Welding on an air compressor

[pop pop]

Since everyone else seems to have an opinion, I can too.

FWIW I'm a retired ME, PE and hobbiest. What concerns me here is a welding instructor so full of himself he's recommending a task to someone who admittedly doesn't know what he's doing. That is BS with an asterik. I've worked with wonders like that. Can't get them off the job fast enough to avoid the risk they represent.

I'd be more worried about the OP's skills, which he questions himself, than the legal liability. Lawyers are only good after the catastrophy.

A good welder might be able to "get away" with this 100 times. It is, however, a violation of good safe practice the industry recognizes to prevent physical damage to property and life. That is all codes are intended to do.

OP, if you are worried about welding it, why? You got to live with the results and hopefully no one else.

 

[bdkruger1]

I have a two year-old vertical air compressor that stands on two wheels on one side, and a U-shaped bracket with rubber feet on the other. The factory (very crappily) welded the bracket to the outer tank at two points. One of these welds has broken off. When it broke off, the bracket left all of the filler material behind on the tank surface. I would like to repair it with my trusty HF flux core welder loaded with Lincoln wire.

Before starting this repair, is there anything I should be aware of, or is this a straightforward job that I think it will be? I just want to observe a bit of extra caution around things like pressure vessels. TIA!

There is NOTHING in the above statement that says he has reservations about his WELDING abilities. He's simply being cautious because he has no VESSEL experience.

And by the way, I'm not an INSTRUCTOR. That's a seperate cert. Had I paid another 250.00 when I took the CWI, I could have gotten the CWE, or Certified Welding Educator along with it. I chose not to, because I have no interest in dealing with no-nothing pinhead know-it-alls. Seen any of them 'round these parts lately?

 

[NASTYZEN]

Where's the insurance reps?Iwant there opinion.

 

[e-tek]

Well all I can say is....and
Make sure you setup a tripod camera far from the tank and then put your head near the flux core weld mend when you pressure test it.Please have someone post it on you tube so we can all enjoy it!

Yeesh.......

 

[e-tek]

Where's the insurance reps?Iwant there opinion.

Have you asked one about this??

 

[NASTYZEN]

LOL!!!
Not presurized.Load bearing.

 

[nismomans13]

That is BS with an asterik.

BS with an asterik BS*

 

[6768rogues]

My father had a vertical tank in a loft give out. The bottom blew out except about an inch of the seam, so it opened up like a hinge.
Damage below: Hole in loft floor, knocked a sink off the wall, ripped a door off its hinges, cracked a 15-year old block building from the top of the wall to the ground.
Damage above: Blew a hole in a 1/2 inch plywood ceiling and broke a roof truss after lifting it off its resting point.
Use your own judgment.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Here's a better one not pressurized but FIA approuved.For a 79 Shadow formula one oldie.The original was stainless and no longer legal.New shorter driver.Specs,D.O.M 1045 tubing,plates 4130 certified materials ER70 os welding rod.stress relieved.
Lots more where this came from if you like

 

[nismomans13]

You are going to die if you weld that leg on you're compressor....ASTERIK


And to those questioning how certified welders are telling someone to weld without knowledge of their skill set. None of us would be certified welders today if someone didn't let us weld without knowing our skill set.

 

[NASTYZEN]

I used to be certified,20 years ago.would you believe they let me do this also,uncertified?The hand rail part that is and 500+ bushings n stuff.
Not pressureized.

 

[porschedude996TT]

Yeesh. You'd think he's welding on an oxygen tank or something.

Let's be honest here folks. These tanks arn't rated or tested, they are not hardened metal. The majority are manufactured in China with no quality control.

Even if the metal is weakened, it's not going to explode or anything like that. Air compressor tanks rust through all the time... when's the last time you heard of one exploding due to the weakened metal? Or one exploding at all for any reason?

My brother works up north and is certified to weld high pressure gas lines, etc. I asked him when it was time to weld a bung into my air tank. I said "what do I need to do to make this safe" his reply "Wear your hood".

Thank you, I was going to do the same. The one above you must think that every Pressure Vessel is on a Nuclear Reactor. Welding on the outside with a wire feed will not harm the structural integrity of the pressure vessel. Typically wire feeds don't get a whole lot of penetration.

 

[nismomans13]

I used to be certified,20 years ago.would you believe they let me do this also,uncertified?The hand rail part that is and 500+ bushings n stuff.
Not pressureized.

umm yeah, i would believe that since its only hand rail. I would bet that a lot of welders in automotive assembly lines don't have certifications either. Like i said before, i am certified, and I am the first to admit it means absolutly nothing. All my certification means is that one day I managed to weld a root, hot pass and cover pass on a beveled open root tube in the 6g position. I will likely NEVER see that angle in the field either. So take it for what its worth, but its not the be all end all to welding.

