Well and bladder tank issue

[steveo1o9]

I know this isn't garage related but I am looking for some help. I am a first time homeowner (moved in last October) and have never lived anywhere that has had a well before. It has become very apparent that my well is short cycling like crazy. I got down into the crawl space to check out the pressure switch (40/60 switch) and bladder tank (32 gal) and found that during water usage the pressure gauge would show a drop from 60 to 40 psi almost instantly and start the well pump to catch back up. To me this indicated the pressure switch was operating as it should since the cut in and off were within range. Next I turned off the well and drained the tank from the nearest faucet (outside hose bib) best I could. Since the tank is under the house it is laying horizontally on the ground with no other way to drain it. The "empty" pressure was in the upper 50's not 38psi as it should have been. I released the air back to where it should be and turned the pump back on. After the tank filled I ran the water and everything operated as it should and no more short cycling. I went to check the pressure on the tank when filled and it spit water... To me the that pointed towards a failed tank, and after a few days the pump is back to short cycling again.

So now my dilemma is how to fix this. The tank in there now is Well-x-trol W203 which after reading the specs is not meant to be mounted horizontally. The manufacturer date on the tank is 2011 so I assume that this is the second tank since the build date of 2006. The biggest horizontal mount tank I can find is 20 gal. Per my initial well installation log from 2006 the measured pumping rate of the well was 30gpm, but the listed capacity of the 0.5 hp pump is 10gpm ... If the pump rate is truly the 30gpm theoretically I would need two 20 gal. tanks in series to meet the minimum 1 minute run time to fill the tanks.

Now I ask you, for the price should I just install 2 new tanks and call it a day? I have read that bladder tanks live short lives is areas with hard water and high iron content, which I have, so this will become a routine procedure I imagine. I have also been looking at the cycle stop valve setups which will cost about the same money to install. I am not sold on this setup yet and am not sure if it will even work for me if my pump rate is actually the 30gpm. When searching the web on the CSV setups you find the same few people raving about them which I find suspicious.

Sorry for the novel, but any insight would be greatly appreciated.

 

[dragrcr890]

your bladder sounds like it failed inside the pressure tank and works fine when first filled but shortly after lets all water inside and basically floods the bladder. Why don't you just install the WX203 - 32 gallon tank vertically like its supposed to be? (ok I reread and see the crawl space) I think you would be fine to use just a 20gal tank. And do it soon because you are now burning up your well pump when you short cycle it. I did this for a month before realizing it. I have that tank on my 2200 sqft 4 bath new house and I have no issues. Also, these things are known to last 5-8 years. I always write the date in sharpie on the outside of the tank and glance every now and then.

 

[Falcon67]

#1, I would try to find a way to stand up the tank. 99% of bladder tanks IMHO are upright. I'd be inclined to dig a hole if need be to install larger tanks

#2 - yes you can gang the tanks. Just T off the line going to the tank and - personally - I'd run two of the same size, rating, etc. I would shoot for the largest volume tank(s) you can fit because cycling the pump is what eventually kills them.

Last time we were on a well system, the water was hard as a 2x4 and laced with a bit of sulfur. Never had any issue with the bladder tank.

Here's some tanks with posted rates
https://www.epumps.com/sta-rite-psc...ing&m=simple&gclid=CISjosjuptQCFQcaaQod-AUALQ

 

[Northislander]

you could look at a new constant pressure pump. Not sure if you now have a jet pump or submersible but depending on the pump they either have built in pressure tank or require a very small tank.

 

[SteveCh]

I installed my bladder tank in maybe 1990, somewhere around there. So far the bladder is holding up, even with our quite hard water. If you cannot remount the tank vertically, can you replumb it outdoors, build a little enclosure. I assume no freeze problem as it's currently beneath the house anyway.

The bladder can be replaced in my tank. Or, it can if the co. is still in business. Bought mine from Sears way back then, so....

But I check the air pressure in my tank about once a year and do have to add air each time. Sounds certain that you have either a compromised bladder [heavy plastic bag, I expect] or a leak at the collar or whatever. Either way, new bladder time. I agree, though, that resetting the tank upright should be done. Or get a new tank and start over. In the big scheme of things, the tanks are reasonably priced.

