Well Pump Stuff

[zendriver]

Couple of things.

I'd like to be able to run the submersible well pump off a 3500W gen (If I can), but I know nothing about the pump. Is there an easy way to figure how many watts it pulls?

Second

Some say get the pump info off the control box, where it is often noted when installed. Problem. There is no control box, It's wired from the pressure switch direct to the breaker box.

Is this bad, if so, why? how do I determine what to get?

Thanks

 

[PCustoms]

Couple of things.

I'd like to be able to run the submersible well pump off a 3500W gen (If I can), but I know nothing about the pump. Is there an easy way to figure how many watts it pulls?

Got a clamp meter?

Second

Some say get the pump info off the control box, where it is often noted when installed. Problem. There is no control box, It's wired from the pressure switch direct to the breaker box.

Is this bad, if so, why? how do I determine what to get?

Thanks

Mine was sloppily wired to a control box, and a starter switch. A few years ago I was neatening up the basement and realized the controls were all bypassed, the feed was just nutted to the pump wires. Oh and it was 14 gage....

Long story short it's now on a 15A breaker and runs fine off my generator, but I'm 8500W IIRC.

The start-up current is what's going to **** the genny down

 

[micromind]

A 3500W gen will start a 1 1/2HP well pump.

If a well pump doesn't need a control box and there are 2 wires (plus the ground wire) coming up, it's very likely 1HP or less.

2 wire pumps don't need a control box, 3 wire ones do.

 

[zendriver]

Got a clamp meter?



Mine was sloppily wired to a control box, and a starter switch. A few years ago I was neatening up the basement and realized the controls were all bypassed, the feed was just nutted to the pump wires. Oh and it was 14 gage....

Long story short it's now on a 15A breaker and runs fine off my generator, but I'm 8500W IIRC.

The start-up current is what's going to **** the genny down

Yes, I do.

I might upgrade the gen if needed

 

[PCustoms]

Yes, I do.

I might upgrade the gen if needed

Well figure out the best way to split the feed wires and take some readings.

I bet the pump is a lot smaller then you think

 

[Mytoolsupply]

In your breaker box what amp breaker is it on?

 

[Torque&Recoil]

I am normally into science, measuring stuff, but... yes, it will work. Not sure how much other stuff will operate, but yes, your well pump will work with that generator. In Indiana. Not sure about Texas. Sorry TX, but I know how deep your well are ! (just for the record, I do lke Texas, might even move there someday).

 

[zendriver]

In your breaker box what amp breaker is it on?

20A

 

[walta]

My well pump pulls 12.6 Amps. The well installer used 8-gauge wire because of how long the wire is to the bottom of the well. The electrician decided that an 8-gauge wire must have a 50 Amp breaker and connected it.

13 X 240 = 3120 if yours is the same that is uncomfortably close to your generator’s limits. I would like to use no more than 80% of generator's capacity.

The big question is how will you connect the pump to the generator? Transfer switch, interlock on the main or something silly?

Walta

 

[mike93lx]

Is this a 120v pump? In my experience, they are generally 240v... Is the generator 120 or 240?

 

[mm08822]

Part of gen sizing is load management. Sure the gen has to be large enough to start it. It also depends on what else is running/starting at the same time.

Start with the clamp meter. Hopefully it has a peak hold feature.

 

[zendriver]

Is this a 120v pump? In my experience, they are generally 240v... Is the generator 120 or 240?

It's 240v and the gen does have a 240v 30A outlet, that will be wired into a transfer switch.

 

[mike93lx]

It's 240v and the gen does have a 240v 30A outlet, that will be wired into a transfer switch.

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a 240v 3500w generator.

 

[mm08822]

Check the voltage on that 30a recept.

It might be a TT-30 if 3500w.

 

[mike93lx]

Check the voltage on that 30a recept.

It might be a TT-30 if 3500w.

I am guessing that may be the case.

@zendriver is this it?

 

[PCustoms]

I am guessing that may be the case.

@zendriver is this it?

My guess is, being a generator, it's a twist lock...

But I'm also assuming zendriver was capable of verifying he has the correct voltage generator

 

[American Locomotive]

My submersible well pump started on my 3500w 240v generator. But its only 1/2 or 3/4 hp.

 

[sparky 1971]

I in the camp that has never seen a 120/240 volt generator less than 5000 watts. Damn good chance it's a tt-30 or L5-30. I'll be the first to admit that it could be 240 and I've never seen one.

