Welding help/advice, My first fab.

[jeff000]

So I built a little bench with a enclosed storage for my ammo in it. Used a 120V Mig with 75/25 gas and 0.030 solid wire.
All the steel is 1/8 except the top plate, it is 1/4.

I watched some YouTube videos to learn. Just looking for a little advice.

This is the completed bench, it's 2x2, and built the same as the longer bench I got for free from work.

This is the square tubing to the top plate. I think this looks great.

Another weld between the square tube and the plate, this one is more on the plate than the tube though.

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This is what most of the welds look like, all a little crooked, hard to see whats going on.

They all ground down into a solid metal looking part.

Even though some welds were a little gross...

And this one needed a second pass, lol

And these things made everything very easy!

The welds that were a nice 90 or nice and flat were much easier than the rounded edge to the plate. But I would love to hear what people think and any tips.

 

[owenst7]

If those are your first welds, I'd say the main thing you should worry about is getting a lighter shade lens so you can see what you're doing. I only weld with a 9 for that kind of work, but it is totally a personal preference thing.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you need to work on already. Best advice I can give you is to spend more time challenging yourself.

 

[Ruger_556]

If those are your first welds, I'd say the main thing you should worry about is getting a lighter shade lens so you can see what you're doing. I only weld with a 9 for that kind of work, but it is totally a personal preference thing.

Find a shade you like is some of the best advice I can't weld any lower than a shade 11 or I end up squinting and can't see anything anyway.

 

[owenst7]

Find a shade you like is some of the best advice I can't weld any lower than a shade 11 or I end up squinting and can't see anything anyway.

I guess I should have phrased it as "find a shade where you can see what you are doing". I assumed his was too dark for him, since most of the hoods in stores are 12s, which for me with MIG, is like Ray Charles trying to weld lol. You should be able to clearly see all the material in the vicinity of your weld, not just the arc.

It doesn't look you're having an issue with it, but 110V wire feed units typically need to run very slow wire speed. A lot of time on forums I see people giving advice, but they don't seem to realize that (likely because they are used to bigger machines). I usually only run mine around 10%-20% of max for almost anything.

 

[steel 35]

But I would love to hear what people think and any tips.

Don't weld on or around the box after putting ammo in it.

I Think you should come practice at my place, I have a few projects that I haven't gotten around to yet.

 

[Kevin54]

If those are your first welds, I'd say the main thing you should worry about is getting a lighter shade lens so you can see what you're doing. I only weld with a 9 for that kind of work, but it is totally a personal preference thing.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you need to work on already. Best advice I can give you is to spend more time challenging yourself.

Find a shade you like is some of the best advice I can't weld any lower than a shade 11 or I end up squinting and can't see anything anyway.

How light of a shade do they make? One of my problems with welding is that after I get going, I can't see where I'm at. I was practicing on some metal a while back, and in 6" I bet I was 3/8" off of the line

Heck, maybe I could learn to weld if I could see. I don't know what number of my lens is, but it is real dark. That's one thing I would like to do is learn to weld.

For the OP....if those were my welds, I be happier than a 16 year old with a pocket full of money in a whorehouse.

 

[jeff000]

Thanks everyone I was hoping I was going ok, I just don't know what cold welds or bad welds look like.

I'm going to try and paint it tonight, and then I'll take another picture.

If those are your first welds, I'd say the main thing you should worry about is getting a lighter shade lens so you can see what you're doing. I only weld with a 9 for that kind of work, but it is totally a personal preference thing.

It sounds like you have a good idea of what you need to work on already. Best advice I can give you is to spend more time challenging yourself.

I used a couple pieces of scrap I grabbed from works shop, so I put down maybe 18" of weld before I started this table.

I did learn not to practice with unistrut, why is that so hard to weld? (not galvanised) I was getting pretty frustrated before I used two just steel plates.

My mask is a shade 12, I didn't even know there was different ones when I bought this one. It was just cheap, auto tinting and had good reviews. But no darkness adjustability.

You should be able to clearly see all the material in the vicinity of your weld, not just the arc.

It doesn't look you're having an issue with it, but 110V wire feed units typically need to run very slow wire speed. A lot of time on forums I see people giving advice, but they don't seem to realize that (likely because they are used to bigger machines). I usually only run mine around 10%-20% of max for almost anything.

Sometimes I would be welding at just the right angle that I would be able to see what was going on still, but most were almost blind outside of the puddle.

So if I slow the wire down, it'll allow it to get hotter in the area, then just move at a speed where I get a slight bump of weld, but not a worm right? I had the speed up at like 75% (what the charge in the door said) cause I thought any slower and the weld would want to come back into the gun or something.