 

[steveo1o9]

The cost of two smaller horizontal tanks from Home Depot (WaterWorker) vs. the tank in there now (Amtrol) is about a wash. Since the "higher quality" tank didn't even make it out of it's warranty period (7years) I am in no rush to spend the extra money on quality. It would not be feasible to dig down to install the tank vertically, several feet or so would need to be dug out then everything replumbed.

 

[LEVE]

Yep, if water is coming out the air charge valve then the tank has a ruptured bladder. Can it be replaced? Likely yes. It's not an easy job, just go slow.

Three decades ago I had to design a water system for 12 houses in my little community.

The State wanted me to install 15 gal captive tanks (16 of them! Yikes!) horizontally, plumbed in series in a rack for my "community" water system.

I opted to install three 80 gallon tanks, vertically and plumbed in parallel to one another. The State said: "No, you can't do that. These CAT's are too large and would be like having a bomb that could explode any time. The pressure from the well will cause them to fail and send shrapnel all over the place if a tank fails. It's a danger."

They denied my permit.

I had to go down to Olympia (Washington State Capital) and speak directly with the office issuing the permit. By showing them the math, and the locations of the five 6 psi relief valves installed in the system's CATs and piping the State relented and gave me my permit.

The system worked for the decade and a half while I lived there feeding five homes in a 10 acre area. I suspect it's still working....

 

[larry_g]

Per my initial well installation log from 2006 the measured pumping rate of the well was 30gpm, but the listed capacity of the 0.5 hp pump is 10gpm ... If the pump rate is truly the 30gpm theoretically I would need two 20 gal. tanks in series to meet the minimum 1 minute run time to fill the tanks.

Now I ask you, for the price should I just install 2 new tanks and call it a day? I have read that bladder tanks live short lives is areas with hard water and high iron content, which I have, so this will become a routine procedure I imagine. .

The pumping rate on the well, 30gpm, is what the well can deliver without running dry. It has nothing to do with what the pump size has to be. You just don't want to be pumping at a rate faster than the well can deliver so your fine with a 10gpm pump unless your doing a lot of lawn and garden watering. If your doing lawns then say so and I'll give you my opinion on that.

As for the pressure tank. It sounds to me like your air is escaping some how. Even with a bladder blown the air should stay in the tank for a few months. It sounds to me like your not pulling water from the bottom of the tank but some where higher up. So now you have a volume of water in the bottom of the tank that is just sitting there and the air above it is getting drawn off when the water volume in the tank drops and the air escapes with the water. Notice any spitting when running water?

I know you guys in cold country do things different than we do here but I'd sure try and find a place to move the tank where it is accessible and easy to service. It can be virtually any place in the cold water system. My old one was in a pump house that also served as cold storage. WELL insulated and during the winter we just left the 100w light bulb on during real cold spells. The large volume of water in the tank also serves to maintain temps and during the summer one could grab a beer off the shelf out there and it was cold enough to drink because our well water ran about 40*f.

good luck

lg
no neat sig line

 

[ard]

I have two wellxtrol tanks for 23 years... Very hard water, 6-8ppm iron... Work fine. In a crawl space, vertically mountedq. But I have a 5 ft crawl where they are located.

If your tanks are not to be mounted horizontally, and you mounted them horizontally and they failed, I wouldn't ascribe this failure due to a lack of quality...

How shallow is this crawl space??

 

[steveo1o9]

The pumping rate on the well, 30gpm, is what the well can deliver without running dry. It has nothing to do with what the pump size has to be. You just don't want to be pumping at a rate faster than the well can deliver so your fine with a 10gpm pump unless your doing a lot of lawn and garden watering. If your doing lawns then say so and I'll give you my opinion on that.

As for the pressure tank. It sounds to me like your air is escaping some how. Even with a bladder blown the air should stay in the tank for a few months. It sounds to me like your not pulling water from the bottom of the tank but some where higher up. So now you have a volume of water in the bottom of the tank that is just sitting there and the air above it is getting drawn off when the water volume in the tank drops and the air escapes with the water. Notice any spitting when running water?

