almost any type of welding repair. Liability is a huge factor in most places.

 

[sberry]

Buy a Miller Maxstar 150s first and then a MM252. Buy a torch set and a 40-60 amp plasma. Couple 4 1/2 grinders.

 

[sberry]

Some help could train a or more men at the same time. Want to do this decent for small factory to get on their feet about 10-12 grand in tools if you buy good macines and about a week of master training/set up/to the point a couple decent hands could fix some stuff without slow trial and error and hand to mouth learning.

 

[dr_clyde]

Buy a Miller Maxstar 150s first and then a MM252. Buy a torch set and a 40-60 amp plasma. Couple 4 1/2 grinders.

This will get you a long ways. If I could, I would substitute the maxstar with a dynasty. This gets you a bit more amp capacity, the ability to run on 3 phase input power, and AC current with HF.

I work in industrial maintenance doing pipefitting, repair welding, and new fabrication. My most valuable machine is a Dynasty 200 DX. Industrial repairs are full of all varieties of metals. You'll find AC/DC TIG output to be incredibly useful.

 

[RWB3]

Check with your local welding supply company and see if they have any training available. Community Colleges and your local school system should offer "Adult Education" training courses.

Does the company already have welding equipment from the old maintenance guy? If they do start by learning to use the equipment they own. Look at what kind of welding was done in the facility by the last guy or any outside contractors that were hired. That should give you an idea what type of equipment you will need.



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[sberry]

I agree the dyn being a superior machine and if I had a lot of alloy work hands down something I would go to and as you point out there may be some benefit depending on plant power. You are a specialist and a master at this point though.

 

[sberry]

Onr of the reasons I recommend some crash course training is that it will help the study. I am a return on investment guy and where production and moving machinery are concerned some welding equipment usually doesn't take too long to pay off, some of it in a single event.
I wanna try one of the green imports, I forget the name now but 220 for a dvi 150S machine. I don't know how long it would last or how efficient it is compared to a Max but 220$ isn't too hard to return.
If there was a store that had one may even be tempted to knock a few bucks off to get started and stay with manual controls and go to a Ironman 230 for the feeder.

 

[jw3]

My dad talked me into taking a welding class at a local community college 20 yrs ago. He told me he didn't have a doubt that I could teach myself, but with a little instruction the learning curve would go much faster.


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[zkling]

What is the machine budget for this project?

 

[customh]

Ended up getting a Millermatic 211 from Zoro with their Cyber Monday deal. It should fit 90% of the welding we will need to do. Now to decide on a cart. Probably buy the HF cart and modify it.

 

[gt1guy]

Ended up getting a Millermatic 211 from Zoro with their Cyber Monday deal. It should fit 90% of the welding we will need to do. Now to decide on a cart. Probably buy the HF cart and modify it.

What do you need to buy a cart for? You just got a welding machine and need to practice. Guess what your first project should be.

 

[Engine]

+1
Fab one up. Get some experience with the new welder, plus you might even make a cart a lot better than the HF one. Here's a page with lots of ideas to get you started.

 

[Know Wosad]

The instructor at the comm college can come to your facility and evaluate the equip you'll need.

 

[bon3s]

So, a little background ... i do industrial fabrication and welding for a large variety or factories that range from food grade stainless (304, 316 and Inconel) to large heavy dirty steel plants... no matter the size of the company we do the work for, at some point the maintenance dept. has come to the conclusion that they can and want to do our job. The company sets them up with a a few tig welders and migs, usually atleast one big 220 mig (MM252 or similar)... we see work drop off for about a year...

Down the road when we do come back... and we always come back, its to fix things at 10 times the cost as if we had just kept coming in over the year.

In my eyes (and im not trying to step on toes) your job in that dept is preventative maintenance and upkeep of the machines, not fabrication or modification of. Yes being able to use a welder correctly to fix small brackets and what not I agree is good to know. If you think you can self learn and build as well as your boss would want to take on the liability of building machinery in house as well as things like stairs, handrails, platforms etc. I would think twice. Yes contractors are expensive, but they use people that know that line of work... such as certified structural welders, those able to make food grade tig welds, as well as the liability insurance for the install, and have the room to usually fabricate everything off site, mock fit it together, knock down, ship out and then send the guys that built it to install it.

I think you and your bosses first steps should be taking a few classes before doing or buying anything where you can get some time running a machine in a controlled environment with supervision.

Second I think you and your boss need to have a true discussion with what you and he both think the end goal is.

At this point you can narrow down what you need in a machine as well as further education.

