Welding help needed for a cracked vise wives base.

[KZ1000J]

Please excuse my misspelling in subject line...this is not my wives vise but the swivel is cracked.

Picked up a Paramo #6 a few days ago with a crack in the swivel base. I know nothing of welding and I'm looking for one locally.

I don't know the lingo very good and just wondering what I should ask the welder to do. What kind of welding does this crack call for? I'm sure someone could lay a bead across the top and bottom and call it complete but can or should the weld be ground down, or smoothed out? I suppose the crack should be closed with a clamp before welding, at least that's what I'd do. What does this repair call for? What would be a fair price? Thank you in advance for the replies.

 

[Bobhdus]

If he's a knowledgeable welder he's going to put a groove in it himself and either use some kinda NiRod electrode for stick welding or he can braze it. If you take to him he should be able to guesstimate how long he will take. Personally, I'm $60hr, and if I think it will take 30 minutes, I'm going to quote double. Just to be on the safe side and charge less if done quicker (stick welding cast iron sometimes requires preheat/post-heat to reduce stress cracking) but this may not need it... I wouldn't think more than $30 though at a real weld shop...

I'm not saying that's what it's going to cost. I know a lot of guys that would just grind a bevel, and mig weld and grind smooth all in 10 mins... And it may hold for another 100 yrs doing that. You have to decide how much your willing to pay before deciding to buy a new or used swivel base or another Vise. Interested to see what they do and how much they charge. Let us know..

 

[kbs2244]

I do not know cost, but I would recomend brazing.
It should be strong enough and it will easier to file smooth than a weld.

 

[brianpgriset]

I agree with brazing. I also had a cracked vise, see thread:

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=113357

Still going strong on this vise.

 

[KZ1000J]

KBS & Brian,

The crack in the swivel base is a complete break. How can you "fill" a break when the molten material will just run out the other side? Also, shouldn't the gap be closed with a clamp before the brazing or welding? Like, setting a broken bone before putting on a cast?

Please, please...no lol or roflol replies...I know nothing of welding.

KZ

 

[CNGsaves]

Search is your friend . . . . Read all the prior GJ threads.

Use Google to dig into prior threads on GJ as vises have been brazed before.

Google > > > brazed vise site:garagejournal.com

 

[Zeke]

KBS & Brian,

The crack in the swivel base is a complete break. How can you "fill" a break when the molten material will just run out the other side? Also, shouldn't the gap be closed with a clamp before the brazing or welding? Like, setting a broken bone before putting on a cast?

Please, please...no lol or roflol replies...I know nothing of welding.

KZ

Have you ever sweat soldered copper? Brazing is similar. A weldor can build up with braze, but you are correct that the crack should be fluxed then clamped closed. A bevel will help keep the repair level. And it can be ground/sanded down. But, it will show.

Less obvious would be the nickle rod.

It's a small part but I'd preheat the thing so that you can move the torch around and **** the braze into the crack. If arc welding, preheat is mandatory as the weldor is going to apply instant heat with the arc. Not such a good thing on cold cast iron. You can take a metal tray and come cat litter with you to the shop. When the weldor is done, bury the piece in the litter and it will cool in a couple of hours slowly as it should. You can have it cooling on your way home rather than waiting around in the shop.

Also, look for trade schools with welding classes. This kind of work provides good training. under the instructor's supervision.

 

[mitusa]

Is that cast iron or cast steel? I'm not sure, but I would not think that it would be all that hard to repair......how much stress is going to be put to the base? Depending on what kinds of work you do, I suppose.

 

[KZ1000J]

Zeke,

I learned quite a bit from your reply, Thanks. I have brazed copper plumbing before and your description makes perfect sense. I like the idea of nickel rod and will research this method further. The break should be clamped closed! Hoorah! At least I got that right.

Mitusa, This looks like steel to me. I'm pretty sure it's steel. How much stress am I going to put it through? Probably very little but if I pass it on to someone else, I want it to be a strong repair ready for whatever may come along.

Bobhdus, Thanks for your input too...very helpful.

 

[Zeke]

Grind it. The sparks tell the story. Look on Youtube for examples of CI and CS sparks. Makes no difference. You have to have it welded or brazed.

 

[rsanter]

How about silver solder
Clean it up the best you can. Sand blasting is the best but a wire wheel will do
Clamp it together and put it on the BBQ to warm it up
Then get a propane torch and apply heat to the cracked area and then roush the silver solder to the crack. The silver solder should be drawn into the crack

Bob

 

[t100]

Tig welding with 99 Nickel rods, easy pissy. no pre-heat, no post-heat.

as for the filler rods, go get couple arc welding rods from your LWS, knock the flux off them, clean with scatchbrite.

 

[Ozwelder]

Please excuse my misspelling in subject line...this is not my wives vise but the swivel is cracked.

Picked up a Paramo #6 a few days ago with a crack in the swivel base. I know nothing of welding and I'm looking for one locally.

I don't know the lingo very good and just wondering what I should ask the welder to do. What kind of welding does this crack call for? I'm sure someone could lay a bead across the top and bottom and call it complete but can or should the weld be ground down, or smoothed out? I suppose the crack should be closed with a clamp before welding, at least that's what I'd do. What does this repair call for? What would be a fair price? Thank you in advance for the replies.

Hi KZ1000J,
Firstly ,without being on the spot I would say that your swivel ring is cast iron.
The majority of bench vises are cast iron, some are cast steel and some are fabricated.From the pic yours appears to be cast iron.
No problem cast iron or cast steel can be brazed.

If you have brazed before there's not a lot of difference to brazing C.Iron

Flip the base over and look for the sandy appearance of the sand mould, marks appearance.Cast iron and cast steel are moulded this way. To be sure, using your angle grinder, touch the base in a place where it won't cause problems. Cast iron will will throw a reddish spark and steel will throw a yellowish spark.


Secondly ,the the welding process you mentioned is well suited to that sort of repair. I am assuming you are using oxy acetylene as a LP gas set may not the heat volume to heat the cast up to brazing temperature. I have Oxy acetylene brazed this stuff, many, many times with no failures.

The filler of choice is a manganese bronze alloy filler rod. I would use the the type with bare wire and the flux separate in a plastic bottle not the bronze filler rod with the flux coating.

Depending on thickness of the swivel ring, a shallow groove may be all you need.
Align the pieces to be joined by holding them down on a flat plate with clamps or bolts. This step is necessary to prevent distortion whatever welding process used .Thw WT looks about 6mm (1/4") so accordingly, i would bevel that 2/3 rds of that. Ensure that gap is closed up before brazing and the sliding surface is pulled down flat to a thick base plate with bolts and /or clamps.

My advice comes from experience doing my apprenticeship welding cast iron 40 plus years ago.I have being doing such repairs as an apprentice, tradesman and a teacher over that time span.

Good luck with your project whatever way you decide to go.

Oz

 

[Ozwelder]

Here's some more reading about the same model of vice.

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=144487

Did you know there are several grades of cast iron?

Only four grades are weldable.

Personally I would not touch such a thin ring with nickel.From what I read these vices are rare as hens teeth. If the ring gets buggered up there are no spares around,so you get one go only, at it.

Referring back to cast steel bench vices, I have a 100mm (4") Russian one and have never seen another like it.

Oz

 

[KZ1000J]

Thanks OZ, quite a bit of good info there.

I feel, I have enough from everybody to get this job done. Thanks to all for the input.

Once I get the repair done, I'll reprise this thread with some repair pics.

KZ