I know you guys in cold country do things different than we do here but I'd sure try and find a place to move the tank where it is accessible and easy to service. It can be virtually any place in the cold water system. My old one was in a pump house that also served as cold storage. WELL insulated and during the winter we just left the 100w light bulb on during real cold spells. The large volume of water in the tank also serves to maintain temps and during the summer one could grab a beer off the shelf out there and it was cold enough to drink because our well water ran about 40*f.

good luck

lg
no neat sig line

Gotcha the pump test and measured 30gpm tests the aquifer itself not a test on the well pump installed after. The basic well permit form gives little information besides fill in the box info, but it is not really meant for the end user just the permitting agency. I do have an irrigation system but it is on a separate designated well.

No spitting with the water running. I imagine your theory would be possible when a vertical tank is installed horizontal, no? Water below the outlet pipe (middle of the tank) would sit and water above would be drawn off instead.

I would prefer to have the tank in the garage on the other side of the house but that would require some work I am not comfortable performing. A lot of replumbing would be necessary.

 

[steveo1o9]

I have two wellxtrol tanks for 23 years... Very hard water, 6-8ppm iron... Work fine. In a crawl space, vertically mountedq. But I have a 5 ft crawl where they are located.

If your tanks are not to be mounted horizontally, and you mounted them horizontally and they failed, I wouldn't ascribe this failure due to a lack of quality...

How shallow is this crawl space??

My water when initially tested was over 10ppm. Crawlspace is about 3ft to bottom of floor joists. I will have to take some measurements to see if I can squeeze something between the joists or dig out a foot or so.

 

[ard]

Steveo-

are you treating your water somewhere else? Softener, filter, iron filter??

In terms of relocating the tank(s), they just need to hang off the main pressurized line- they arent a 'flow through' deal. Not as much work as relocating filters, softeners, etc.... just a thought.

Gotcha the pump test and measured 30gpm tests the aquifer itself not a test on the well pump installed after. The basic well permit form gives little information besides fill in the box info, but it is not really meant for the end user just the permitting agency..

Bit OT:

As you correctly point out the rating on the well is the overall delivery capacity of the 'hole'. They drop a pump down, measure the static water height, pump at a certain rate, for a certain time, and measure the water height while pumping. I believe they use a nomograph to calculate the wells' production rate. What I quibble with is they this is ABSOLUTELY important to the end user and NOT just for the 'permitting agency': It tells you how much water you CAN get and how resistant to drought your well may be.

Here in CA we get city folk moving out to the country, buying a spread with a 1500 gallon holding tank AND a well rated at 6GPM and they are surprised when midsummer the lawns die and they cant all shower every day! Duh. That realtor handed them the well driller report, which was 'county approved' and nobody explained that 6GPM wont cut it! Especially when that '6GPM' was maybe 5.5 when drilled, and that was 15 years ago, and who know what it really is this year....

 

[LS6 Tommy]

If I go to the well too many times I have bladder issues, too...

Tommy

 

[steveo1o9]

Steveo-

are you treating your water somewhere else? Softener, filter, iron filter??

In terms of relocating the tank(s), they just need to hang off the main pressurized line- they arent a 'flow through' deal. Not as much work as relocating filters, softeners, etc.... just a thought.




Bit OT:

As you correctly point out the rating on the well is the overall delivery capacity of the 'hole'. They drop a pump down, measure the static water height, pump at a certain rate, for a certain time, and measure the water height while pumping. I believe they use a nomograph to calculate the wells' production rate. What I quibble with is they this is ABSOLUTELY important to the end user and NOT just for the 'permitting agency': It tells you how much water you CAN get and how resistant to drought your well may be.

Here in CA we get city folk moving out to the country, buying a spread with a 1500 gallon holding tank AND a well rated at 6GPM and they are surprised when midsummer the lawns die and they cant all shower every day! Duh. That realtor handed them the well driller report, which was 'county approved' and nobody explained that 6GPM wont cut it! Especially when that '6GPM' was maybe 5.5 when drilled, and that was 15 years ago, and who know what it really is this year....