 

[Joe69]

I have welded air tanks, and would do it again. But, I'm an experienced welder and don't take it lightly. If you're a novice, take it to someone who knows what they're doing.

Joe

 

[macdabs]

I have to rant after wasting my time reading this!

I was 9 years old learned how to cut steel using torches myself almost lost a eye with a slag pop.

Had a 67 Mustang shell fall off a cheap set of jack stands at age 12 almost crush me.

Had a RC plane fly into me not to mention all the model rockets and fire crackers that we screwed with as kids.

Now at my mid 40s as a business owner every young kid I hire says he is a snow boarder, rock climbing physical fit texting champion. They all last less than a year. WHY?? cause they never attempted to do anything that could be a challange or required them to learn a new skill. If they make a mistake and you yell instead of improving they cry and move on to their fifth job at 20. My point is practice ,"weld the dam thing" and be proud you accomplished something before you end up in the ground for doing nothing in your life.
Lets go back to don't ask don't tell and weld it!

 

[bdkruger1]

Here's a better one not pressurized but FIA approuved.For a 79 Shadow formula one oldie.The original was stainless and no longer legal.New shorter driver.Specs,D.O.M 1045 tubing,plates 4130 certified materials ER70 os welding rod.stress relieved.
Lots more where this came from if you like

And your point is?

 

[sberry]

Just out out of curiosity do a little weld sample and give us a pic,,, ha. The guy is conscientious guy for even asking, that much is obvious. If you can make a decent weld with that machine more power to you, weld it back on.

 

[NASTYZEN]

And your point is?

Well after seeing E-Tech's posting of my basement center post the size of my computer screen.I just wanted to show that without being certified I was still a somewhat competent welder.I must admit it looks scary.At the time,the only thing I had that could reach that area was a stick welder with extensions on it.I'm the first to admit it looks like hellBut it's not a pressure vessel.It's a load bearing device
In any case the post doesn't do much and is removable if I need to maneuver something down there.I'm going down there later to take a shot without the block on the end of the threaded part.
I am touched by his concern for my safety though
I,m willing to show my competence in pictures and examples,are you willing to prove yours by putting your stamp of approval on that guy's repaired tank??
I make stuff that put peoples lives on the line all the time and I make damn sure nothing dangerous leaves this shop.
My personal opinion is that it is taking an unnecessary risk to repair these crappy tanks when it can be replaced for a bit of cash that's all.It's like if you have a $5.00 head buy a $5.00 helmet.Or Dale Ernheart messing around with his seatbelts and stating(I've had hundreds of crashes and I have not pulled my brain stem)Two weeks before he experienced his last crash.
Hey this is a free country.Your *** not mine.Besides,He must of fixed it by now and will hopefully enjoy it for years to come!

 

[BADSIX]

after loking at the op picture all that needs to be done is to clean it up real good to bare metal, then position the leg to where it was orginaly and weld. your not going to generate heat to the pressure vessel to amount to anything remoatly harmfull. now if he was going to replace the end cap thats a differant story. but what he's going to do is harmless. if this is going to be a liabiliy problem then everone it the US should scrap their welders. think about it! you've just welded the broken axel on the lawn mower and the wifes running it in the front yard and the weld breaks. the wheel hits the blade and shoots out and hits the kid next door in the head he dies two days later. was there liability sure was, and after the lawyers get done with you you won't have but a few quarters to rub togehter. this is one case it's this way with everything that you repair with a welder

 

[nismomans13]

Guys, the compressor clearly has blown up and taken his computer with it since he hasn't posted back in some time now.

 

[nismomans13]

after loking at the op picture all that needs to be done is to clean it up real good to bare metal, then position the leg to where it was orginaly and weld. your not going to generate heat to the pressure vessel to amount to anything remoatly harmfull. now if he was going to replace the end cap thats a differant story. but what he's going to do is harmless. if this is going to be a liabiliy problem then everone it the US should scrap their welders. think about it! you've just welded the broken axel on the lawn mower and the wifes running it in the front yard and the weld breaks. the wheel hits the blade and shoots out and hits the kid next door in the head he dies two days later. was there liability sure was, and after the lawyers get done with you you won't have but a few quarters to rub togehter. this is one case it's this way with everything that you repair with a welder

ya but the lawnmower axle wasn't pressurized....lol

 

[ishiboo]

Wow, I've seen enough dumb comments in this thread to last a month...

