well pumps: cycle stop valves

[yeldogt]

Anybody use a CSV?

I need to upgrade my well tank -- it's at least 20 years old. The rest of it is older -- on closer inspection the manifold is galvanized pipe after the black plastic that enters the pit in the outbuilding from the well head.

I'm sure I will never get it apart anyway -- from the space given in the floor ... my guess is it has a non bladder tank previously. The current bladder tank is plumbed with copper up to the galvanized manifold and then a short length of black plastic. Look like a they did this to splice in the new tank.

Anyway the CSV seems interesting ... although it runs to 60lb ...my memory is mine is a 30-50 switch. It's a deep well with 3/4 pump

 

[Hobby_Man22]

So what's the problem? Mine is a non bladder tank, works fine.

 

[JRC3]

Had one for a few years now.

In my experience, with my original 25yo well pump and the new one that got replaced a few years ago because of casing repair...On the pump side of the valve the pressure climbs a bit (IME nearly 20psi), I've found that increasing my house pressure lowers it, which is great because I get more pressure in the house (45-65). The only downside is I lose capacity in my pressure tank (PT). But since the CSV is doing its job the PT doesn't matter as much. They say you can run a small PT but I'll always run the biggest I can, a 44G in the crawl space.

Greet for irrigation and great for nice consistent showers.

Here's a bit of discussion. https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showpost.php?p=8340462&postcount=28

This pic was taken when I ran the switch about 35-55, and the valve is set at about 51. Notice the pressure difference on both sides of the valve when it's running. At 45-65 and the valve set at 61, the pressure on the well side runs around 72 or so instead of 78.

 

[JeepJohn62]

I have been somewhat fascinated by these devices, but have not purchased one. Are there any downsides to their use? Looks like a smart way to regulate flow in a well pump system.

Sent from my SM-A102U using The Garage Journal mobile app

 

[BD1]

I would go with a bladder tank.
The non bladder ones, I had issues with the air volume control leaking after a few years.
There is not one on a bladder tank.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JRC3]

I have yet to experience a downside. Makes my small 1/2hp, 12 gpm well pump do things as effectively as possible.

I have an iron filter that regins every 3 days. It runs for about 15 minutes at the 12gpm well pump max, that would put quite a few cycles on the pump and switch without the CSV. The consistent higher pressure should also make the filter backwash more effectively, the media is heavy and harder to lift during backwashing.

I also use a big RainBird impact sprinkler on a tripod and it doesn't run properly at low pressure. The thing is really meant for a bigger well but I get by with the CSV.


Oh, and it makes flushing the chlorine go faster during annual well sanitizing.

 

[drboom]

I've found the CSV quite helpful in maintianing pressure during longer showers while avoiding cycling the pump which should extend its life. The owner is also quite helpful and responsive so email him with any questions. He is also active on Terry Love's plumbing forum which has some highly knowledgeable people on it.

 

[JRC3]

The owner is also quite helpful and responsive so email him with any questions. He is also active on Terry Love's plumbing forum which has some highly knowledgeable people on it.

Yep, I talked to him a bunch via PM and on the TL forum. Great forum, everyone eager to help and lend quality advice. It's much like TGJF.

 

[yeldogt]

I guess my only worry would be the added pressure on the pump side plumbing .... not really knowing all the ages of the well.

 

[JRC3]

I guess my only worry would be the added pressure on the pump side plumbing .... not really knowing all the ages of the well.

The main reason I bought the CSV in the first place was to extend the life of a well in a foreclosed home I bought. I didn't know its age or abuse* and wanted to keep it going til I could replace the pump.

*I knew it's been abused because there had been 4-7 people living here, and also the 20 gallon PT was water loged...Laying next to it in the crawl space was the previous 10 gallon. Unacceptable sizes.

Here's the thing, increasing pressure at the surface (pressure switch) 10 psi makes the sub pump work like it's 23' deeper. A quality sub well pump is probably good for 400', and at least 200' for a cheap on...So lets say your well is 100' deep, making the pump work like it's operating at 123' is well within its range, it won't bat an eye. I guess there could be other variables...Like solid cast drop pipe or something. Anymore it should be black polly, or even blue. My 28 year old drop pipe was blue poly good for 250 psi.

How deep is your well? As usual around here, posting your location also helps in questions like this.

 

[yeldogt]

Don't know the depth of the well ....