Don't weld on or around the box after putting ammo in it.

I Think you should come practice at my place, I have a few projects that I haven't gotten around to yet.

I'll probably weld on and for sure around it, lol. But I'm not worried, it's sealed up pretty good, and I won't have primers pressed up against the top plate. I wonder if a loose round would go through 1/8" even?

If I trusted my welds more I would build myself a bumper for my jeep. Might have to tack it and get a welder buddy to actually weld it for me, lol.

How light of a shade do they make? One of my problems with welding is that after I get going, I can't see where I'm at. I was practicing on some metal a while back, and in 6" I bet I was 3/8" off of the line

Heck, maybe I could learn to weld if I could see. I don't know what number of my lens is, but it is real dark. That's one thing I would like to do is learn to weld.

For the OP....if those were my welds, I be happier than a 16 year old with a pocket full of money in a whorehouse.

That is my problem too, I was kind of just using the edge of the tube with my hand to feel where I was. Seems with some googling they make like down to shade 3, but seems to be more for cutting and torch welding.
Your lens is probably a 12 like mine is.

I found this one
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200485271_200485271
it goes down to a 9, and is real cheap with great reviews.

 

[saceone]

if there's one thing I know about welding ( and that's probably the ONLY thing I know about welding) is that you can't cheap out on a good helmet. I got a lincoln adjustable and a mastercraft adjustable and it's great for DIY guys like myself that weld inside and outside.

 

[NordicSaab]

All of your welds look too cold to me... Some look good but with a mig welder you should reduce your feed and increase power.

The welds that look dirty are because of your gas feed. Either you have it set too low or you need to hold the welder closer to perpandicular.

Also remember with shielding gas a fan can really mess up your welding. It will blow away your gas.

Shoot me a message if you have any further questions.

Experiance: MIG, TIG, OXY ACE.

 

[MoonRise]

Not bad looking, for the most part. A bit 'cold' looking on the weld toes, especially onto the 1/4" plate. 1/4" steel GMAW with a 120V machine is usually really-really pushing the workpiece thickness / output power limits of the machine. FCAW with the small machines can usually let you weld a little bit thicker workpieces, because of the way the FCAW process works compared to GMAW. FCAW usually is a bit 'hotter' than short-circuit transfer mode GMAW (which is all you would be doing with a 120V machine running GMAW with C25 anyway).

Step #1 when welding, is to clean the workpieces. Remove all dirt, oil, grease, paint, etc ,etc.

Step #2 when welding, is related to Step #1. Clean the metal down to clean, shiny metal. That black on the steel is mill scale, which is a form of iron oxide.

You don't weld paint or grease or iron oxide or anything else that is not clean shiny metal.

You weld metal, so make sure that all you have in the welding zone is metal.

(note: for anyone about to jump in and say that you -can- weld dirty, rusty steel, my reply is "Sort of". Some welding processes can 'tolerate' a cetain amount of crud and still produce 'acceptable' welds (SMAW with something like 6010/6011, for instance) some processes can tolerate almost no crud (GTAW, for instance) )

And when welding, as mentioned, you need to be able to see what you are doing. A #12 is probably a bit too dark for wire-feed welding (GMAW or FCAW) below ~200 amps welding current. A #10 or #11 is usually adequate darkness for a small MIG machine weld output power level. That's what's nice about an adjustable autodark helmet. Set it dark and start welding a practice bead, then turn the adjustment knob down until you can see the puddle of molten metal (steel in this case) and not just the bright arc but yet not be 'overpowered' by the arc brightness itself.

Did I mention to watch the puddle of molten metal, and not just the bright arc? Watch the arc dig into the workpiece metal and the filler melt in and fill in where the parent material melted and give your desired final weld bead. Adjust the voltage and WFS to give the desired output power level and adjust the travel speed to fill in the joint 'properly'.

And when you get to the 'end' of your weld bead, do a "backstep" where you pause at the end of the bead and then travel back over the bead a little bit in order to fill in and not create an ending crater on the weld bead. Essential when welding aluminum and good practice wehn welding anything else too. Crater = bad.

Also, on corners, try not to start or stop on the corner itself. Wrap the weld around the corners. There is enough stress concentration going on in a corner already without adding weld bead starts/stops in there as well.

When you have something like the rounded edges of the square tubing, make sure you get the arc and puddle down into the bottom of the joint and don't just lay weld metal up at the 'surface'.

Practice, practice, practice.

 

[Zeke]

Whatever you did on the first weld, keep doing it.

 

[EOC_Jason]

Looks better than my welds!

