Welding bottle question

[Dreamer1975]

Hello all,
I’m starting a S-10 frame swap for my 49 Chevy which will include extending the frame in the process. I bought myself a Lincoln 140 welder to use for this project and what ever crazy Idea I decide in the process. I’m new to welding but want to go the gas route rathe than flux. I called air gas about a tank and they want 470 for a filled 80 gal tank. Problem is I don’t know what size tank I should get or much about them if I went to buy used which would be much cheaper. What size bottle would you suggest for a newbie and if I do buy used what do I need to look for. I’d hate to buy a bottle and then go to get it filled and find out it cannot be or needs test which I’m sure there is a cost to as well.
Thanks

 

[mike93lx]

You need to do a lot of practice before doing anything on a frame. Lots.

And then get a bigger welder.

To start, pretty much any size will work. You want something that will last for the projects but is also a size that works for how you move the setup around.

I'd strongly recommend taking at least one class to learn the basics

 

[Wrench97]

Mine is a 80 cu/ft bottle, I bought it years ago for about what I would have spent on 2 years of leasing one.
40 cu/ft is about the smallest I would consider for a home shop where you primarily use it nights and weekends.

 

[yatg]

$470?
for an 80?
They must really like you.

I got a 150cf of 75/25 in May 2020 for about $250.

Any other gas dealers around?

Amazon, 125cf, 75/25, $375

Amazon.com

 

[Renegade1LI]

Hello all,
I’m starting a S-10 frame swap for my 49 Chevy which will include extending the frame in the process. I bought myself a Lincoln 140 welder to use for this project and what ever crazy Idea I decide in the process. I’m new to welding but want to go the gas route rathe than flux. I called air gas about a tank and they want 470 for a filled 80 gal tank. Problem is I don’t know what size tank I should get or much about them if I went to buy used which would be much cheaper. What size bottle would you suggest for a newbie and if I do buy used what do I need to look for. I’d hate to buy a bottle and then go to get it filled and find out it cannot be or needs test which I’m sure there is a cost to as well.
Thanks

From zero experience to welding a frame? I wouldn't take that chance, sub it out to someone that can. With that said it's great to learn to weld, a little bigger multiprocess machine would have been a better choice or straight stick to start. I would look to take a welding class or two, learn the basics so you don't waste time or money. is air gas selling or renting you the tank? Usually you pay a deposit plus the first fill & you need to specify what mix you will need.

 

[bp460]

Buying used will definitely save you some money. Just make sure the cylinder you buy has an Airgas logo or sticker on it. Tanks need to be retested and certified every 10 years. If you have an Airgas cylinder, they will just exchange it for no extra charge when you pay for a refill.

-Brad

 

[nadogail]

Purchasing your tank will eliminate Rental Charges.

 

[getawheel]

Rent an 80; and when you determine either you have a natural gift for welding or are clueless as it appears, then you will know the route and can better decide on how to spend.

 

[toyotadriver]

You can get a full bottle on Cyberweld's site. I can get a full bottle shipped to my house cheaper via Cyberweld than I can purchase a full bottle locally. Substantially cheaper. I can exchange it locally pretty reasonably though.

 

[getawheel]

Cyberweld ships full? Or you buy the bottle and give it to Airgas for a swap?

 

[PoorUB]

Yeah, I want to know how it works to buy a tank on line and refill, or exchange locally?

 

[Von Psycho]

I bought my tank quite a few years ago, when I run out I go to the same welding supply shop and they exchange
for a full tank and pay only for gas.
I leave my empty in my vehicle so they can see I didn't just grab an empty from just inside their gate.
They handle the empty faster than me anyway.
File your original receipt for the tank you purchase.

 

[getawheel]

You get an empty tank and leave it to be filled for a week or so or swap it. Just wondering the reply as to any other confirmed method. I have purchased a few tanks 'online', they ship empty. The advantage is you can prove you own it to Airgas over 120CF seems to be where they GAF.

