Welding Table - Square Tube Size

[dmw16]

I just got my first welder and my first project is going to be a small welding table to fit in my small garage. The table will be 30x18 to slide into a setback wall.

It won't see any heavy duty work and will double as a work bench for various car projects - probably never anything bigger than a subframe or a cylinder head will be on there.

I've put together a design I am happy with, but I've also looked at a lot of projects on here and just on google image search. In looking at those it seems like people go for very large square (1.5-2" square) tubing even for small benches.

Am I overlooking something? I've done the math and from a structural standpoint even 1" square w/ .065" wall is more than enough (unsupported legs would buckle at 2300# each). Are there other factors? Is 1" square hard to weld?

"Right" size tube would keep both cost and weight down. Is there something I'm missing?

 

[srmofo]

1" tube is going to require more triangulation to keep the table from being wobbly.
It will also require more to keep the top nice and level.

There is more to look at than just total failure

 

[mike13u]

1" tube would be fine for a small table if engineered correctly. 1" is no harder to weld than the larger sizes.

Good luck and post up some pics when complete

 

[dmw16]

1" tube is going to require more triangulation to keep the table from being wobbly.
It will also require more to keep the top nice and level.

There is more to look at then just total failure

I was figuring on gusseting the corners and putting cross braces on the sides and back. The front will be open so that I can use it for storage underneath. Maintaining a race car and welding in a one car garage requires a lot of creative storage

1" tube would be fine for a small table if engineered correctly. 1" is no harder to weld than the larger sizes.

Good luck and post up some pics when complete

I certainly will. It may turn into an early fall project. My car project has displaced my honey-do list, but I think I can't put that list off much longer...

 

[R.Anderson]

Go for it and square it with a tape as you go. If it is not part of your design, think about adding leveling feet for uneven floors and or any small differences in the legs.

Like Mike13u said "post up some pics when complete"

 

[dmw16]

Go for it and square it with a tape as you go. If it is not part of your design, think about adding leveling feet for uneven floors and or any small differences in the legs.

Like Mike13u said "post up some pics when complete"

Was planning on using these casters: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0039ZIPL4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[R.Anderson]

Was planning on using these casters: http://www.amazon.com/dp/B0039ZIPL4/?tag=atomicindus08-20

looks like you have things covered.

 

[sberry]

The corner gusset does almost nothing for a bench. This is the most economical and way better than a bench this short would need. The corners do not need to be strong or welded a lot, a stiffner across the span is needed. Angle is the cheapest and in fact would buy 2 sticks of angle for it all, legs too. All square cuts. Make a shelf under with the braces.
Actually I really start to look and see how much I can find for free and as ready built/finished as I can. Be surprised once a guy looks. Didn't have to do anything but sit the machine on this plasma cart. All alum and well built.

 

[sberry]

I would be so tempted to see how much of an HF engine stand or roll cart fit and modify as needed.

 

[sberry]

BBQ stands are almost perfect for something like that, all made, bent, finish paint, can fab with a hacksaw. The one for the fridgy stuff was made to fit in a cubby.
The first pic wasn't a bbq but free.

 

[dmw16]

Part of my motivation to build is to practice welding too. So I would rather build than buy/modify.

 

[Worsedog]

The corner gusset does almost nothing for a bench. This is the most economical and way better than a bench this short would need. The corners do not need to be strong or welded a lot, a stiffner across the span is needed. Angle is the cheapest and in fact would buy 2 sticks of angle for it all, legs too. All square cuts. Make a shelf under with the braces.
Actually I really start to look and see how much I can find for free and as ready built/finished as I can. Be surprised once a guy looks. Didn't have to do anything but sit the machine on this plasma cart. All alum and well built.

I've got that same stand at work holding my service monitor. Had to cut the arms off the top though so it would fit though. The old one that took a lightning strike just fit and was a bit narrower.

 

[gearhead1]

Calculate deflection on the horizontal work surface members. Failure mode may be deflection or wobble rather than yield.

 

[dmw16]

Calculate deflection on the horizontal work surface members. Failure mode may be deflection or wobble rather than yield.