Water softener is in the garage. I know there are two hose bibs which would need to be replumbed if it moved but will have to take a closer look at what would need to be done to make a move. I imagine it would be would be very simple for a plumber but I don't have the extra coin to bring someone in. I tend to DIY as much as I can but know when my skills are exceeded or times when the learning curve is steeper then I have time for. But I imagine it is as simple as extending the 1.25" pvc into the garage replacing the existing .5" or whatever it is.

 

[ard]

Water softener is in the garage. I know there are two hose bibs which would need to be replumbed if it moved but will have to take a closer look at what would need to be done to make a move. I imagine it would be would be very simple for a plumber but I don't have the extra coin to bring someone in. I tend to DIY as much as I can but know when my skills are exceeded or times when the learning curve is steeper then I have time for. But I imagine it is as simple as extending the 1.25" pvc into the garage replacing the existing .5" or whatever it is.

Yeah, you are thinking the right way.

Here, commonly, you will see pressure tanks at the well head: Tank, pressure switch, then a water main going up to the house. 1", 1.5", 2", whatever.

OR....you have the tanks at the house. Same 2" main, the storage is just hanging off that main at a different location. AT the house, in the garage, under the house....

The key is that the water storage and the water source (and the main water 'use') should be interconnected by a large pipe so you do not get pressure drops at high flows.


GL

 

[Falcon67]

If I go to the well too many times I have bladder issues, too...

Tommy

That was a pisser

 

[TractorJeff]

Rethink what these guys are telling you. Move the Tank into the garage is easy if I have read everything right! First, take the tank out of crawl space, then install a pipe to connect the two ends together. This means the water will flow directly to the Water Softener in the garage. Now go in the garage and cut the pipe on side of the water softener coming from the crawl space. Install a "TEE" reconnecting a stub of pipe back into the softener. Now run from the open hole of the "TEE" to the bladder tank.
Done!
As far as hose bibs, they should be before the Water Softener already.
No need to change them!

 

[Jackfre]

Another thing. Replace the pressure gauge with a good oil filled unit. The standard pressure gauges are way off, especially after the type of cycling you are seeing.

 

[sherrod624]

I have a CSV and it works exactly as advertised. I was very skeptical at first and thought it was snake oil. I had the same feelings as you.

my situation when I built my house was I had an existing 1hp-30gpm pump that is 30yrs old. I could only imagine after installing an 80 gal pressure tank that the pump would die and id have bought an unnecessarily large tank. I installed the CSV but instead of the 4.5 gallon tank that they recommend I put in a 20gal tank. I didn't want the pump to cycle every time I flushed the toilet.

I'll take a picture of my install when I get home and post it. I've not moved in yet but have been using the well weekly and as far as I can tell its working just fine. I was worried about the amount of backpressure it would put on the pump side of the valve. I get around 120psi on the pump side. I also checked the current draw to see if it dropped as advertised and it does. when my pump comes on it pulls around 10-11 amps and towards the end of the cycle it is pulling 7.

Also you get constant pressure with the csv if that's something that appeals to you.

 

[sherrod624]

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[steveo1o9]

I have a CSV and it works exactly as advertised. I was very skeptical at first and thought it was snake oil. I had the same feelings as you.

my situation when I built my house was I had an existing 1hp-30gpm pump that is 30yrs old. I could only imagine after installing an 80 gal pressure tank that the pump would die and id have bought an unnecessarily large tank. I installed the CSV but instead of the 4.5 gallon tank that they recommend I put in a 20gal tank. I didn't want the pump to cycle every time I flushed the toilet.

I'll take a picture of my install when I get home and post it. I've not moved in yet but have been using the well weekly and as far as I can tell its working just fine. I was worried about the amount of backpressure it would put on the pump side of the valve. I get around 120psi on the pump side. I also checked the current draw to see if it dropped as advertised and it does. when my pump comes on it pulls around 10-11 amps and towards the end of the cycle it is pulling 7.

Also you get constant pressure with the csv if that's something that appeals to you.