 

[Spareparts]

Look inside the side panel at the table, suggesting power setting and wire feed for different thickness of metal. Get some different size material in short pieces and start welding. Practice will be your best friend. It is not hard, if it sounds like bacon frying it's close.

 

[customh]

Well this is a long overdue update.

The Miller 211 that we ended up buying has easily paid for itself. What's prompting me to post is that it's finally on a proper cart as of last week.

Found a deal at the Fastenal Clearance Outlet (through craigslist oddly enough) for this cart that had the caster mounts welded in the wrong spot. Snatched it up for $225 and had a courier bring it over. Cut off the caster mounts, welded in proper spots- ironically ran out of gas had to finish up the next morning. Murphy says you'll run out of gas when you're finally making a safe place for the cylinder. Shot some flat black on the spots as I walked by through the rest of the day.

I know my shop is messy- this is also the least flattering backdrop I could have used in my shop/parts room. Regardless not the way I want it and working every day towards organization, documented bin locations for parts, etc. Very difficult to make drastic forward progress on that as a one man band.

PS: Right side of the second picture you can see the makeshift furniture dolly/cart I had previously rigged up. The new one needs a locking bar for the drawers and forklift pockets to be everything I have been wanting.

 

[tatra]

You mention the presence of powders . Are these explosive , flammable etc under certain conditions and do you have the experience to identify potential hazards to yourself , workmates and the facility ? A minimum 1/2 hour fire watch is the least amount of time where I work after completion of a welding job due to maintenance . Just some additional food for thought . Never mind respirators and such for whatever fumes there may be . It is more than just metal fusion in the big picture .

 

[zmotorsports]

Nice Travis.

Great idea with the cart and accessories hanging on it.

 

[customh]

Nice Travis.

Great idea with the cart and accessories hanging on it.

Thanks Mr. Z. We should talk again soon.

You mention the presence of powders . Are these explosive , flammable etc ...[CHOP]... more than just metal fusion in the big picture .

I appreciate the concern. When we bought the welder I had little concern for these implications and was more concerned/interested in the capabilities I was adding to my arsenal- both for the company and for my own opportunity to hone another skill on the job.

I have been fairly careful in my choice/agreement to projects between my boss and I. Available time has also dictated the size and extent of undertakings. I recently rebuilt/redesigned a motor and gearbox mount for a conveyor belt as well as fabricated and installed brackets for a belt cleaning system. These were things that had to get done ASAP and really couldn't be done by a contractor without major cost within the timeline and requirements. Another project not concerning this welder, but one I rented and had the PPE (and "confidence") to utilize was welding up a cracked air manifold- basically air tank on a piece of equipment (that is located well away from personnel and outside). Basically learned stick welding on the spot with 6011 and an engine drive. Ground out the crack and welded it up- no signs of cracking and no leaks as of yet.

From a safety standpoint we only process non-hazardous (non-flammable incl.) materials. I am aware of the potential for dust explosions etc as well as other hazards around the work sitefrom my experience in the Oil and Gas industry (5 years as an inspector). I do what is required from a common sense standpoint for fire watch, etc and should wear a respirator more often than I do.

I think I covered most everything. I've learned a lot in the past year plus and will continue to. Thanks for the response!

 

[Stuart in MN]

I see you're in East Bethel. I took a welding class at the MCTC (Minneapolis Community and Technical College) in downtown Minneapolis some years ago that was very good. It was a continuing education class, one night a week, that ran for 8 or 10 weeks if I remember correctly. The instructor's day job was welding at the nuclear power plant in Becker, so he knew his stuff. It was mostly MIG but we did a little TIG as well. Each week there was about 30 minutes of classroom time, followed by a couple hours in the shop actually welding so there was a lot of hands on experience.


I'd highly recommend it. One problem is the MCTC website is difficult to navigate, so you may have better luck simply calling them to see if they are offering a similar class this summer or fall.


edited to add: Whoops, I didn't notice until after I posted that you started this thread a couple years ago...in any case, I'd still recommend the classes at MCTC if you want more instruction, or if you have some other employee that needs to come up to speed on welding.

 

[customh]

I see you're in East Bethel. I took a welding class at the MCTC (Minneapolis Community and Technical College) in downtown Minneapolis [SNIP] or if you have some other employee that needs to come up to speed on welding.

Thanks Stuart. No problem on the "late" post. We did look into classes at the time and couldn't find much that was reasonable so I appreciate the lead. Used the welder on the cart for the first time yesterday- a cover for a machine we were modifying needed handles- and will need gussets now. The projects never end. Especially when poorly designed/engineered equipment is used.