 

[bullnerd]

Like everyone else said ,ya gotta be able to see. I have the Lincoln helmet, very nice for the price.

Also, how is your vision at welding distance? They make little magnifying lenses (cheater lense) that you can put in your helmet to zoom in a little, makes a big difference.

 

[zkling]

How light of a shade do they make? One of my problems with welding is that after I get going, I can't see where I'm at. I was practicing on some metal a while back, and in 6" I bet I was 3/8" off of the line

A shade 8 or 9 is about the lightest you would want for the mig process. You could try a gold lens, which is what I prefer. Also don't overlook the importance of ambient lighting while welding. Though many folks seem to think welding produces it's own light, having enough light in the surrounding work environment can really help to see what is going on.

 

[owenst7]

Thanks everyone I was hoping I was going ok, I just don't know what cold welds or bad welds look like.

I'm going to try and paint it tonight, and then I'll take another picture.



I used a couple pieces of scrap I grabbed from works shop, so I put down maybe 18" of weld before I started this table.

I did learn not to practice with unistrut, why is that so hard to weld? (not galvanised) I was getting pretty frustrated before I used two just steel plates.

My mask is a shade 12, I didn't even know there was different ones when I bought this one. It was just cheap, auto tinting and had good reviews. But no darkness adjustability.




Sometimes I would be welding at just the right angle that I would be able to see what was going on still, but most were almost blind outside of the puddle.

So if I slow the wire down, it'll allow it to get hotter in the area, then just move at a speed where I get a slight bump of weld, but not a worm right? I had the speed up at like 75% (what the charge in the door said) cause I thought any slower and the weld would want to come back into the gun or something.




I'll probably weld on and for sure around it, lol. But I'm not worried, it's sealed up pretty good, and I won't have primers pressed up against the top plate. I wonder if a loose round would go through 1/8" even?

If I trusted my welds more I would build myself a bumper for my jeep. Might have to tack it and get a welder buddy to actually weld it for me, lol.




That is my problem too, I was kind of just using the edge of the tube with my hand to feel where I was. Seems with some googling they make like down to shade 3, but seems to be more for cutting and torch welding.
Your lens is probably a 12 like mine is.

I found this one
http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200485271_200485271
it goes down to a 9, and is real cheap with great reviews.

That northern hood is garbage. I bought it a few years ago thinking it would be nicer than the HF auto dark. It worked for a couple days and now it just flickers.

On the other hand, the HF unit I've used as a spare for years works great, although it doesn't cover the top of my head well (remedied with a piece of leather). I currently use the save phace I'm wearing in my profile pic. It has a 180* viewing area and I am very happy with it after three years.

Wire speed
My experience with 110 units is that its best to figure out what wire speed is too slow to maintain a constant arc. Then, add just enough to give you a smooth, consistent arc. Now adjust your hand speed to match the welder. Also, you pretty much need full power on anything heavier than .120", but they will do fine on .250" if you know what you're doing and you're not in a big hurry.

Lighting is a big thing, otherwise you're basically staring at a bright flashlight in a dark room. I do think a 12 is probably too dark for what you're doing though. I'd try a 10 and see what your eyes tell you from there. You can't hurt your eye tissue with too light of a lens, but you can definitely get a headache and have difficulty seeing your work.

 

[zengarage]

I agree about the ambient light. You don't need to add light but if you think about where you put your head and which way you are looking at the weld can make a big difference in what you can see just because you are not blocking the light from the room. Also think about the way that you are positioning the gun. If you are doing square or rectangle tube together you want to be pointing a certain way(I'll let you figure out which way). Doing a little planning can go along way with the way your welds look. Also make sure that when you are doing those t-joints that you are getting your puddle down in the "groove" and not just bridging from one to the other if you care about strength.

 

[Bobhdus]

I have a little HTP 120 mig and its a great welder for small things. Along with what everyone else said, your doing good. I didn't read every reply here but some things worth mentioning or that maybe was already mentioned is that with smaller 120 migs, you may need to correct polarity. Flux core runs opposite polarity of normal gmaw. You can also get smaller dia wire closer to something like .024 (I think...), and also my personal preference is to "pull" my weld. Most people "push". I think pushing is supposed to be better for penetration but I usually pull on steel, and push on Aluminum. Never had a problem with it and its also easier for me to see the puddle. One last thing, I couldn't tell if you did it but you could bevel your **** joints for better penetration, especially if your going to grind them flush. Good luck!

 

[duhicky]

take a piece of soap stone and run it down your intended weld zone. Then you will have a nice white line to follow and your confidence will increase because you know where your going. Soap stone will burn off and for 99% of what you weld or anybody the soap stone will not cause any porosity or other reject. We teach apprentices this trick and use it on pressure welds. Your doing good and keep having fun!!!!