Thanks for the info Sherrod. I'm thinking I will "bandaid" the situation tomorrow with a cheap HD 20 gal horizontal tank which will give me some time to better devise a plan. I might do something very similar to what you have. The biggest issue I had with the CSV setups were the small 1 gal tanks. I don't want the pump to run for small water usage. The misses is not used to the water pressure associated with a well and has complained about the 20 psi fluctuation when working properly, so this might be my best bet.

 

[Caddis295]

Steve,

Take a look at Cycle stop Valves. http://www.cyclestopvalves.com/index.html

I have the PK1A model installed in my home. I had a large pressure tank in my home when we bought it, when it failed, I did my research and found the PK1A. Spoke with the company over the phone and made my purchase, that was 8 years ago and it is still going strong.

Check it out.

Caddis295

 

[MagKarl]

Rethink what these guys are telling you. Move the Tank into the garage is easy if I have read everything right! First, take the tank out of crawl space, then install a pipe to connect the two ends together. This means the water will flow directly to the Water Softener in the garage. Now go in the garage and cut the pipe on side of the water softener coming from the crawl space. Install a "TEE" reconnecting a stub of pipe back into the softener. Now run from the open hole of the "TEE" to the bladder tank.
Done!
As far as hose bibs, they should be before the Water Softener already.
No need to change them!

I agree with TractorJeff. You can do this yourself, the plumbing is no big deal.

 

[American Locomotive]

The cost of two smaller horizontal tanks from Home Depot (WaterWorker) vs. the tank in there now (Amtrol) is about a wash. Since the "higher quality" tank didn't even make it out of it's warranty period (7years) I am in no rush to spend the extra money on quality. It would not be feasible to dig down to install the tank vertically, several feet or so would need to be dug out then everything replumbed.

Keep in mind the tank was also installed incorrectly.

 

[FFRKing]

I realize this post is approaching a year old, but I wanted to add that I also installed a CSV and have had excellent results. After 13 years, my 80 gal. pressure tank failed. I did a lot of research and had decided on a Well-X-Trol replacement. I like to spend the extra money to get a better product. I then came upon the CSV and once again did a lot of research. I bought the PK1-A system and installed it in November. It's been working great since. I also wasn't crazy about the 4 gal. pressure tank and plumbed it in so I can go to a little larger tank in the future.

Chris

 

[jjgrappler]

The cost of two smaller horizontal tanks from Home Depot (WaterWorker) vs. the tank in there now (Amtrol) is about a wash. Since the "higher quality" tank didn't even make it out of it's warranty period (7years) I am in no rush to spend the extra money on quality. It would not be feasible to dig down to install the tank vertically, several feet or so would need to be dug out then everything replumbed.

I just installed a waterworker in my home a few months as my old tank had failed like yours. Waterworker is made my the same company as your old one Amtrol. The warranty is a little shorter but I am happy with mine. I am thinking of possible getting another and daisy chaining them together.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I've been reading this whilst pondering my well system. Not many people talk about how the CSV works with the pressure drop across filters and treatment systems. We have a 125' well with some sort of Red Lion 240V submersible pump, 20 gallon pressure tank, sediment filter, UV, and then a neutralizer tank. System pressure is 30~50, and with one shower on we have roughly a 4 PSI pressure drop across the filters. When more than one thing is using water we have a very noticeable loss of pressure in the house.

Despite the totally hokey website, the CSV seems like a decent product. However, installing it before the filters means we still have the pressure drop afterward, and installing it after the filters subjects the filters to potentially high pressure and also to the full flow rate of the pump at times.

One thing I'm considering, whether I use a CSV or not, is changing to a 10 PSI deadband pressure switch. Amtrol (makers of Well-X-Trol and Water Worker) sells an electronic switch called the Guardian CP, which has a programmable deadband. Without a CSV I would want to add another pressure tank to maintain the existing cycle frequency. I would add this after the filters so I have an initial supply of full-pressure water. With a CSV, I'm not sure because of the factors I mentioned before.

The other thing I will do is tie the outdoor faucets in before the filters, so they have a smaller effect on household water pressure.