Tt-30

www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/husqvarna-reg-3-500-running-4-375-starting-watt-dual-fuel-portable-inverter-generator/033027/p-1642874322543977-c-10107.htm?exp

L5-30

https://www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/generac-reg-2-500-running-3-300-starting-watt-gasoline-portable-generator/g0071532/p-1642874267960438-c-10107.htm?exp=false

 

[zendriver]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a 240v 3500w generator.

https://www.harborfreight.com/generators-engines/generators/3000-8000-watt-generators/4375-watt-gas-powered-portable-generator-with-co-secure-technology-epa-59207.html

I'm assuming I can run 240v loads off it.

If it's not usable, I'll get something else.

 

[zendriver]

I am guessing that may be the case.

@zendriver is this it?

It's jack is twist lock

 

[Norcal]

It's jack is twist lock

It's only a Twistlock® if made by Hubbell, otherwise it's a locking device.

 

[zendriver]

It's only a Twistlock® if made by Hubbell, otherwise it's a locking device.

Their words, not mine.

I assuming it still twists.

 

[mm08822]

Their words, not mine.

I assuming it still twists.

What is the gen mfr and model #?

 

[PCustoms]

What is the gen mfr and model #?

Post #19?

 

[yatg]

plug is labeled 120/240

 

[dcg9381]

Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen a 240v 3500w generator.

I hadn't seen that one either (post 19). I would not assume (without testing/measuring) that this is gonna work. It says "15A breaker"... As it's really 3500/4300, this might do the trick.

ALL of the submersible pumps I've had in that hp range have a box. The "cheaper" ones, there are starting caps in the box. The expensive ones like VFD have some serious electronics. Never seen one just hard wired to pressure switch. No reason you can't do that if the pump doesn't need it.

I'd want a "pump protector". Typical depth for 1.5hp pumps is often pretty deep.. It'd different if you can pull it by hand. This is what I've been using, it'll show you amps (but not start up surge):

Cycle Sensor Pump Monitors – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

The Cycle Sensor is a pump system monitor that detects Rapid Cycle and Dry Run and reacts to either of these conditions by shutting down your pump. It does not prevent these events but protects your pump from damage in the event they occur. Videos with more information can be seen here.

cyclestopvalves.com

 

[yatg]

Manual says receptacle is L14-30.

Not a bad deal for a 240v gen. But they want 60 bucks for a wheel kit, couple of cheap plastic wheels and a handle.

 

[mm08822]

Ok, it is a 30 a receptacle, but the gen can only output 15a to it. Not sure whether this is a convenient work-around for connecting hardware compatability or marketing trickery.

I would go up a gen size to be more confident that ckt wouldn't be nusense tripping on pump startups. And what else will run simultaneously?

 

[zendriver]

I hadn't seen that one either (post 19). I would not assume (without testing/measuring) that this is gonna work. It says "15A breaker"... As it's really 3500/4300, this might do the trick.

Good point wondering since the pump breaker is 20A

ALL of the submersible pumps I've had in that hp range have a box. The "cheaper" ones, there are starting caps in the box. The expensive ones like VFD have some serious electronics. Never seen one just hard wired to pressure switch. No reason you can't do that if the pump doesn't need it.

I never noticed it didn't have one, until I actually looked for it. On my house, some things done quite well, other times corners were cut. When I worked for a plumber, seemed they all used one.

I'd want a "pump protector". Typical depth for 1.5hp pumps is often pretty deep.. It'd different if you can pull it by hand. This is what I've been using, it'll show you amps (but not start up surge):

Cycle Sensor Pump Monitors – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

The Cycle Sensor is a pump system monitor that detects Rapid Cycle and Dry Run and reacts to either of these conditions by shutting down your pump. It does not prevent these events but protects your pump from damage in the event they occur. Videos with more information can be seen here.

cyclestopvalves.com

I think it's around 100' typical of this area.

 

[zendriver]

Ok, it is a 30 a receptacle, but the gen can only output 15a to it. Not sure whether this is a convenient work-around for connecting hardware compatability or marketing trickery.

I would go up a gen size to be more confident that ckt wouldn't be nusense tripping on pump startups. And what else will run simultaneously?

I'll have to look into real world uses for this size a bit more, maybe a larger size gen is more appropriate.

I really just got this gen because it was on sale and I wanted something to run the fridge. When I finally needed it, the fridge was such a PIA to move out to plug in I decided I want to wire in a transfer switch, to the house.

If it does work, I'd probably just run the pump as needed then switch to something else. (or shut the gen off). Probably don't need the well pump, just be nice to have it available.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

It's 240v and the gen does have a 240v 30A outlet, that will be wired into a transfer switch.

https://www.harborfreight.com/generators-engines/generators/3000-8000-watt-generators/4375-watt-gas-powered-portable-generator-with-co-secure-technology-epa-59207.html

I'm assuming I can run 240v loads off it.