 

[Monza Harry]

Rental/lease you pay an annual fee so you never worry about your tank and you pay less for your refills where as owner bottles (here any way) refills are more than rental refills ( both are exchanges actually) but (or used to?) include any re-certs etc. As to size all owner bottles here were tiny so frequent refills pushed me to lease and keep my own as back-ups, so I shouldn't ever be gasless. Harry

 

[Showkey]

Yeah, I want to know how it works to buy a tank on line and refill, or exchange locally?

Not well in some areas……………
Especially as the tank age and go out of certification ….it’s not like the Ace Hardware were they just trade your expired 20# propane tank because their vender just recitifies the tanks.

 

[GaryM909]

Keep your eyes peeled for a used bottle or two. 80 CF or 125 CF. I have a couple that I had to get recertified. I just had a 125 done last week. $50 for recert and $60 to fill with argon. I also have leased bottles which I will be turning in later this year.

 

[jagboy69]

Gas bottle are STUPID MONEY right now. I just added another 125cf bottle. The cheapest route I found was buy it online and pay the 70bucks to ship it to you. Take it in to AirASS and have them put you in the rotation for some mig mix. Going the used route is another option, just be damn sure what you buy off the street doesn't actually belong to the gas shop. Or else when you bring it in, they'll say, "Thanks! We've been looking for that serial number!"

If you have a ton of welding work, you might rent a big 250 or 300cf... But they absolutely **** to move around! Don't rent a small bottle, you'll lose your shirt. btw, I bought my bottle here. https://www.weldingforless.com/collections/welding-cylinders

 

[PCustoms]

Just some perspective, I laid my airgas lease for my 125cuft bottle this morning, $102.29.

I go through about 1 tank a year, sometimes a bit more when I was selling some product.

Would have to go back and find what the last swap (gas fill) cost me, I think around $80.

Amazon sells a 125 full for $365 shipped.

 

[sweetk30]

140 name brand welder will work . Did my k30 1ton 4x4 plow truck frame 4 years ago . But you need to know what your doing for sure and prep it good .

That bottle price is crazy but the welding / gas supply prices are going up a lot .

Check used bottles on sale sites like fb market i see them a decent amout of the time for sale around me .

These mail order bottles my local welding shop guy told me watch out on them . If they dont have the stamped in dot #'s and other required marks then dont buy as they wont be swapped or filled by lots of places .

He also told me that now lots of shops or companys if you own your own there charging a 1 time a year per bottle on your list a maint fee to cover the hydro testing since for years we never get charged it . . Yaa it ***** but 1 20.00 fee per bottle a year and gets you good for 365 days of no fee no matter the # of bottles of that size and gas type swapped is not bad .

 

[jar944]

My 330 is a lot cheaper (per cuft) to fill than my 125.

 

[58Yeoman]

Airgas in my area is way more expensive than anyone else for propane, don't know about other gases, but I'm sure it would be the same. I sold my oxy/acetelyne setup last year, as I no longer used it. I had bought it in the 70's with the tanks, and my supplier would just swap bottles, charging me a recert fee if needed. It usually needed it, as I never used much gas, so it would be years before refilling. My supplier would not unload or load my bottle in my truck, as it was lying down. They would set the bottle next to the truck, then let me load it up myself.

 

[Bucko]

I bought a filled bottle off Amazon that was cheaper than an empty one anywhere local but that was years ago. I have no first hand experience with AirGas but heard many bad stories so I found a local shop that was cheaper than them and would either fill mine or just exchange it. I went the exchange route so I would not need to make multiple trips.

One thing to consider is refill cost. Its not like regular gas where you pay so much per gallon no matter the size tank. You will pay more per gallon the smaller the bottle so bigger is better for refill if you have the space for it. Also my first welder was the Lincoln EZ MIG 140 and the regulator that comes with it was ****. It seemed to flow way too much gas and was non-adjustable with no guage. I threw a basic harbor freight with guages on it and had no issues.

 

[CraigStu]

Be sure whatever tank you buy will be refilled by your local welding gas place. 2 years ago we moved and I brought my argon tank w/ me. Went to get it filled/exchanged at the closest place and he wouldn't do it. My tank is from Roberts Oxygen and I now drive 35 minutes to get it exchanged. Last summer I took my welder to a friends house in NC and ran out so we went to the closest place. They would not exchange it. They were really weird about it but finally said there is a Roberts Oxygen maybe 6-8 miles away. We went there and had no problem. I don't understand it but having it happen twice in 2 different states says it wasn't just one local guy w/ a burr in his pants.