That's a good point; buckling is rarely the driving failure mode. The work top will be supported on all 4 sides and with an X across the middle. So hopefully it won't be an issue. Some sag maybe, but certainly still in the plastic range.

 

[gearhead1]

Oh yes, I agree, it's not going to all come crashing down. Without doing any calculations, I'd guess 30 inches isn't going to be a problem. If it was 6 feet long, you'll have a lot of deflection, at 30", I'd build it and add stiffening if it needs it.

 

[dmw16]

Oh yes, I agree, it's not going to all come crashing down. Without doing any calculations, I'd guess 30 inches isn't going to be a problem. If it was 6 feet long, you'll have a lot of deflection, at 30", I'd build it and add stiffening if it needs it.

I'll do some rough calcs to check, but I don't expect to see a lot of deflections over such a short span.

 

[kazlx]

I think most people use bigger tube for visual reasons, not structural ones.

 

[Mr.N]

I'm not a structural engineer but know how to research and do math.

My view is, you don't want it to sag and the more welds the harder it is to keep everything plum.
Last, it's only a few more dollars for larger tube and using receiver tube gives you storage and versility options.

 

[R.Anderson]

I'll do some rough calcs to check, but I don't expect to see a lot of deflections over such a short span.

Your fine with 1" tubing, people are getting too technical over a small table that is only 18"x30". 1" is plenty for a 18"x30" general purpose welding/work table.

It is only 18"x30" that is 1.5ft by 2.5ft people, no need to use larger tubing other than aesthetic reasons. Adding receiver tube versatility will most likely be useless and a safety issue with tipping.

What do you have planned for the top?

 

[racingtadpole]

I built my first work bench from 1" SHS about 25 years ago, I wouldnt ever build one like that again. Yes its very easy to make one structurally rigid enough to support your loads without deflection, but what I learnt from the experience, is that a bench needs be heavy. 1" SHS is plenty big enough for your spans, but it will lack the weight for you to beat something to within an inch of its life on it and not wander around your floor (same thing happens when you try and cut something with a hacksaw). My thoughts these days are that any bench should be made as heavy as you can afford to make it. Im looking at revamping my welding surface in the near future and one of the ideas I'm considering is partially filling the legs with concrete to add mass.

 

[dmw16]

I'm not a structural engineer but know how to research and do math.

My view is, you don't want it to sag and the more welds the harder it is to keep everything plum.
Last, it's only a few more dollars for larger tube and using receiver tube gives you storage and versility options.

As it happens I am, and I did the math it's fine from a structural standpoint. 1" tube is pretty damn strong.

Keeping everything square was one concern I had with the smaller tubing.

Your fine with 1" tubing, people are getting too technical over a small table that is only 18"x30". 1" is plenty for a 18"x30" general purpose welding/work table.

It is only 18"x30" that is 1.5ft by 2.5ft people, no need to use larger tubing other than aesthetic reasons. Adding receiver tube versatility will most likely be useless and a safety issue with tipping.

What do you have planned for the top?

Just going to use a 3/8" steel top. Nothing fancy. Anything thicker gets pretty expensive.

I built my first work bench from 1" SHS about 25 years ago, I wouldnt ever build one like that again. Yes its very easy to make one structurally rigid enough to support your loads without deflection, but what I learnt from the experience, is that a bench needs be heavy. 1" SHS is plenty big enough for your spans, but it will lack the weight for you to beat something to within an inch of its life on it and not wander around your floor (same thing happens when you try and cut something with a hacksaw). My thoughts these days are that any bench should be made as heavy as you can afford to make it. Im looking at revamping my welding surface in the near future and one of the ideas I'm considering is partially filling the legs with concrete to add mass.

I don't plan to be beating on things really and hopefully the chosen feet will help damp the vibration if I need to. Really most of the work I do is more finesse than beatings. Tho there will be a vice bolted down occasionally.

I know we'll be moving in the next few years so I am trying to avoid building some massively heavy thing that I have to leave behind or hire a fork truck to move.

 

[sberry]

This isn't large enough to concern one with a fork truck no matter what the materials. I was suspecting you might be an engineer.

