Welding using batteries and jumper cables

[sewerzuk]

Its been a while since I posting anything here...so thought I would do a little contributing!

I put together this short video demonstrating how to weld with a pair of batteries and a set of jumper cables. I've used this method dozens of times on stranded rigs; with a little practice you can lay down some pretty nice welds.

I do own a ready welder, but I find that I usually leave it in the shop for most trail runs and just toss a few sticks of welding rod in my toolbox to save on space and weight.

The welding in this video was done with 1/8" 6011 rod, but others work well too. I've seen people use coat hangers, coins, etc. as a filler rod and I've tried it a few times; but without flux, you end up with a pretty nasty bird-poopy looking weld. Its easier to be a little proactive and toss some welding rod in your toolbox...

 

[d33pt]

Thanks for the demo..i didn't know the rod went into the negative post. Good to know. I will pack some welding rod and battery cables with my trail kit for sure. Low weight and doesn't take up alot of space, but adds a ton of capability.

 

[neonnblack]

That was very informative, i ahve heard of people doing it before, but never actually seen it done. Very professional video too.

And that is one kick *** duece by the way.

Oh yeah, one more thing. How long would the batteries last doing that?

 

[ibedayank]

problem with this is when you stick a rod...dead short
better option would be a weldernator or underhood welder

dead shorts have been known to blow up batteries and start fires

 

[Brad54]

Can you do that with one battery, or do you need to have two?

-Brad

 

[sewerzuk]

problem with this is when you stick a rod...dead short
better option would be a weldernator or underhood welder

dead shorts have been known to blow up batteries and start fires

You actually can't stick a rod with this method (at least, you almost can't). Because batteries are capable of producing 600+ amps (depending on the battery), the rod never sticks (as long as the batteries are charged). The deeper you push it into the puddle, the hotter the arc gets.
It really is different than welding with a normal constant current power supply...takes a bit of getting used to, especially if you're already an experienced stick welder. I have burned through literally hundreds of welding rods this way and have never had the rod stick, even once.
If the rod does stick for some reason, its easy to just tug the jumper cable off of the vise grips, or the ground clamp on the workpiece. You're hands are right on the cables whenever you're welding...

Can you do that with one battery, or do you need to have two?

-Brad

I tried to weld some thin sheetmetal once with some 1/16" rod and one battery...just wasn't enough arc there to work with. You might be able to stick something together, but you really can't produce any kind of quality weld with just 1 battery. The 2 battery method seems to work well up to 1/4" steel. Thicker than that and you can still weld things together, but 3 batteries gives better penetration.
I've NEVER had a reason to need anything other than 2 batteries; I've welded vehicle frames, a cracked wheel, steering arms, drag links, tie rods, 4-link bars, suspension brackets, etc. and every time the vehicle was able to drive for the rest of the trip without any further repairs.

 

[skeletonizer]

Awesome. Just don't let my wife see it as I almost have her convinced that I need a Miller 180. Her response would be, "You have everything but the welding rod and you still have your Dad's old welding helmet. You don't need a welder. I'm off to shop for new granite counter tops, ours have gone out of style."

 

[ibedayank]

I have seen what happens when a battery blows up.... just not worth taking the chance to me
But then i HATE hospitals and morphine so you may be differnt then me.



me i would use the underhood/weldanator system because you can use it without needing others to let you use their batteries... bunch of dead batteries means Y'all are .....and up the creek without a paddle

 

[sewerzuk]

I have seen what happens when a battery blows up.... just not worth taking the chance to me
But then i HATE hospitals and morphine so you may be differnt then me.



me i would use the underhood/weldanator system because you can use it without needing others to let you use their batteries... bunch of dead batteries means Y'all are .....and up the creek without a paddle

The whole point of this was to demonstrate that you don't need to spent $1k for underhood equipment to produce a decent weld in the field. Sure, a premier power welder is a nice piece of equipment, but for the majority of us who can't spent the $$ on something like that, this method is a great substitute.

And no, I don't "like" visits to the ER. You're surmising that it's easy to blow a battery up welding this way. My experience speaks otherwise. You worried about welding this way? Then don't do it.

 

[sewerzuk]

That was very informative, i ahve heard of people doing it before, but never actually seen it done. Very professional video too.

And that is one kick *** duece by the way.

Oh yeah, one more thing. How long would the batteries last doing that?

You get about 10 minutes of arc time, depending on the size and condition of the batteries and your welding technique. The arc does get cooler during this discharge...so it's a good idea to recharge the batteries during pauses in the welding.
Allowing the batteries to fully discharge also shortens their life...so I try to avoid letting that occur.

 

[rsanter]

I have dealt with the mess of a battery explosion, its awfull
I am going to recomend using battery boxes to everyone

bob

 

[NASTYZEN]

Well I'll be darned! The stuff you learn on here.
I have always been told NOT to ground a battery for fear of it exploding! And now I see this............
Never even would of occurred in my mind to do this. I would of bet you couldn't even strike an arc.
Mcguiver at his best.

