Well Questions

[DBP]

So I need some help.

We recently bought a house in northwestern Alabama that is hooked up to city water. But in the middle of the front yard is the original well pipe sticking up put of the ground.

It is a 6" steel pipe well. It was open when we bought the place but I have since put a cap on it.

I confirmed in the basement that there is an abandoned water line coming in the front of the house with electrical running out of the house. But at the well there is nothing exposed. Im sure the remnants are buried near the well.

Im originally from MN so I was looking down the pipe for a pitless connection but there doesn't appear to be one. Someone mentioned that it was probably all above ground, the pump or some sort of connection. Im not sure. There are no local well companies near me so im trying to figure this out.

I'd really like to use this if possible for irrigation and filling the pool when needed etc. Honestly if the water tested good id figure out if I could use it in the house as well. Who knows. I like to be somewhat self sufficient if needed.

I tried to measure the depth, I dropped a fishing line with a weight until it stopped and it appears to be about 150 ft deep and then I did it with a bobber and that stopped at about 78 feet down.

So what im trying to figure out is, how could a guy go about using this? Pumping water out etc. If there is no pitless connection down in the casing what does the setup look like on top? Im used to a pressure tank in the basement etc...

Sorry for the overload of information but I just wanted to get as much info in here as possible.

Thanks!
Danny

 

[PopcornSutton]

There are deep well manual pumps available. Are you in a freeze zone?

 

[pcmeiners]

There must be well drilling companies around you. Research with your county and state to see if you can find the original driller who can provide info. There must be a reason the well is not used, possibly it is contaminated (unlikely), it ceased supplying enough water, or it has an unusual mineral content. A drilling company could answer those questions but it will cost you unless they can find the original drilling company or documentation concerning the well. There is a company which maintains well information, if there is any, at a small cost sorry I do not remember the name.

 

[NWOhioChevyGuy]

Here county records would have the information on the well from when installed (if not too old)

Lots of ways to do this, but IF you can find the driller it would be easier.

 

[djbmw]

Pitless are generally for areas that freeze over in winter. If your new location doesnt freeze in winter then you drop the pump in and have the water line come out the top, into a 90 degree fitting in the well cap.

You'll need to test the water, as well as the recovery rate, to see if the well is usable or not.

 

[woodscaper]

Probably the reason it was abandoned is because long after the well was drilled and used, the town installed city water and the house was connected to that. In all likelihood, there is nothing wrong with the well or the water. Get it tested and have a plumber that knows about deep wells come in and put a pump back in. Dig a hole next to it you will probably find the pipe and or wiring to the house. It's a great option to have if you need water to fill a pool or garden, you don't have to buy water.

 

[Codyboy]

As far as the setup mine has the pressure tank right at the wellhead.
The pump is down the hole connected to threaded pvc well pipe .
The well is 255 ft deep but I think the water level is around 180ft.

 

[NUTTSGT]

Keep in mind, if you intermingle well water with city water in the lines of your home, you're going to need a back flow preventer.

The AHJ may require it to be professionally installed and tested annually. I'd suggest you make a phone call or stop by and inquire before getting too deep into the project.

I don't think you want to be on the hook for contaminating the municipal water system.

 

[micromind]

Most likely the well is perfectly fine but when city water was installed the owner was required to abandon the well and connect to city water.

You'll need a submersible pump and a well seal to match the pipe size. Note that this is good only where it doesn't freeze, otherwise you'll need a pitiless.

 

[DBP]

Thank you to everyone for your replies.
So a couple of things to clear up.

I am assuming the well was drilled 50 years ago when the house was built. And yes, Micromind, I belive you to be correct. The city ran water out beyond city limits and hooked everyone up. Thus just abandoning this well.

As for finding out who put the well in. I'll say this. Im in an area that records must've been kept in a notebook on the dash of someone's truck and then tossed when the notebook was full!

I was told this house was on septic when I bought it. Confirmed that with the city and then called a septic guy He came out and dug up my yard just to find it was still hooked up to city sewer which had been abandoned years ago. No one knew anything until digging up the yard. Ended up with the city installing a new septic system for us.