 

[AndyA]

.... Also don't overlook the importance of ambient lighting while welding. Though many folks seem to think welding produces it's own light, having enough light in the surrounding work environment can really help to see what is going on.

+1

If I'm having trouble seeing I break out the 1000 watt halogen lights. Shine these on the work and you can use a shade dark enough to 'tame the arc' but still see where you're going.

 

[J.A.Varela]

Go to Welding Web and post.Mechanics are, for the most part. hack welders. I know because I'm a hack auto mechanic but I'm a real welder.The guys at Welding Web are welders and the guys at Practical Machinist are machinists. You don't go to a taco stand looking for a good pizza.

You're going to do fine. The advice already given is sound. Your machine doesn't have enough *** for 1/4 and, in all reality, is not proper for 3/16" without serious prep.Consider it a 1/8" or 10 gauge rig.

The top of your project(cool BTW) isn't going anywhere but it's more of a caulk joint than a weld.Have a look at the inside of the box.

 

[jeff000]

Not bad looking, for the most part. A bit 'cold' looking on the weld toes, especially onto the 1/4" plate. 1/4" steel GMAW with a 120V machine is usually really-really pushing the workpiece thickness / output power limits of the machine. FCAW with the small machines can usually let you weld a little bit thicker workpieces, because of the way the FCAW process works compared to GMAW. FCAW usually is a bit 'hotter' than short-circuit transfer mode GMAW (which is all you would be doing with a 120V machine running GMAW with C25 anyway).

Step #1 when welding, is to clean the workpieces. Remove all dirt, oil, grease, paint, etc ,etc.

Step #2 when welding, is related to Step #1. Clean the metal down to clean, shiny metal. That black on the steel is mill scale, which is a form of iron oxide.

You don't weld paint or grease or iron oxide or anything else that is not clean shiny metal.

You weld metal, so make sure that all you have in the welding zone is metal.

(note: for anyone about to jump in and say that you -can- weld dirty, rusty steel, my reply is "Sort of". Some welding processes can 'tolerate' a cetain amount of crud and still produce 'acceptable' welds (SMAW with something like 6010/6011, for instance) some processes can tolerate almost no crud (GTAW, for instance) )

And when welding, as mentioned, you need to be able to see what you are doing. A #12 is probably a bit too dark for wire-feed welding (GMAW or FCAW) below ~200 amps welding current. A #10 or #11 is usually adequate darkness for a small MIG machine weld output power level. That's what's nice about an adjustable autodark helmet. Set it dark and start welding a practice bead, then turn the adjustment knob down until you can see the puddle of molten metal (steel in this case) and not just the bright arc but yet not be 'overpowered' by the arc brightness itself.

Did I mention to watch the puddle of molten metal, and not just the bright arc? Watch the arc dig into the workpiece metal and the filler melt in and fill in where the parent material melted and give your desired final weld bead. Adjust the voltage and WFS to give the desired output power level and adjust the travel speed to fill in the joint 'properly'.

And when you get to the 'end' of your weld bead, do a "backstep" where you pause at the end of the bead and then travel back over the bead a little bit in order to fill in and not create an ending crater on the weld bead. Essential when welding aluminum and good practice wehn welding anything else too. Crater = bad.

Also, on corners, try not to start or stop on the corner itself. Wrap the weld around the corners. There is enough stress concentration going on in a corner already without adding weld bead starts/stops in there as well.

When you have something like the rounded edges of the square tubing, make sure you get the arc and puddle down into the bottom of the joint and don't just lay weld metal up at the 'surface'.

Practice, practice, practice.

Thanks

What does a cold weld mean? Is that just not enough penetration? I didn't realise cleaning the metal would make such a big difference, but I will make sure to do it next time.

I had a hard time with the corners since I couldn't see, lol.

Like everyone else said ,ya gotta be able to see. I have the Lincoln helmet, very nice for the price.

Also, how is your vision at welding distance? They make little magnifying lenses (cheater lense) that you can put in your helmet to zoom in a little, makes a big difference.

I have good vision, but sounds like a cheater might be nice anyways. They are cheap if nothing else.

A shade 8 or 9 is about the lightest you would want for the mig process. You could try a gold lens, which is what I prefer. Also don't overlook the importance of ambient lighting while welding. Though many folks seem to think welding produces it's own light, having enough light in the surrounding work environment can really help to see what is going on.

I have tons of light, and could always see lots of detail through the mask, just too dark when welding, lol. I was going to try a halgen, but even the sun just seemed to make shadows.