We bought this property as a weekend place back in 2006 .... my only concern with the well at that time was the quality of the water. Know it's a deep well as we have a thick layer of shale .... it's not far rom the Delaware river in PA .... but, it's 100's of feet. Maybe not 400 ... but not 50.

The owner simply said they replaced the pump .... but, he bought the house in the early 90's. I got the impression in was more recent vs back in the early 90's. Have no idea if you have to replace the pipe when you replace the pump ... if you don't he did not if the rest of the place is any indication.

I have bought many houses in my day ... while I have become an expert on septic systems (fixing them) ...have never had to touch any of my wells.

The current system is working fine ..... The property is undergoing a full rehab and I have a new water line to the house. I'm sure the second I touch any of the old plumbing for the well --- I will have problems.

I want to just remove all the old stuff .... connect all new to the black 1" line coming in from the pump and then connect up the new 1" line to the house.

 

[JRC3]

I was worried about the same and after talking to others over at TL, I realized it's not the concern I thought it was. There's a well guy around here, we'll see if he stops by.

 

[larry4406]

Here are some similar threads where cycle stop valves are discussed. Maybe some nuggets in them for you.
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=415229
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=138747
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?p=7177454
https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=358388

 

[SARG]

Just installed a CSV last week in my replacement system.
JRC3 is correct about Mr. Austin ( AKA Valveman ) being helpful. He's active on several plumbing forums and walked me through several issues I had.
I installed my old system in 2006 and both the heater & pressure tank were working ... but overdue for replacement.
Now that the tank assembly is new I notice the pump check valve that's down 200 feet has a leak ... the system cycles about once an hour without water usage.
I have the local "pump" man coming next week for the replacement of the Myers 3/4 that was put in the well in '92. 28 years is a good run and I'll save it for a back-up because I have another well that was put together in the early eighties.... and it's only used to fill my wife's 50 gallon watering tank I built on a trailer.

 

[JRC3]

If you get bored, throw a pressure gauge on the pump side and lets see what yours reads.

 

[SARG]

I doubt I'll become that bored ...... you can see by my layout there's no convenient place to tap it in.

 

[JRC3]

..... you can see by my layout there's no convenient place to tap it in.

Anywhere in that section of black poly... *snip, crimp, crimp* LOL

 

[My Old Tools]

Modern way of doing this is a 3 phase pump and a programmed VFD to maintain whatever pressure you want to set. It just varies the pump speed to maintain the pressure, making it easier on the pump. If you are not ready to replace a single phase pump, a CSV may be an ok solution.

 

[larry_g]

Modern way of doing this is a 3 phase pump and a programmed VFD to maintain whatever pressure you want to set. It just varies the pump speed to maintain the pressure, making it easier on the pump. If you are not ready to replace a single phase pump, a CSV may be an ok solution.

This is the route that I took. One of the advantages I found is thatthe pump will run on a generator because it has little inrush current and it ramps up to speed as necessary. If only turns fast enough to supply the water being used and if I have all the sprinklers running, 3 #35 rainbirds, it will overspeed the motor to keep up. Not sure how a CVS valve would handle this? It has served me well for over ten years here at this place.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[FFRKing]

I installed a CSV about 6 years ago and haven't had any issues. Definitely like the constant water pressure. Mine is set about 50 psi. I did install a 20 gallon pressure tank because I didn't like it kicking the pump on every time the toilet was flushed.

Chris

 

[dcg9381]

I've done several wells, we're now on rain water collection. I run a 2hp pump and now use a CSV. The reality is that the CSV out performs a traditional pressure tank in SOME cases. There are cases where the CSV is going to have more cycling than a traditional pressure tank. We run almost 70psi at the pump, as the water main is more than 300' up a hill to a 3-story residence.

The best case, probably, is to use both a CSV and a pressure tank of substantial size, but that's the most expensive case too.

IF you've got a pump that is several 100 feet down in a hole, make sure that you get a "run dry" and "overcycle" protection on your pump. I installed the one that is also sold by the CSV guys and it works great... These can save a lot of money.


Neighbor had a fancy VFD system on her well - it didn't work great until they got an adequate pressure tank as a buffer. My concern with VFD would be that electric motors are designed to operate optimally at one particular voltage/load point...

 

[crucible]

I also have a CSV with a standard (small) pressure tank-it's worked very well, and the constant-like pressure is real. Occasionally, extreme draw will seem to outpace supply, and the CSV will gradually lose pressure lower than the switch...this isn't an issue with the CSV however.

If ever I need to re-do a well system, I will add another CSV.