In MN there is a well number on every well and you can go to the state and get the info. I bet this well was put in 50 years ago for cash and nothing was ever recorded.

I've checked around and talked to locals trying to find the local well guy. No one knows of one and closest ones are an hour away.

So my plan is to try and figure out a budget friendly way to run some water out of it and have it tested. It may only be good enough for irrigation, which would be fine.

I understand the need for a back flow setup if I were to run it into the house again. I appreciate the insight on that.

We are on an area that may drop below freezing at night a few times a year. If I can get it pumping water, maybe id build a little well house around it as that seems to be what they used to do down here or I just shut it down when it gets cold and drain the pressure tank etc... who knows?

Its not worth the investment or time to dig it all up and do a pitless set up.

I am just hopeing I can come up with a budget friendly way to water the lawn and fill the pool when needed.

Thank you to everyone.

 

[dcg9381]

Most likely the well is perfectly fine but when city water was installed the owner was required to abandon the well and connect to city water.
You'll need a submersible pump and a well seal to match the pipe size. Note that this is good only where it doesn't freeze, otherwise you'll need a pitiless.

This is often the case.. Cities often mandate use of city water so they can make back the revenue on the infrastructure.

Note, it's good that you've measured 60+ feet of water, but that only tells part of the story. Wells have a "recharge rate" and water tables can shift a bit. Your well "recharge rate" is unknown, but it's worth a shot.

Submersible pump (off the bottom) + well cap (below). You'll also need a pump controller (to protect from dry-run). Be very careful not to drop the pump in the well, but 100' should be semi-managable by a single human if you build something over it to help you drop it in there.

 

[yatg]

Be very careful not to drop the pump in the well, but 100' should be semi-managable by a single human if you build something over it to help you drop it in there.

Submersibles should have a loop on them to connect a safety line. Use something non-stretchy and non-organic for the safety cable, either real good nylon or poly rope or s.s. cable. When you're lowering the pump, tie off the line to something on the surface so you can pull it back up if you drop it. Just before you're ready to set the cap, tie off the line to the bottom of the cap without any slack. Some well drillers don't like safety lines, but if they're properly secured at the top they won't fall in the hole and make a bigger mess. Use a continuous piece of heavy duty poly pipe as your downpipe and use some spacers so it won't rub the sides.



About 10-12 years ago I had to have my pump replaced. (I would have done it myself, but I didn't know anything about the well depth or down pipe and didn't want to get in over my head) The well guy pulled up 150+ feet of poly pipe by hand, we stretched it out in the yard then he fed it back in by hand. Pipe was empty because a fitting at the bottom had rusted out. Cheap bastards that installed the pump before used steel fittings instead of brass or sst. Luckily there was a safety rope because the pipe wasn't connected to the pump anymore.

Your pressure tank and controller doesn't have to be out at the well head. If you want to keep a low profile, put the pressure tank and controller in the basement and run the lines out to the well head.

Its not going to be cheap. Lot of money between the pump, pressure tank, plumbing and electrical. These days everything is made of gold.

 

[bluedog225]

I imagine it might be worth the effort to do a little exploratory digging around the pipe. If you can pick up some heavy gauge copper that might help. Of course, making sure the lines coming out of the basement are not hot.

Be nice if you could get some smaller pump down there and just run it into a cistern or water tank. For your purposes that might be all you need. And you’d get some good information on the recharge rate.

My Aquifer is 400 feet down. So I had to run 1200 feet of waterline from the road.

 

[NUTTSGT]

I'll second the pressure tank in the basement but just be aware of what you already know, connecting to the lines inside the house.

 

[dcg9381]

I'll second the pressure tank in the basement but just be aware of what you already know, connecting to the lines inside the house.

Large pressure tanks can now be avoided with "modern" Stop Cycle Valves... I went to the stop-cycle system and really like it.

You can get VFD pumps, but they are very expensive and have expensive controllers.