 

[Dreamer1975]

Thanks for all the info folks, I understand what I am doing s probably biting off more than I can chew but we all started somewhere. I may end up subbing the frame work but I will learn how to weld during the process.

 

[liliysdad]

Don't let them scare you off, you sill be fine. Learning is the process....hot rodding is doing it yourself, not subbing it out.

With YouTube and the internet, you can teach yourself anything. If there is a Vo-Tech close, you can take a short term night class and learn. Or, grab a 12 pack and some scrap metal and get after it. Its not that hard to learn, and to get good enough to do what you want to do. That 110 machine will do the vast majority of what you need to do in that sort of swap. Most of what you will be doing is bracketry work, not critical frame welding. Even at that, an S10 frame isn't exactly 1/2" plate. You will be fine.

As for the bottle, I lease my 80 from Airgas. It costs me $75 a year, and about $50 a fill. I should buy my own, and I will eventually, but his is pretty pain free for me at this time.

 

[brownbagg]

the airgas in my area will only swap airgas bottles, so if you buy one from other supplier, they might not service it.

 

[liliysdad]

the airgas in my area will only swap airgas bottles, so if you buy one from other supplier, they might not service it.

Airgas here has no such issue. A bottle is a bottle as long as you are the owner. If you bring a local competitor bottle in and they don't know you, they will call and make sure you aren't skipping a lease. If not, you are good to go.

 

[toyotadriver]

Cyberweld ships full? Or you buy the bottle and give it to Airgas for a swap?

I have not yet ordered a bottle from them but according to their site, they will ship filled. It's not a hazardous (flammable or oxidizing) gas so shipping isn't a big deal. In my case when I buy a larger Argon (C25) bottle, I'll buy it full and then exchange it for a full one once I empty it. I won't get as new of a bottle with exchange but they take care of the hydro testing (every 5 years) so it's worth it.

 

[toyotadriver]

Every place local to me that sells welding gases will either sell a full bottle or exchange your empty for a full bottle. Part of what you are paying for is the hydro cert every 5 years. I SCUBA dive and my tanks have to be hydro tested every 5 years. I take them to a local place that does bottles. The place I use does both SCUBA tanks as well as welding tanks. Costs me about $25 per SCUBA tank. High pressure gas tanks all need to be certified every 5 years as well. My welding tanks I just take to the welding supply place and swap them for full tanks.

 

[pcmeiners]

"But they absolutely **** to move around! Don't rent a small bottle, you'll lose your shirt. "
I am 71 and get 330s to the supply house for refills, yes they are a bit tough to handle but so is running out of gas with smaller bottles and much higher fill prices My supplier sells empty 330s for $300

 

[crasher98]

Thanks for all the info folks, I understand what I am doing s probably biting off more than I can chew but we all started somewhere. I may end up subbing the frame work but I will learn how to weld during the process.

Dreamer, I used to live in that area (Morris IL), and I took a night class in welding at Joliet Junior College and really liked it. This is an intro class to a real-deal 2-yr welding program for people going into the profession where the students learn every type of welding in every possible position and permutation, so this intro class was serious business: it was basic stick welding, but taught by a guy who had retired from Cat and he had us get all of the gear, even including the little hat, and made us do good welds (or at least try) two nights a week, 4+ hrs/night. Since it was a night class it had more than a few "lifelong learners", artists, dilettantes, welding-curious, etc., but he didn't discriminate - everyone had to lay their dimes down like they were working on something important and mission critical and not the donated scrap plate that we were actually disfiguring.

I've never done any welding since then so I can't advise you on getting bottles and whatnot (sounds like a pita), but taking a class like that at least gave me two things: (1) a better understanding of what I don't know - worth every penny of the tuition because the most dangerous people in the world are the ones who don't know what they don't know; and (2) an appreciation for high-quality welding and the ability to spot it in the wild. I was working in a chemical plant at the time, and sometimes I'd be roaming around and see some perfect weld on e.g., a bend in a stainless pipe - that the guy probably had to do hanging upside down from his boots too - and I'd think, damn, I wish I could do that!