 

[gorilla]

Why did you choose E-6011 to weld cast iron brake rotors?

 

[jtbinvalrico]

Cool demo....You just never know when something like that could come in handy.

 

[Buckgnarly]

Why did you choose E-6011 to weld cast iron brake rotors?

6011 is a good rod to use on the trail.
I'm hoping/assuming the OP is presenting this as a trail method, not something you should be using in a shop environment.

 

[MoonRise]

Yeah, one battery @ 12V DC is not quite enough voltage to run a welding rod. Two batteries in series @ 22-24V DC is close to what a 'typical' 3/32-1/8 inch SMAW/stick welding rod runs at (close, but not quite). Three batteries @ 33-26V DC is a bit too much voltage.

No control or adjustment of voltage/current, so just be aware of that factor.

Also have heard/read that running the 'welding cable' in a loop (around an iron or otherwise magnetic item, like a piece of pipe a couple of inches in diameter or maybe a steel rim) gives a bit of inductance to the welding circuit and thus helps make the arc a little bit 'smoother'. For those who want to concern themselves with that sort of thing while attempting to do a trail repair.

Not for 'code' or critical work, but in a pinch to get you off the trail until you can actually fix it and 'do it right', yeah. +1

 

[ibedayank]

weldanator....alternator from the junk yard...
some welding cable or old jumper cables....
stinger clamp...ground clamp...
metal to make mount belt dimmer switch
wire to hook it all up


yeah that will cost $1000 yeah sure!!!

 

[Olafur]

Nice video, thanks.

Done this few times over the past 15 years to get home from winter mountain trips. My local 4x4 club does demonstration for newcomers every couple of years. If memory serves the risk from hydrogen explosion in car batteries is primarily a concern when they are under charge, and mainly from external heat sources, like sparks. I like to place them as far from the work area as possible since I have seen one explode. It was indoors, under charge and I just had to use the angle grinder and spew sparks all over it.

What I tend to forget is to keep welding helmet in my truck. Welding with multiple sunglasses in a snowstorm is pain.

 

[sewerzuk]

Why did you choose E-6011 to weld cast iron brake rotors?

6011 is a good rod to use on the trail.
I'm hoping/assuming the OP is presenting this as a trail method, not something you should be using in a shop environment.

I didn't choose 6011 as the proper rod to weld cast iron with; I was just suggesting that it was the most useful rod to carry in your toolbox for those emergency repairs. I wouldn't expect many trail repairs to be on cast iron.

Buckgnarly is correct; I was presenting this as a macgyver like skill to add to everybody's arsenal. I would never choose this technique if I had a "planned" welding job. However, I have used it literally on dozens of trail repairs with excellent results.

 

[redman43]

MacGuyver like skill is right. Nice.

 

[A_Pmech]

Nicely done.

 

[Zick]

weldanator....alternator from the junk yard...
some welding cable or old jumper cables....
stinger clamp...ground clamp...
metal to make mount belt dimmer switch
wire to hook it all up


yeah that will cost $1000 yeah sure!!!

Dude, give it a rest.

And thank you sewerzuk for posting this, very helpful and obviously not for everyone.

 

[jeffmoss26]

Pretty cool!! Thanks for sharing!

 

[Griff93]

Thanks for sharing. I need to pack this stuff in my toolbox of my jeep. Being that space is at a premium in a jeep, any ideas for a welding helmet that doesn't take up as much space as a regular one?

 

[rockwithjason]

weldanator....alternator from the junk yard...
some welding cable or old jumper cables....
stinger clamp...ground clamp...
metal to make mount belt dimmer switch
wire to hook it all up


yeah that will cost $1000 yeah sure!!!

sounds like you just volunteered to do a full write up with pics for this set up.

 

[GTVi]

I'm impressed, I learned something new today...thanks for the presentation.

 

[sewerzuk]

Thanks for sharing. I need to pack this stuff in my toolbox of my jeep. Being that space is at a premium in a jeep, any ideas for a welding helmet that doesn't take up as much space as a regular one?

Here is what I carry with me. It's a small handheld shield. Ties up one of your hands, but doesn't take up too much space in the toolbox, and it works great when you need to get your head into some crazy tight space to see your weld:

http://www.tooltopia.com/firepower-..._term=FPW14234100&utm_campaign=googlebase_18u

 

[ibedayank]

sounds like you just volunteered to do a full write up with pics for this set up.

google/utube been done quite a few times

 

[ibedayank]

http://diy-welder.com/index.shtml


http://www.huv.com/jon/jeep/Welder/on-board-welder.html

 

[Buckgnarly]

http://diy-welder.com/index.shtml

Here's the finished product:

First link nothing to do with topic.....second an alternator with engine that sounds like it's neat redline.....third some people talking about something and what looks like a frame.

I'd actually really like to see a "poor man's" alt on board welding setup, but honestly don't see anything in your links. I am planning on eventually getting an OB welding setup, but see nothing wrong with using the batts in times of need.