Were someone (foolishly) weld a tank and it blew up, injuring or hurting someone, then criminal liability would be the result almost certainly. And it would be virtually impossible to prove that the welding done improperly was not the cause of the accident. And should you escape criminal liability, civil liability would certainly ruin the rest of your life, taking all your assets, all your future earnings excluding a pittance to live on, and generally resulting in you wishing you'd been the person killed (or injured).

Doing your best to weld something (that may or may not be beyond your capabilities) is typically not grounds for criminal negligence. You can typically always go bankrupt to get rid of civil liability, unless you're megarich, but you'll be starting over.

Safety is #1. Legalities are right at the bottom.

 

[nismomans13]

I love these people talking about the legal liabilities to weld on a compressor tank..haha

How many of you guys change your brakes, or oil, or repair gaskets and spark plugs, what about the legal liabilities involved in that, you most likely are NOT a certified mechanic, but you still pop your hood to work on it don't you? Obviously you do or you wouldn't have all the tools and be a member of this message board. You guys need to put away the saftey ranger pass and think about all the thing YOU do that you are not 'technically' supposed to do. I'm sure all these guys saying he shouldn't do it have done their fair share of things in this lifetime that they should of had a professional do.

But hey this is the internet and you can google and wikipedia every osah law and instance where the extreme happened in something or another.

 

[NASTYZEN]

Merry X-Mass everyone.Peace

 

[LIVELY]

everybody is going crazy on this guy--but--OUR GREAT GOVERNMENT/OFFICIALS/OSHA/AND ANY OTHER BOARD WAS DEVELOPED FOR SAFETY REASONS---IT WENT TO THEIR HEADS AND THE POWERS TO BE WENT NUTS AND KEPT ADDIND AND ADDING,ETC--I DEAL WITH INSURANCE ADJUSTERS ALOT/OSHA REPS ALOT/EPA IDIOTS/BUILDING INSPECTORS---SOME ARE GOOD--MOST ARE TOTALLY NUTS


I FEEL THAT IF YOUR IN DOUBT ABOUT SOMETHING ASK THE GUYS THAT DO IT[MOST WILL GIVE YOU A STRAIGHT ANSWER]
THE BIG OFFICIALS ARE OUT FOR BLOOD MONEY -THAT IS ALL

I BUILD MY OWN FRAMES AND ALOT OF SUSPENSION PARTS FOR MY RIGS AND WILL KEEP DOING IT WETHER THE OFFICAILS LIKE IT OR NOT--IT IS CALLED HOTRODDING AND DEVELOPING PRODUCTS


I TRUST A GREAT WELDER --[WHEN I HAVE SEEN THEIR WORK] NOT BEFORE
I HAVE SEEN CERTIFIED WELDERS WHO COULD NOT WELD AN EXHAUST PIPE

SCARY HUH

 

[RbrtAWhyt]

Dude...caps lock off...

 

[reznunt]

To the original poster ............

Ok, Reznunt, you've heard from the experts, the guys that think they're experts, the guys that want everybody else to think they're experts, the qualified, the unqualified, the guessers, and the BSers, so ..........

What are you going to do?

i'm going to sell it! lol

yes, i have heard from the experts, the guys that think they're experts, the guys that want everybody else to think they're experts, the qualified, the unqualified, the guessers, and the BSers... only problem is i can't tell who's who!

you would've thought i asked if i should clone humans to harvest organs to save cancer patients or something.

 

[nehog]

... they're experts, the qualified, the unqualified, the guessers, and the BSers... only problem is i can't tell who's who!
...

Well, I'm all of those so there!

Personally I still think my advice is the best: weld it and get it pressure tested, then you know everything will be OK.


I'm not a university professor, but I did stay... Oh, wait I am a university professor. Oops.

 

[djjsr]

you would've thought i asked if i should clone humans to harvest organs to save cancer patients or something.

If you plan on doing this, I suggest you get a decent cloner. I've tried the one from Harbor Freight ($29 with coupon) and it overheats then blows the fuse. I hear Snap-On has one but it's $50 million (available in red or black, custom color is extra).

 

[djd99]

i'm going to sell it! lol

yes, i have heard from the experts, the guys that think they're experts, the guys that want everybody else to think they're experts, the qualified, the unqualified, the guessers, and the BSers... only problem is i can't tell who's who!

you would've thought i asked if i should clone humans to harvest organs to save cancer patients or something.

Where do you live? If your close I'll give you scrap price for it!

 

[Chuckw]

this is the pile on right?

 

[nismomans13]

I personally say no matter what happens, you should defiantly tell everyone that it blew up so we get another 6 pages of pure awesome out of it.