 

[BD1]

I like larger legs myself. One inch tube will look like legs on a flamingo.

 

[sberry]

I like larger legs myself. One inch tube will look like legs on a flamingo.

I was thinking this too, only reason to size it so small is if it was laying around free.

 

[dmw16]

This isn't large enough to concern one with a fork truck no matter what the materials. I was suspecting you might be an engineer.

Oh yeah, do I come off that nerdy? Or just a know it all?

Tho I suppose as point of fact I used to be...they moved me into management where I can't screw things up as much...

I was thinking this too, only reason to size it so small is if it was laying around free.

I like larger legs myself. One inch tube will look like legs on a flamingo.

That was something I was thinking of as well. It may look a little silly, but the 1" square stuff is cheap and also easy to source...tho I suppose 1.5" or 2" is as well.

Or maybe I'll just paint it pink.

 

[robert_dean]

I wouldn't be concerned about lack of strength, as you are not obviously and correctly, because the material will be plenty strong for what you intend to use the table for. The weight will be the "issue". I would argue that not for beating something with a hammer, but when/if you mount your vice, the lack of mass will present itself as a lack of stability. A rusty bolt, trying to remove a fitting from a sump pump, etc. That mass will be sorely missed, plus I'd be willing to bet that once you mount your vice you probably would end up leaving there. In my experience a vice is like a pick-up truck - once you have you'll always end up using it and thinking to yourself you're sure glad you have it. Plus your "friends" that can't/won't/don't have said truck/vice/tool always seem to find a need for your stuff!

I would suggest using a caster that has a brake on it and perhaps a locking swivel too, that would offset the added mass as being an issue when you go to move it later on. Visually/aesthetically the design is up to you, but perhaps adding second shelf near the casters would be a good way to add mass. Being a relatively small table though, stability will be your concern. Good luck.

 

[BD1]

'' Or maybe I'll just paint it pink.''

I hate PINK, so if you are near me I'll donate four pipe legs to you. Have some 2'', 2 1/2'', and 3'' all schedule 40 pipe. I'm in Northern Illinois near Wisconsin State line.

 

[dmw16]

I wouldn't be concerned about lack of strength, as you are not obviously and correctly, because the material will be plenty strong for what you intend to use the table for. The weight will be the "issue". I would argue that not for beating something with a hammer, but when/if you mount your vice, the lack of mass will present itself as a lack of stability. A rusty bolt, trying to remove a fitting from a sump pump, etc. That mass will be sorely missed, plus I'd be willing to bet that once you mount your vice you probably would end up leaving there. In my experience a vice is like a pick-up truck - once you have you'll always end up using it and thinking to yourself you're sure glad you have it. Plus your "friends" that can't/won't/don't have said truck/vice/tool always seem to find a need for your stuff!

I would suggest using a caster that has a brake on it and perhaps a locking swivel too, that would offset the added mass as being an issue when you go to move it later on. Visually/aesthetically the design is up to you, but perhaps adding second shelf near the casters would be a good way to add mass. Being a relatively small table though, stability will be your concern. Good luck.

That's a fair point on the mass...I hadn't considered that before. I will go to at least 1.5" tube...maybe 2".

As for the casters, they actually retract so it just leaves hard rubber feet against the floor once you move the table into position.

 

[Ozwelder]

Having seen problems with beginner welding .065" wt sq tube, I would recommend good practice sections, but first we should look at the welder.

Is the machine AC or a DC output. A DC out put machine will make thinwall welding a better experience for any new operator. Electrode positive on a 2mm 6013 diameter stick,around say 50 amps & holding a short arc should yield best results.

Another tip is to tack up and square up the entire assembly first. No welded beads until every component is tacked on and checked for square ,level parallel ,etc!

Do your welding in 1 location, say your 1 inch fillet bead on 1 leg, then go to a diagonal opposite location on the opposite leg. This allows the heat to dissipate heat build up which may cause distortion- remember it is thin metal.
Overwelding as in multiple or heavy beads also add to distortion.

Practice on scrap before you attempt thin wall.