Is anyone using the Guardian CP?

If you have a CSV with filters that cause a pressure drop, how is it rigged?

 

[6768rogues]

Just put in two tanks. Or you can put a tank anywhere you have room, since is simply has a tee fitting to the supply line.

 

[AntonLargiader]

I probably will, but I'd love to see some responses to the two questions. Nearly every discussion of the Guardian CP (and there are very few out there) mentions reliability issues but also they are from eight or ten years ago. Amtrol makes the same product under the Water Worker brand as well for $150. I also understand that the deadband on the regular Square D switches can be reduced.

I recharged the bladder in my tank; it was very low (it has probably been ten years since I last checked it). I used the lawn sprinkler to draw the water down, and found that I am losing a whopping twenty PSI when the sprinkler is running at typical pressure. That tells me I really need to put the outdoor faucets before the filters.

 

[larry4406]

The Cycle Stop Valve (CSV) is interesting....

Not sure I like the idea of increasing upstream system pressure to as high as 120 psi as sherrod624 reported as part of normal operation.

In new construction we only hydrotest supply piping to 100 psi.

 

[crucible]

I just recently installed a Cycle Stop Valve and their 4.5 gallon tank too and it works very well indeed (as advertised) as well as taking up much less room. I've experienced nothing noticeable across my sediment filter...about a 4 psi drop which is about as good as I could expect I imagine (I have gauges on both the input and output side of the filter). The valve control it comes with on mine is setup for the standard 40/60.

We purchased my house late last year and it came with a very old 25 gallon pressure tank and valve combo that fed a 4x10" sediment filter and then a old GE softener. We had occasional hydrogen sulfide (egg smell) that was not tolerable in the long term, and a good amount of sediment, and if you tasted the water pre-filtering, you'd taste metallic water. Lab testing indicated hard water and ferrous iron. Our well pump is 352' in a total depth of 370'-ish.

So, I researched (ok, obsessed) for the next few months and based on my lab results and my research obsession, bought and installed:

• New CSV and thier 4.5g tank-->
• Rusco Spindown Trapper sediment filter-->
• 4"x20" Pentair Big Blue sediment filter with in/out gauges and 50/5 micron dual graditent filter-->
• Genesis iron filter with ozone generator (the output piped so that my outside hoses get this output as well so the dogs don't get metal tasting water)-->
• Genesis high efficiency softener (dropped my salt usage by maybe 75% from the previous GE softener in the house).

The iron filter cleans itself and regenerates the oxygen/ozone bubble every three days, and the softener goes weeks without needing brine regeneration...even at our water usage with two kids.

We have great water now (and this also gave me the opportunity to play with PEX for the first time too in many of the connections...I'm happy with how it turned out and can output a pic if wanted).

 

[larry4406]

Crucible - I would like to see pictures of your setup.

On the Rusco sediment trapper, which model did you use and how did you select the mesh size? If you select the wrong mesh size as determined thru trial and error, can you change the internals only? http://www.rusco.com/index.php/product1/spin-down-and-sediment-trapper-filters.

I would also like details on your Pentair filter setup.

I see your in Northern Va. I'm in Warrenton.

 

[crucible]

Crucible - I would like to see pictures of your setup.

On the Rusco sediment trapper, which model did you use and how did you select the mesh size? If you select the wrong mesh size as determined thru trial and error, can you change the internals only? http://www.rusco.com/index.php/product1/spin-down-and-sediment-trapper-filters.

I would also like details on your Pentair filter setup.

I see your in Northern Va. I'm in Warrenton.

I'll take a couple and upload this evening.

Re: the Rusco

I went with their 100 mesh, which according to their chart is 152 microns....mostly on a guess based on the visual size of the sediment I see. The screens are replaceable and on Amazon even. So far, the 100 mesh is seems to be working pretty well for much of my sediment as my Big Blue filter after it is showing only a 5 psi drop between the input and output after 1.5 months-right about where it was new. My version: https://www.amazon.com/Rusco-1-100ST-F-Polyester-Sediment-Trapper/dp/B005VPMMSW/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=home-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1535458711&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=spind+down+trapper

The big blue I have came from here https://www.servapure.com/Serv-A-Pure-711002-BBFS-2-SED-20-Big-Blue-Whole-House-Sediment-Removal-Water-Filter-System_p_1954.html, but there's a good many manufacturers/vendors out there that sell compatible "big blue" filter housing that use 4"x20" filters (of which there's bazillions of different filters of all kinds available too).