 

[MoonRise]

Recent pictures of failed air tank, you ask?

Aftermath was no fatalities (thank God), but all four fingers broken on the one hand as well as a broken tibia AND femur and lacerations and bruises. Others in the garage suffered possible ear/hearing damage (ringing ears).

And this was all on a supposedly 'good' (but not recently hydro-tested) but used air compressor. Reportedly blew at approximately 150 psig, pressure relief valve reported as not sticking (ie, valve vented properly when manually pulled at approx 130 psig). Name brand unit, horizontal tank. The tank blew out the bottom first and peeled itself open 'violently'.

Still think it's OK to just go and weld on an air compressor tank or other pressure vessel? No WPS, no hydro-test? When -ALL- the real experts (ASME primarily) say No-NO-No? I sure don't, and never did.

 

[nismomans13]

Recent pictures of failed air tank, you ask?

Aftermath was no fatalities (thank God), but all four fingers broken on the one hand.

where's the fifth finger?

 

[Snake87]

Recent pictures of failed air tank, you ask?

Aftermath was no fatalities (thank God), but all four fingers broken on the one hand as well as a broken tibia AND femur and lacerations and bruises. Others in the garage suffered possible ear/hearing damage (ringing ears).

And this was all on a supposedly 'good' (but not recently hydro-tested) but used air compressor. Reportedly blew at approximately 150 psig, pressure relief valve reported as not sticking (ie, valve vented properly when manually pulled at approx 130 psig). Name brand unit, horizontal tank. The tank blew out the bottom first and peeled itself open 'violently'.

Still think it's OK to just go and weld on an air compressor tank or other pressure vessel? No WPS, no hydro-test? When -ALL- the real experts (ASME primarily) say No-NO-No? I sure don't, and never did.

Bolting down my air compressor tonight.

 

[Del Swanson]

I'm a journeyman steamfitter, and I would think twice about welding on an old tank. You just never know how much corrosion is behind where you're going to weld. True, the people who welded the brace to the tank may not be certified or even good welders, but they welded on new metal. I would much rather be next to a 1000psi hydraulic tank than a 100psi air tank if they blew. Compressed air is extemely violent when let loose in an uncontrolled manner. The pics on here ( as bad as they are and I'm glad no one died ) are nothing compared to some of the eqipment room disasters I've seen. I can't imagine something like that happening in my garage. Looking at the picture I would say if you stayed away from the actual tank, kept your heat down and mostly on the bracket you might be okay. But is it worth it? Are there kids around? If it were me, I'd price out a new tank, or have a pro do it. What do the other welds look like?

 

[MoonRise]

where's the fifth finger?

Thumb. The fingers had to get pinned back in place (don't know if it was actually the 'finger bones' or the 'hand bones' that were broken, guy feels lucky to be alive and still have all his 'parts'), the tibia got a plate, and the femur got pinned as well.

If he hadn't been right next to the tank when it failed as he turned off the compressor, the injuries would likely have been less.

Pressure vessels are not toys.

This tank looks like it failed from rust and/or near a (factory) weld, and then the tank 'zipped' itself open. Violently. Hard enough to break a femur (and tibia and four fingers on one hand). The fridge was right next to the tank, door and contents knocked off and out (no, EMS didn't just stop by for a snack).

What's your medical deductable and injury coverage and income continuance (or lack of income or life insurance) versus even just completely replacing the tank/unit?

Am I saying or claiming that it will absolutely fail? Nope.

Am I saying that ASME and -ALL- the pressure vessel 'codes' (design, safety, workmanship, testing, etc) say to not just go willy-nilly and weld on a pressure vessel? Yup.

And 'they' all say that because the real potential for BadThings is quite real.

 

[Chestrockwell]

There are lots of good reasons already mentioned for why a true professional would not touch this with a 10' pole!

 

[bdkruger1]

I dont give a rat's *** how many pics of blown up vessels you show me, I would perform the repair on the OP's compressor in a heartbeat. If that weld is repaired with the method I layed out earlier in this thread, there will be NO PROBLEM.


If the OP had a tank that he wanted to patch, or repair at all by welding directly on the vessel, then I would agree to absolutely NOT proceed. This however, is not that type of repair. It is simply a matter of welding the leg to the existing weld remaining on the vessel. PERIOD.

 

[Davefr]

It is simply a matter of welding the leg to the existing weld remaining on the vessel. PERIOD.

There's not much leg remaining on the tank that I can see.

I'm wondering if the OP can simply fabricate a secure craddle for the tank so that the legs aren't even needed