Hope it helps you

Ozwelder

 

[dmw16]

Having seen problems with beginner welding .065" wt sq tube, I would recommend good practice sections, but first we should look at the welder.

Is the machine AC or a DC output. A DC out put machine will make thinwall welding a better experience for any new operator. Electrode positive on a 2mm 6013 diameter stick,around say 50 amps & holding a short arc should yield best results.

Another tip is to tack up and square up the entire assembly first. No welded beads until every component is tacked on and checked for square ,level parallel ,etc!

Do your welding in 1 location, say your 1 inch fillet bead on 1 leg, then go to a diagonal opposite location on the opposite leg. This allows the heat to dissipate heat build up which may cause distortion- remember it is thin metal.
Overwelding as in multiple or heavy beads also add to distortion.

Practice on scrap before you attempt thin wall.

Hope it helps you

Ozwelder

Thanks for the tips. I'm certainly going to practice before I start trying to make something I may actually use.

I'll be using a Miller 211, so it's DC output.

 

[sberry]

I fashion 2 wheels on one end and simple legs on the other with the vise over one of them. This is not so heavy that moving will be difficult and could put a cross bar on legs to lift one end with a floor jack.
As for the engineer the concern over deflection and the calculations on a 30 inch bench were a dead giveaway, I had a clue when we discussed the compression strength of inch tubing though.

 

[sberry]

I agree with a little mass in the legs. I built about 200 of these, at the time we used 10 ga and they didn't get back bracing, only top support with an angle and tied with the bottom shelf supports to the legs.
Essentially 4 legs tacked to the plate with 4 angles seen in one of the pics and 4 more light angles to tie legs together. Really very little welding, about 10 minutes per bench.
My bud has one of them, one of these days will grab a pic. Built them for an alternator reman plant. Framed the legs in a jig, set it all on a plate and had to square one end, the rest was self fitting qand my helper could build 3 or 4 in a morning.
I would go to the steel yard 2 or 3 times a week with a cut list and bang it all out, gang cut 10 tubes at a time on a band saw for legs, same for angles and shear several plates of 1/4. Cut them in ranges from 2 to 5 ft and all were 2 ft wide so had a modular system. Could stockpile the leg sub assemblies for any length bench.
Most of the stiffner under the top was 1/8 x 1 1/2 andle tacked to it and on longer ones the 5 footers, maybe some 4's we used 3/16 angle.

 

[sberry]

Your 211 was made for this. It really takes very little welding to hold a bench like this together and most of it is on the frame, the point connections are not some ultimate critical design, the weight sits on the leg and some size for leg deflection under some extreme load would be as big of an issue as any, say dropping a V8 and ****** from 10 ft or so.
You are in a situation where the bench is small, any real load would crush a caster, would take power lifting above a cherry picker to crush of deflect it and to0 top it all off it really doesn't matter much if it is very flat. On the so rare occasion would simply shim it if it was an issue.
There are places in the world they make sense but it isn't for a utility bench in a home garage. My own are nothing to write home about but work well enough I dont do anything different, its way down on my wish list and no one notices but me.

 

[sberry]

Mine are remnants of some field fab junk I should have trued one leg on before I ever got started. Its never been finished and is full of tack on's as needed.
The upside is its super tested and super slick to work around. Its really the location but some of the features make it smooth. Its not stuff highly engineered in and doesn't have any tube. The vise never moves. There are changes I would make starting over, mostly cosmetic and a bit to do with the legs and less patchwork of a top.

 

[sberry]

Its water on the floor in second pic and that bench is a vise stand. I realize not everyone has the space but bracing and strength are minor concerns, storage and convenience being the biggest. The reason I rank storage is in even smaller places its more of a factor but I store the items I need convenient, kind of a 2 for 1, at home might consider a drawer or 2 along with a shelf/clamp rack, maybe even hammers, something to give it a little ballast.
I have other tables but this is "the bench". We do welding on it but as many other projects too.

 

[toofart]

I made a 2 x 8 table out of 1" .100 tube. 6 legs. Plenty study. 12-gauge sheet on top.