Go to Welding Web and post.Mechanics are, for the most part. hack welders. I know because I'm a hack auto mechanic but I'm a real welder.The guys at Welding Web are welders and the guys at Practical Machinist are machinists. You don't go to a taco stand looking for a good pizza.

You're going to do fine. The advice already given is sound. Your machine doesn't have enough *** for 1/4 and, in all reality, is not proper for 3/16" without serious prep.Consider it a 1/8" or 10 gauge rig.

The top of your project(cool BTW) isn't going anywhere but it's more of a caulk joint than a weld.Have a look at the inside of the box.

My machine only lists 3/16 as the thickest, but I figured it would hold the top solid. When I did my first weld (about an inch long) I attached a square tube to the top plate, and didn't realize the weld would pull it in like it did, with it still hot I thought my 3lb hammer would move it back where it needed to be, but no luck, needed to cut it off. So it must grab enough to hold.

But even welding the 1/8 parts I could see that the weld wasn't making it all the way though, and got both sides where I could (only a couple). I started with this table since I figured if it wasn't the best welds it probably wouldn't go anywhere still. lol

I'll have to keep my eyes open for a bigger machine I think.

 

[jeff000]

Painted it up and put it in it's place.
Just need a way to lock it still. Something that looks good, and not a pad lock.

Yes my vice is held on with a couple c clamps, lol. Needed to use it before I knew where I wanted it.

Thinking I should weld the two tops together. And I need something better to protect the metal, had a couple beers on there leave rust rings, lol.

 

[hackwelder]

I'm just a amateur/hobby welder myself but one of the best pieces of advice I've read is to pay attention to the sound when you are MIG welding, if you are doing it right it will sound about like bacon frying.

 

[riscoe]

Im not sure if its true for mig, but I noticed with my tig, if I get too close to those magnetic clamps, the magnetic field causes the arc to bend. The mig arc is probably confined to the wire/puddle interface, but maybe the gas envelope when charged by the arc is bending? I quit using the magnetic clamps and went back to mechanical clamps. That and a good quality auto-darkening helmet and glasses ( I'm 51, it was inevitable).

 

[king nero]

welding web is a great resource.
nice project.
I wouldn't weld both top plates together, in case you ever want to move/change lay-out / ...

 

[zkling]

Thinking I should weld the two tops together. And I need something better to protect the metal, had a couple beers on there leave rust rings, lol.

I'd be very careful welding those two tops together. If you aren't spot on with your fitup and heat control, it will cause them to warp, pretty significantly in the surrounding area.

I use johnsons past wax for things like that. Heat the can, rub it in, then buff it out.

 

[jeff000]

welding web is a great resource.
nice project.
I wouldn't weld both top plates together, in case you ever want to move/change lay-out / ...

I'd be very careful welding those two tops together. If you aren't spot on with your fitup and heat control, it will cause them to warp, pretty significantly in the surrounding area.

I use johnsons past wax for things like that. Heat the can, rub it in, then buff it out.

It's too light to not secure, I was thinking just a couple one inch welds to hold it.

 

[king nero]

can't you weld some tab plates on the underside of one tabletop, so that the other tabletop overlaps those tabs.
Then through-bolt (with countersunk bolts) them together.

In this case, I would say that welding isn't the best option available.

 

[jeff000]

can't you weld some tab plates on the underside of one tabletop, so that the other tabletop overlaps those tabs.
Then through-bolt (with countersunk bolts) them together.

In this case, I would say that welding isn't the best option available.

I like that idea, but welding at this point would kinda ****.

But I think if I threaded some holes and bolted from the underside, then just grind the bolts flat on the top it should hold.
On second look, I only have like like 3/8" of a lip on the one side, might have to weld a couple tabs to bolt into threaded holes on the other bench.

 

[MagnumForce]

I use a nine. Anyway getting a lot of soot around those welds, turn down your gas a bit. Not bad for just starting!

 

[1953mercury]

From my experience with a small machine you will get better penetration and a better overall result using .021-.023 wire. The smaller wire will allow you to get more heat into your weld. Mike

 

[MagnumForce]

I use a metal man from tsc professionally for fabbing at work. Have had it for 3 years now and it works awesome and it was under a hundred bucks and I don't freak out if I drop it or anything like I would with my speedglas that doesn't leave my garage because who wants to take a 400 dollar helmet to work unless it's your business. Honestly that metal man is as good as my speedglas, in fact I wish I never bought the speedglas.
I am state certified and wouldn't call myself a hack but in my job "good enough" is way better than "gorgeous, buy why did it take so long?"