Purcellville here!

 

[ard]

OT...Just sharing misery...

5HP well down 380ft

Water stopped 4 weeks ago on a Saturday. Troubleshot to the well head- ower OK, overcurrent on the controller pops after 4-5 secodnds. Called the pump guy (Installed a new pump 18 months ago). He came over monday, bad controller.

$500.

Next week I get a leak in a 2" main about 120 feet away. Dig it all up, wrestle fittings and pipe.

Week after, out of town again- no water. Pump guy. "Amazing, new controller is bad".

Nope, calls back in 45 min- bad motor.

Warranty covers pump, not labor.

$1200.

New pump/motor, check valves, etc, etc

All good.

A week later..... another leak, this is under the pump house in a 2" schd 40 elbow ...after filtering the 2" routes down through a sleeve in the slab, elbow and runs 400ft to the house.

Concrete saws, 80lb jackhammer.... excavate under pumphouse building and foundation to replace this section of pipe. (This one I did, Saturday project....)

Hopefully done with 'water ****' for a few years....

 

[crucible]

I'll take a couple and upload this evening.

Hopefully attached....

 

[kbuhagiar]

Hopefully done with 'water ****' for a few years....

Yikes! What brand pump/controller?

We have a place in Sonora, just installed a well pump last year; newfangled kind with the variable-demand controller. So far so good...

 

[larry4406]

Hopefully attached....

Thanks for the pictures. Looks like a nice setup.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Thanks, crucible. So everything is downstream of the CSV but your outdoor taps don't go through the softener. What pressures are your switch and CSV set to, and do you know how low the household pressure drops under full demand?

 

[crucible]

Thanks, crucible. So everything is downstream of the CSV but your outdoor taps don't go through the softener. What pressures are your switch and CSV set to, and do you know how low the household pressure drops under full demand?

Correct on the setup.

The standard 40/60...their Psidekick kit comes with a new switch.

While I've never tested what it would do if all taps were turned on, we've not had a problem with standard usage...and for my family that means potentially dishwasher, toilet, clothes washer, and a shower going at the same time for some limited period. (Typically though, it's not all of those things at once of course.) It's never dropped below 40psi with the CSV and its new switch, but I had that happen a few times in the old switch where inexplicably it didn't kick on for whatever reason when it hit 40psi and just kept dropping until I reset it.

Pump/valve usage is based on demand, so with no usage, pressure stays at whatever it was between the 40/60 range before the last demand stopped. With constant usage, after using the pressurized 4.5g tank, the valve will have the pump operate to meet the demand and give that 40+ psi output, until the demand stops. (Not 100% on/off like a standard setup, but at what it takes to meet the demand....all the way to what I assume to be the minimum to the highest output of the pump itself. I'm sure too well output plays a big role here...if you outdraw your well output, all bets are off I imagine.)

I see this noticeably in virtually constant water pressure in the shower compared to the more standard setup we had before where you could see the trajectory of the water out of the shower head change as the pressure went from 60 to 40 and back again as the switch triggered the pump.

I know I'm probably not the best for explaining it as I'm far from an expert. But they have a good forum on their site and a really good animation that helped me understand better CSV function vs. a standard setup: https://cyclestopvalves.com/pages/home-one-well-system

It kinda sounds like I'm selling this, but I have no affiliation or interest.

 

[AntonLargiader]

Their animation shows it working a bit differently but it isn't important. The pump kicks on at the low setpoint and the CSV maintains some intermediate pressure until the demand stops and the pressure reaches the high setpoint.

My main problem is excessive pressure drop when using two devices. I may just have more restriction in my water treatment than you do; which is why I'm thinking a second tank and/or a tighter deadband might be better for me. I still have some thinking and observing to do.