Well pump short cycling - what to check?

[KSJeff]

Sorry if this is the wrong spot.

I have had a submerged well at my house for years. I never touched it, just opened it up to fill my pool and water my garden.

Recently, I started hearing it filling my basement tank pretty often. The blue tank is a Well-X-Trol WX-202. 20 Gallon tank I think.

So, I went down to watch the tank. It's pretty steady around 20ish pounds on the gauge (and the gauge looks like hell, so it may be wrong). With all outputs shut, it sits for about 10 minutes and then fills for about 20 seconds. It does this around the clock. I turned it off last night, and when I turned it on this morning to water, it ran for about 20 seconds and turned off again. Pressure gauge was the same. Water pressure pulses a bit, but it's not very noticeable during a 45 minute watering session.

There is a schrader valve towards the top of the tank. I read somewhere to test that, and when I depress that water comes out. I hooked up a bike pump and each pump gurgled air in.

I'm not sure what to check or how to check it.

Any ideas from the Garage Journal?

Thank you!

 

[Milton Shaw]

Your pressure tank is bad if you get water out of the schrader valve. That is probably what is causing the pump to run so often you may have a leak in the system in addition to that problem.

 

[KSJeff]

That's what doesn't make sense to me. If I have a tank and no leak, why is my pressure steady (ish - I think) at 20 something and my pump short cycles because of the tank?

That's the part I don't get.

 

[KSJeff]

Looks like this:

 

[Piper27]

The bladder inside the tank has ruptured allowing water to come out of the valve. The only fix is to replace the bladder or replace the whole tank.

 

[matt_i]

That short vertical pipe which connects the pressure switch to the mainline can get clogged leading to erroneous operation of the switch, and thus the pump.

 

[05r50]

The rubber air bladder in your tank is leaking which allows the water to get past the bladder and that is why there is water on that valve on top off the tank.

So the layout is the water is on the bottom and the bladder is on top. Fill the bladder with air and that pushes down on the water applying pressure.

If the bladder is leaking then water is squeezing past the bladder when the pressure is down.

If you have the papers on the tank and the pressure switch it should tell you at what pressure the pump should kick on/off.

You can test it by using a air pump or compressor to recharge the bladder. But more than likely its time for a new tank.

 

[KEH]

Does that tank have a rubber bladder inside to provide pressure? If so, the bladder could be leaking. if that's the case cure is new tank with new bladder.

KEH

 

[Nowater]

If your tank is waterlogged, that is if there is no air in it, then the pump is trying to compress water. Water is generally incompressible, so your pressure will never build up to a likely cutoff pressure of 60 psi.

Alternately, your pressure gauge could be broken, or in need of adjustment.

 

[Piper27]

The rubber air bladder in your tank is leaking which allows the water to get past the bladder and that is why there is water on that valve on top off the tank.

So the layout is the water is on the bottom and the bladder is on top. Fill the bladder with air and that pushes down on the water applying pressure.

If the bladder is leaking then water is squeezing past the bladder when the pressure is down.

If you have the papers on the tank and the pressure switch it should tell you at what pressure the pump should kick on/off.

You can test it by using a air pump or compressor to recharge the bladder. But more than likely its time for a new tank.

Actually water goes into the bladder and air is on top outside the bladder

 

[KSJeff]

The bladder inside the tank has ruptured allowing water to come out of the valve. The only fix is to replace the bladder or replace the whole tank.

It doesn't look serviceable. Should I just buy a new tank? That will solve this?

 

[Piper27]

It doesn't look serviceable. Should I just buy a new tank? That will solve this?

Yep, before you put any water in the tank put in air equal to 2 psi less than the cut on point of the pump pressure switch.

 

[404]

It doesn't look serviceable. Should I just buy a new tank? That will solve this?

If you have the money, yes. Otherwise one can put air into it on a regular basis. The air dissolves into the water over time, thus the bladder design, as well as the need for replenishment.

 

[KSJeff]

If you have the money, yes. Otherwise one can put air into it on a regular basis. The air dissolves into the water over time, thus the bladder design, as well as the need for replenishment.

Right now, I'm just killing the breaker and turning it on when I need to water. Off when I'm done. Am I hurting it?

 

[Jahjahwarrior]

Your gauge is most likely bad. You can manage for a while with that method but it's not a good long term fix. While they are replacing the tank have a new gauge put in too.

 

[404]

Right now, I'm just killing the breaker and turning it on when I need to water. Off when I'm done. Am I hurting it?

That is a reasonable solution. The hurting comes from the start stop of the motor multiple times.

A lot of the wear on the motor comes from the starting. The fewer starts the longer the motor will last.

Turn the pump off, open the faucets, then fill the tank with air till it comes out of the faucets. Close faucets, turn on pump.

There are some pressure flush toilets that will explode if air gets into the line, hopefully you do not have one of those.