If it's not usable, I'll get something else.

Manual says receptacle is L14-30.

Not a bad deal for a 240v gen. But they want 60 bucks for a wheel kit, couple of cheap plastic wheels and a handle.

while it is a 30a receptacle, it is labeled as max 15a... breaker will probably trip when the pump is starting since in-rush is a lot higher

 

[dcg9381]

I think it's around 100' typical of this area.

You might be able to pull that. 100' of 1" PVC weighs how much? Plus wire? Plus pump.
Around here it's 500'. It's thousands to pull a pump. Why? Because no one can do it without equipment.
If you drop it, you may be drilling a new well, unless someone can fish that stuff out.

Get a pump protector. They've saved my *** many times.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

must be a really small motor if it doesnt have a start winding (3-wire+grnd down the pump shaft)

 

[micromind]

must be a really small motor if it doesnt have a start winding (3-wire+grnd down the pump shaft)

I've seen 2 wire motors that were less than 1HP. They were PSC type with the cap integral to the motor. No control box needed, just blast the 2 wire with 120 or 240 and it runs.....usually.......

 

[pcmeiners]

Instead of guessing on your current draw use OHM's law as linked. For this calculation you need to measure the resistance from the start of the power source (the breaker). If 240v turn off the breaker and test ohms between L1 and L2, if 120V turn breaker off, test between black and white with the white disconnected from the neutral bus bar then calculate as below.
If no ohm meter pull up the well pipe, see label on pump, it is good exercise and learning experience, if it don't have a heart attack.

Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service

Electrical Supplies Distributor. Elliott Electric Supply is your local electric supply house. We Deliver Lower Cost, Quality Products, and Personal Service

www.elliottelectric.com

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Instead of guessing on your current draw use OHM's law as linked. For this calculation you need to measure the resistance from the start of the power source (the breaker). If 240v turn off the breaker and test ohms between L1 and L2, if 120V turn breaker off, test between black and white with the white disconnected from the neutral bus bar then calculate as below.
If no ohm meter pull up the well pipe, see label on pump, it is good exercise and learning experience, if it don't have a heart attack.

Elliott Electric Supply - Lower Cost, Quality Electrical Supplies, and Personal Service

Electrical Supplies Distributor. Elliott Electric Supply is your local electric supply house. We Deliver Lower Cost, Quality Products, and Personal Service

www.elliottelectric.com

would need to subtract the resistance of the wire as well. which is easy if the footage and gauge is known.

 

[Bert_]

I in the camp that has never seen a 120/240 volt generator less than 5000 watts. Damn good chance it's a tt-30 or L5-30. I'll be the first to admit that it could be 240 and I've never seen one.

Tt-30

www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/husqvarna-reg-3-500-running-4-375-starting-watt-dual-fuel-portable-inverter-generator/033027/p-1642874322543977-c-10107.htm?exp

L5-30

https://www.menards.com/main/outdoor/outdoor-power-equipment/generators/generac-reg-2-500-running-3-300-starting-watt-gasoline-portable-generator/g0071532/p-1642874267960438-c-10107.htm?exp=false

There are quite a few of the 4000W Coleman generators around. I have one, it's 120/240 output. I keep thinking about opening it up to see if it can be converted to 120v only. Wouldn't have a load balance.

 

[pcmeiners]

would need to subtract the resistance of the wire as well. which is easy if the footage and gauge is known.

The current draw is not just for the pump motor but for the resistance of the wire wire also, the resistance of the wire causes more current draw thus the need to combine the wire and pump resistance. Why would you subtract it?

 

[mm08822]

The current draw is not just for the pump motor but for the resistance of the wire wire also, the resistance of the wire causes more current draw thus the need to combine the wire and pump resistance. Why would you subtract it?

Since this is already a hard-wired install (not a portable system), the resistance seen at the cb terminals is what limits the current initially - which includes all wire resistance, connection resistance, and the motor winding. The inductive reactance of the motor winding eventually increases and becomes the primary current limiting element in the circuit.

Even with this info, then there is the time curve of the cb, which the OP will not have.

Buy it, run it, test it, return if needed........or just jump up a size and be done with it.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

The current draw is not just for the pump motor but for the resistance of the wire wire also, the resistance of the wire causes more current draw thus the need to combine the wire and pump resistance. Why would you subtract it?

Pump controllers are not rated for the wire they are rated for the motor. The wire isnt a factor as mm0822 explained it.