 

[OccupantRJ]

Thanks for sharing. I need to pack this stuff in my toolbox of my jeep. Being that space is at a premium in a jeep, any ideas for a welding helmet that doesn't take up as much space as a regular one?

There is something we used on construction jobs, that was called a sock helmet. It was a soft leather hood, similar to a sandblast hood, with a welding lens in it. They were used when a welder need to get his head into a confined area. It collapses nicely for storage.

 

[srmofo]

There is something we used on construction jobs, that was called a sock helmet. It was a soft leather hood, similar to a sandblast hood, with a welding lens in it. They were used when a welder need to get his head into a confined area. It collapses nicely for storage.

I was going to say to take the lense off a cheapie handheld and ziptie it to a skimask

 

[sewerzuk]

I was going to say to take the lense off a cheapie handheld and ziptie it to a skimask

That's a sweet idea...I'm thinking I may try this. You can buy replacement shaded lenses for welding helmets in different sizes, curvatures, etc...seems like it would be easy to find one that fits a mask.

Probably fine for short welding repairs, but the other function of the mask is to shade your face from UV rays. Anybody who has tacked more than a few pieces together with a MIG welder knows what a flash burn feels like...not pleasant. The ski mask idea is fine for trail repairs (and its an idea I intend to try), but I would shy away from using it for more than 1 stick of welding rod.

 

[sewerzuk]

weldanator....alternator from the junk yard...
some welding cable or old jumper cables....
stinger clamp...ground clamp...
metal to make mount belt dimmer switch
wire to hook it all up


yeah that will cost $1000 yeah sure!!!

I started this thread to inform members of this forum of a technique that they may not be familiar with, and to contribute to the credible information contained on the Garage Journal. Not to debate the pluses and minuses of the different methods of producing mobile welds. But, since you seem dead set on dragging that topic in here, here is my take:

Your description of the weldernator is oversimplified. It isn't as simple as scrounging for some parts and throwing them under the hood. The alternator must be internally modified, brackets must be fabbed up to mount the alternator, ECU mods or a throttle cable must be made to control engine RPM, and, probably most difficult of all, space must be made under the hood of your vehicle to mount this second alternator (try to find space for this on a TJ or XJ with the 4.0 WITHOUT removing the AC pump). The majority of the people reading this probably don't have the time, skill, space, tools, etc. necessary to come up with a setup like this. To top it off, your vehicle must be present, running, and close enough to the broken part to run your cables. Don't get me wrong...the weldernator has some serious advantages...things like adjustable voltage and current, independence from a vehicle's electrical system, and unlimited weld time. You know why I know this? Because I've had the opportunity to use one on several occasions! As cool as it may be, for me, the disadvantages were just too great. If I was welding something together on the trail once a week, then I may reconsider putting one in one of my trail rigs.

The advantages that the battery method has:
-It utilizes tools that almost any DIYer already has in their vehicle
-It takes up almost no space, and adds almost no weight to an existing vehicle
-It is completely portable. If you can carry/drag/drop/push/pull the batteries to whatever needs welded, you can weld it
-Cost is minimal; generally, $20 will set you up with some welding rod and a cheap mask
-Time to set this up: Approximately 2 minutes

Which one is better for you? Could be either way...or neither. Maybe an engine driven generator/welder mounted to your flatbed better suits your needs. I think the people here are intelligent enough to decide what best fits their situation, budget, skill level, etc. I was just providing the information.

When something breaks on the side of the road/trail that requires welding it usually goes down like this:
About a dozen guys stand around wondering what to do. One guy speaks up about how if he had his tools, shop, a weldernator, and a few minutes, he would have the vehicle back together in no time. That same person also can tell you exactly why the part failed, and why the engineer who built it didn't know his caliper from his elbow, and how it should have been designed. Then there's guy who, while the others are being distracted by the one guy running his mouth, grabs a set of jumper cables and welds the **** that broke back together. Be the guy holding the set of jumper cables.

 

[atpalmer]

^^^^ best reply ever ^^^

 

[browntown]

Thanks for a well made video, I knew it was possible but wasn't sure how it was done.

 

[ibedayank]

First link nothing to do with topic.....second an alternator with engine that sounds like it's neat redline.....third some people talking about something and what looks like a frame.

I'd actually really like to see a "poor man's" alt on board welding setup, but honestly don't see anything in your links. I am planning on eventually getting an OB welding setup, but see nothing wrong with using the batts in times of need.

first link...what do you think is the power source....yeah an ALTERNATOR

 

[ibedayank]

Well sewer you stated it would cost $1000
I have shown it won't If you have the skills to PROPERLY build a offroad 4x4 from the ground up
this is childs play

this way...you don't need to borrow anything from anyone...aka battery you are self contained


most gearheads that i know already have the parts needed to make one
diticated $x$ what the hell do you need ac for its not like most have tops ...doors...or windows anyway

 

[Buckgnarly]

first link...what do you think is the power source....yeah an ALTERNATOR

Ah, ok....so the post was as useless as I first thought......

 

[lilredex]

An easy Google find.......

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7496772