welding off a china generator. help lessening the inrush

[1950coronet600hp]

so my first attempt welding off my 3300w generator didn't go so well, not enough amperage to start the weld, poor penetration blah blah blah. I do believe it was too small of an extension cord that caused this, but just in case its not i have an idea, since the output of the welder is dc (24v?) would i be able to add a couple of car stereo capacitors somewhere in the output to deliver extra oomph when needed? and if so, could they be placed after the regulator?

 

[sberry]

Just in case the thought didn't occur here but what machine are you trying to run?

 

[sberry]

Next question would be what cord and how long? What size wire or electrode?

 

[1950coronet600hp]

stats, allpower 3300w generator, 12ga 15a 25' extension cord, 115v flux core welder (i forget what kind it is) with .030 wire (i think) sorry stuck in the house recuperating from surgery and cant go look at my welder.. for anyone who wants to know as well, this is in my "off grid" shop aka "shantyrage". so once i get some time, the shop will get romex and outlets rated for 30a continuous which is more than the genny can put out, so hopefully thats all it is. but the leaky roof comes first... then onto the volt stuff... just wanted to see if a "plan b" was needed...

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Without the welder specs hard to say for sure.

Get the model and pist it here.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

that's going to be a while unfortunately, cant drive to go look, and my trailer blocks the door to the shop.. ;(

 

[theoldwizard1]

Assuming 24VDC, voltage rating for the capacitor should be at least 36V, 48V would be better.

 

[Falcon67]

FWIW, there are china gen sets and then there are china gen sets. The HF "3200 watt" units have reviews saying they won't reliably run 13.5K BTU RV AC units. Our "3500 watt" Champion will run a 20A draw 13.5K RV AC unit and a 700w microwave.

 

[JerryC]

Many of those generators split the 110 into two "legs" and you'll get about 13A out of each. I would have thought the breaker on the gen would have popped.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

My 4KW Champion runs ACs no problem, so I tried my 110 welder on it...
By the sounds it made, I'd estimate a very short lifespan as a welding power source.
Also didn't weld well.

 

[sberry]

The problem is not the cord but on one end or the other.

 

[rsanter]

seems to me if this is going to be an off grid shop and you want to do welding, then I would look at buying a welder/generator.
use it to weld and use it to power the shop

if it is trailer mounted then you can take it mobile as well

bob

 

[rockwithjason]

there is a simple way to tell if this setup will work or not, plug the welder directly into the generator and try to weld. if it won't weld then you are out of business.

 

[PCustoms]

Plug the welder directly into an outlet.

Does it work? Well?

Part of the issue may be a Chinese 120v MIG

 

[matt_i]

A Miller Bobcat which I think is 8kW, will weld for weeks on end, supplied with gasoline or propane. Not a mig but a stick welder, it may be able to power other processes, I am not certain. That is how I would roll if I wanted to weld off the grid...or...take parts and pieces back to my shop.

 

[sberry]

That is expensive. As convoluted as it may seem the OP is not that far off. If I was wantinhg a portable for occasional work would certainly look at one of the 4K 400$ sets and an inverter stick. When yo didn't need the genset its absolutely great on 120V and is a full size unit from 240V.
While a Bobcat I s nice he prolly doesn't need a 3500$ welder that makes 20 hp to make a watt. There is a limit to how cheap we can go though for sure and some testing is in order. Putting different ends on the cord wont help.
First as Jason said, does it weld from line power?

 

[ForceFed70]

So.. let me get this straight. You're saying your 3300W generator won't handle a 115V 15A/1800W load?

Keep in mind - A welder doesn't have inrush current. Inrush current is typically only seen with electric motors. What you are seeing is your generator taking too long to react to a change in the load demand, which seems a lot like inrush current I mush admit.

Can you go to a finer wire and turn down the amperage/voltage? Is your generator's idle speed adjustable?

 

[1950coronet600hp]

a welder generator is definitely out of my price range. unfortunately this shop is all i have, being that its a 15a "regular" plug off the welder, and the generator is rated well over 15a it should work. of course this isn't always so. I've never had any other problems with my generator (all power 3300) and it was actually rated quite good by consumer reports with the only black mark being Db levels. i think wheeling it over to the generator to see for sure is the best bet. but still that being said, anyone else have anything to offer on the use of large car stereo capacitors off the weld feed? and my final "if all else fails" plan. 2 deep cycle batteries, and welding rod. but i would rather not.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

So.. let me get this straight. You're saying your 3300W generator won't handle a 1800W load?

Can you go to a finer wire and turn down the amperage/voltage?

it should... i honestly think its the way too thin, and long extension cord.. its the surge where the problem is, not continuous. just devising a battle plan if its not the cord...

 

[ForceFed70]

Your 12ga 25' extension cord is not the problem. That welder is designed to work through 100' of 14ga cable. 25' of 12ga is way better than what it would normally see for a feeder circuit.

There is no surge with a decent welder. The initial wattage and the sustained wattage should be very close to each other. What you are seeing is the generator taking a second or 2 to output the required wattage, not the welder requiring an initial "surge" of power.