 

[rustyzman]

Take a drive to both Praxair in Elk Grove Village and to Terrace Supply in Wheeling before you buy. Talk to them in person. The Airgas dealers in this area have been very much less than helpful to the individual or low use industrial user in my experience.

Praxair treated me great and my buddy has used Terrace for many years. Terrace deals with small users all the time.

No idea what current prices are because I bought all mine long ago.

80CF or 125CF is what I would go with. You will be filling a small tank way too much if you do any amount of welding.

 

[PhantomEB]

Definitely take courses at the Junior Colleges, etc!

My buddy‘s GF is in a local program aimed at women who want to get into the trades. Currently she is wrapping up her Welding portion, and actually prompted him to finish off a welding table so she could play after hours.

This has made me want to get back and practice my welding to the point I am comfortable to lay down a bead at work.

 

[farmall400]

Years ago airgas had a deal for a lifetime lease on gas cylinders. I got a 330 cf for my house. I can't remember how much I had to pay up front but I don't think it was more than a hundred bucks. I called them 2 years ago looking to get another bottle and they said they stopped that program. It was a pretty good deal. I lease a 150? from them and I think after fees it's over a hundred a year.

 

[DGersic]

Hello all,
I’m starting a S-10 frame swap for my 49 Chevy which will include extending the frame in the process. I bought myself a Lincoln 140 welder to use for this project and what ever crazy Idea I decide in the process. I’m new to welding but want to go the gas route rathe than flux. I called air gas about a tank and they want 470 for a filled 80 gal tank. Problem is I don’t know what size tank I should get or much about them if I went to buy used which would be much cheaper. What size bottle would you suggest for a newbie and if I do buy used what do I need to look for. I’d hate to buy a bottle and then go to get it filled and find out it cannot be or needs test which I’m sure there is a cost to as well.
Thanks

You’re in Illinois. Find a Farm & Fleet. They have the least expensive tanks around.

 

[DGersic]

Thanks for all the info folks, I understand what I am doing s probably biting off more than I can chew but we all started somewhere. I may end up subbing the frame work but I will learn how to weld during the process.

You may want to do all of the measuring, cutting, and prep, then “tack” it together. Have somebody experienced do the final weld on the frame. That’s what I’d do. I can stick metal things together, but I don’t trust myself to do anything structural on a frame.

 

[brownbagg]

airgas is high, but there are others you can take a tank to and they will fill while waiting, alot cheaper than airgas, the one good thing about airgas, they swap tanks, so you will never have to test the tank

 

[speed bump]

Call around and see what other people offer. Locally we have one supplier (AWG) that will exchange bottles from anyone and is cheaper for someone without an account. I've exchanged probably 5 used bottles and all they say is what do you want back?

I would recommend getting a 125 CF tank.

As far as a frame with a 140. It really isn't that hard. Practice until you are steady at running a bead. Groove the two pieces where you plan to splice. Space the pieces about an 1/8 apart, set the 140 to max, and go. Grind out the root on the backside and repeat laying it in as hot as possible.

 

[ATC]

I've always bought my tanks online, so I own them, and then just take them in to have them exchanged on the spot. 80cu-ft Oxygen, Acetylene, and a welding tank. I did buy a 330cf tank a while ago, but no one around here will touch it because it's not leased. Anything over 125cf is a leased tank no matter what to the shops around here.

Airgas is a bunch of a-holes....they only care about big contracts and companies leasing their tanks. They don't like dealing with the little guy. Arcet is the only other option off the top of my head. Haven't used them yet, but will next time. It's been at least 6 years since I've had one exchanged.

 

[TractorJeff]

An 80 is Plent Big Enough!
This is Garage Journal (Go BIG or Go Home).
I have a neighbor that bought an 80 from me for a welding project of his.
It was a LOT of tubing Welds.
2 years later, I was over there to weld something for him and his bottle is still over 1000lbs!