 

[Streetbu]

The tank bladder took a ****. Happens all the time. Replace the tank. As a stop gap measured You can add air, but open the drain to remove water as you add the air. Should take a minute or more with with water source open for the pump to kick on when you have the right amount of air in it?

 

[bob15]

Right now, I'm just killing the breaker and turning it on when I need to water. Off when I'm done. Am I hurting it?

It isn't hurting anything, but it probably isn't the best for the breaker (it wasn't made to be a continuously switched "switch"). i would replace the tank asap.

I have had good luck with Well-Rite tanks (I have 2 wells, each with a WR120R tank). http://www.flexconind.com/products/well-tanks/wellrite-well-tanks/

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

Replace the tank. It really shouldn't have much water in it, and none at the schrader valve.
In addition to the short cycling you are also probably getting some water hammer which is hard on the pump and pipes.

 

[Bruce4310TX]

lowes carries new tanks, yours looks like a bladder tank if so your air cushion is gone cause your bladder is bad replace tank. Before you burnout your pump.........

 

[Greeny]

If you don't use it constantly, then as someone else mentioned, just periodically drain some water from the tank and add air. When the tank fills with water, there's only a tiny amount of air to compress, so the pressure drops quickly and the pump cycles again. Get a decent quantity of air in the tank to compress, and the cycling will return to normal. Without the bladder, you will just have to drain and add air periodically. As someone else mentioned, this is risky if you have pressure flush toilets.

 

[KSJeff]

I have rural water. The well is just for the garden and the swimming pool.

 

[Gamy goat]

Sounds more like a hole in the well pipe Along with a bad check valve ,

 

[Cyberbear]

Had the same problem with my 80 gal. bladder tank, ruptured bladder and low internal air pressure. You can sometimes get by for a while by constantly replacing the tank inner pressure, but a new tank is the permanent fix.

 

[JerryB]

Pretty certain (as most others have suggested), your pressure tank is waterlogged. Adding air through the Schrader valve on the top of the tank will provide a temporary fix, but the air pressure will soon be lost because the air is entrained in the water. That is what the bladder is for: Keeping the air and water separated.

I assume you have a submerged pump in a well. By continuously manually cycling the pump on and off, you are putting a significant amount of wear and stress on it along with the breaker that is designed as a protection device, not a high use disconnect switch. Frequent starting is really hard on a pump. That is what the pressure tank is designed to prevent.

It's much cheaper and easier to replace a bad pressure tank rather than having to pull a submerged pump that has been mistreated.

 

[Charles (in GA)]

Water out the air service valve is a sure sign the bladder is busted. I do not think any of the well-x-trol brand have replaceable bladders. Look at the ID tag on it to see what size and go get another one. All of the comments about bad gauges, leaking pipes, etc are way off in left field. The top of the tank should be dry inside, if it isn't it is because the bladder failed.

 

[79firebird]

bladder is bad replace it ive replaced a fue for friends here haveing the same prob. as well as for a buddy in mexico when i was there no one there could pin point it they replaces every thing but the tank. Replaced the tank with a new composet one 5 year warenty there. steal one was 1 year. and lasted 2 years.

 

[boo coo tracks]

The quickest & cheapest would be to remove and clean out the 1/4" vertical pipe. (short pipe) as someone previously suggested! If that doesn't work, the proceed as others suggested. Let us know the outcome!!!!!
Tracks

 

[05r50]

Actually water goes into the bladder and air is on top outside the bladder

I hate it when I make a mistake so I went back to look it up.

I am going to say we are both 1/2 right. Lol.

From this image it shows the bladder is a membrane in between the water and the air and not a balloon type of bladder.

But it does give a good visual as to why you know you have a problem when the valve on top of the tank sprays water.



I would think even with a leak in the bladder you can test the pressure switch. It should come on and go off at the appropriate settings. The short cycling is because the pressure is falling off too fast. You would only need to know what the settings are for the pressure switch and a working gauge. My switch is labeled.

 

[T_R]

I do all my own well work and do it for the rest of the family too.

If you got water out the schrader valve, the tank is bad. Replace that. While you are in there put in a new gauge and pressure switch, they are both cheap and don't last too long, put them in as insurance.

Blow the tank up to 2 psi below cut in pressure.

If you still have an issue after replacing the tank, you may have a leak in the piping from the pump to the tank, it's not common, but it happens.

 

[ctfjr]

As a plethora of posters have said, the bladder is shot. The only real 'fix' is to replace the tank. Here is the best source I found for the WX-202
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B002WDODS8/?tag=atomicindus08-20

Around here almost all the 'pros' use Well X Trols

 

[phayzer5]

I had an over-active well pump during our recent home inspection. Cause was a busted tank bladder. Replacement for that and a new switch was in the 4-500 range I believe