The solution is to reduce your load or somehow improve the generator's reaction time. Hence the questions about "is the idle speed adjustable" and "Can you turn down the voltage?"

And no - a capacitor will not work. 10+ may work or A coulpe of those fancy new "super capacitors" that people are starting to use in place of a car battery might work. But you'll find it's cheaper and better to buy the proper equipment at that point.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

IMO what you are hearing is not enough horsepower. What you can't hear is not enough brushes, regulator, etc. a 6K will do it without issue.

 

[nadogail]

I have burnt 3/32 7014 rods with my Hobart Stickmate set at 100 Amps AC
powered by my Harbor Freight 13 Horse engine spinning a Harbor Freight 10 KW alternator.

Don't laugh, that cobbled together, funny looking, collection of Chinese hardware is no joke.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

IMO what you are hearing is not enough horsepower. What you can't hear is not enough brushes, regulator, etc. a 6K will do it without issue.

yes I'm quite worried about that too. (brushes mostly) I think at this point if it does the same thing plugged right into the welder, its game over for this combo. now, i know on some inverter generators, you can daisy chain them for more output. if I found another generator could I wire their outputs in parallel? or is it more complicated then that? like back-feeding, etc. or is it a simple thing? I think if all else fails, I could sell it and buy a bigger generator... it would be nice to have enough power to run my 225 Lincoln buzz box. and a little more info on my welder, the thickest its recommended for is 11 gauge steel, its wimpy to say the least...

 

[trainer]

Sounds like a perfect application for an oxy acetylene welding outfit.

 

[ishiboo]

yes I'm quite worried about that too. (brushes mostly) I think at this point if it does the same thing plugged right into the welder, its game over for this combo. now, i know on some inverter generators, you can daisy chain them for more output. if I found another generator could I wire their outputs in parallel? or is it more complicated then that? like back-feeding, etc. or is it a simple thing? I think if all else fails, I could sell it and buy a bigger generator... it would be nice to have enough power to run my 225 Lincoln buzz box. and a little more info on my welder, the thickest its recommended for is 11 gauge steel, its wimpy to say the least...

Not easily. You have to get the two generators waveforms almost or close to in sync before you can make a connection between the two. That requires pretty precise throttle control and a way to compare the waveforms to tell whether you need to speed up or slow down.

You just need to get an acceptable generator, or forget welding from it. A decent 6k generator will not be terribly expensive used. If you want new, the HF Predators are pretty darn good... I use mine in place of my Briggs and it's never failed me.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

yeah, I'm hoping its just the extension cord, but I think I may be upgrading in the future. I sell all-powers and got a great deal on my 3300, so i think selling mine, and buying the 6000 is in order. *****, but sometimes ya just have to plunk down some coin on equipment... considering I got my 200 sqf shop built for under $500 I'm still quite ahead of the curve...

 

[Radix2]

.... and my final "if all else fails" plan. 2 deep cycle batteries, and welding rod. but i would rather not.

Sounds like a perfect application for an oxy acetylene welding outfit.

Have guys heard of a Readywelder ? it is a mig spool gun that runs off of a couple of deep cycle batteries.

http://readywelder.com/

This is my go to for portable welding - a little cart with a couple of batteries, a tank if you want gas, and you have a pretty potent welding rig for small remote jobs.

take a look.

And I will add here - a oxy rig is a good idea too.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

that is a neat gizmo, pricey though.. while looking for a genny, I actually found a lincwelder 225 dc stick welder that needs a new engine for $75 its an onan with a window in the block, seeing if there's another small engine I can use to power it. I might be able to even configure it to run the mig machine too.. now that would be nice... then i can weld everything from sheet to 1/2 plate

 

[sberry]

How much would it cost to get line power? These are poor substitutes for it. I doubt there is a simple engine swap, everyone I ever seen gonna do that still has a broke welder and would have been way ahead to buy something in running condition.

 

[1950coronet600hp]

I own the shop but its on rented land, so line power is not an option while looking at generators, I also found an onan generator with a good motor for cheap too, might be the same one. waiting to see, those lincwelders are old enough, might be able to find a running one for cheap too... have to see. I would love to have a dc stick, as I can weld just about anything with that. save for super thin stuff....

 

[sberry]

It still may be cheaper to add service. I put one on land I rent. This is a hard way to go, very expensive to operate and maintain. It becomes a collection of junk parts.

 

[Racer_X]

I sell all-powers and got a great deal on my 3300, so i think selling mine, and buying the 6000 is in order.

I'd suggest testing whatever you want to run on the generator before buying it.

 

[TheEquineFencer]

What I'd do before I did anything else, verify the output of the generator! Build your self a real load bank. Get some space heaters incandescent light bulbs and an AMP probe. I'd power the space heaters and light bulbs off a drop cord you're using until I got the load up to the rated Amp rating of the generator using normal utility power as a power source to get you in the ballpark. Then go test your generator. Check the voltage and the amp lad and do the math. Volts x amps = wattage if memory serves me correctly. Be careful about the generator rating, sometimes it's misleading "surge rating" is really imaginary , what one will run at a continuous load is a real generators rating.