This system could be very basic, like a lake pump.. If you're just using it to fill the pool, I'm not sure that any type of pressure system is needed. Simply on/off. Still highly recommend a pump controller that has run-dry protection. A pump that's 100 feet down is probably at my limit of what I want to tackle. Well pumps in my area are at 500' - 600'. They charge thousands to replace them (labor).

 

[NUTTSGT]

Large pressure tanks can now be avoided with "modern" Stop Cycle Valves... I went to the stop-cycle system and really like it.

You can get VFD pumps, but they are very expensive and have expensive controllers.

This system could be very basic, like a lake pump.. If you're just using it to fill the pool, I'm not sure that any type of pressure system is needed. Simply on/off. Still highly recommend a pump controller that has run-dry protection. A pump that's 100 feet down is probably at my limit of what I want to tackle. Well pumps in my area are at 500' - 600'. They charge thousands to replace them (labor).

We have a shallow well and a TAP in teh yard for city water, not using it currently.

If I needed a simple shallow well system for irrigation or such, I think I would try something like this from HF.

1 HP Stainless Steel Shallow Well Pump and Tank with Pressure Control Switch - 950 GPH

Amazing deals on this 1Hp Stainless Steel Shallow Well Pump at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

 

[ericm]

Large pressure tanks can now be avoided with "modern" Stop Cycle Valves... I went to the stop-cycle system and really like it.

You can get VFD pumps, but they are very expensive and have expensive controllers.

If the run to the well plus the pump depth is far enough, using a 3ph pump on a VFD can cost less than a 1ph with traditional pressure tank. The savings are in the smaller diameter wiring. I think the 3ph pump motor costs less too although it's not as much of a factor. The OP's setup is probably not far enough. Mine in Oregon was.

This system could be very basic, like a lake pump.. If you're just using it to fill the pool, I'm not sure that any type of pressure system is needed. Simply on/off. Still highly recommend a pump controller that has run-dry protection.

At a minimum install a pump saver for dry run protection. They don't cost much and go in the control box that is usually at the well head.

 

[dcg9381]

If I needed a simple shallow well system for irrigation or such, I think I would try something like this from HF.

1 HP Stainless Steel Shallow Well Pump and Tank with Pressure Control Switch - 950 GPH

Amazing deals on this 1Hp Stainless Steel Shallow Well Pump at Harbor Freight. Quality tools & low prices.

www.harborfreight.com

No specs on that, but if you look up "suction depth" for similar pumps, it's 20-30 feet. The OPs well is too deep for this type of pump... He needs a "pusher" pump.... (submersible)

 

[pcmeiners]

"Its not worth the investment or time to dig it all up and do a pitless set up.

I am just hoping I can come up with a budget friendly way to water the lawn and fill the pool when needed."

Many of the suggestion have good info but the OP does not want to spend a lot of money. As is to find out the water quality, the recharge rate, piping and a standard pump,( not VFD pump) we are talking >$4000.

"If I needed a simple shallow well system for irrigation or such, I think I would try something like this from HF."

It would be nice and cheap but this is not a shallow well.

 

[yatg]

No specs on that, but if you look up "suction depth" for similar pumps, it's 20-30 feet. The OPs well is too deep for this type of pump... He needs a "pusher" pump.... (submersible)

From the manual, the specs on the Drummond pump are

Maximum Flow @ 0’ - 950 GPH
Maximum Head lift @ 0 Flow - 115.5′

"Effective flow decreases to 0 GPH as Maximum Delivery Height reaches its maximum"

There would be very little water coming out at 100', and none at 115'

 

[NUTTSGT]

No specs on that, but if you look up "suction depth" for similar pumps, it's 20-30 feet. The OPs well is too deep for this type of pump... He needs a "pusher" pump.... (submersible)

Correct, why I mentioned a shallow well.

 

[pcmeiners]

"There would be very little water coming out at 100',"

two drops per minute.

Maximum Flow @ 0’ - 950 GPH...... from the outlet on the pump, with no pipe or hose on it

 

[Wrench97]

Around here when city water came in you were required to switch to city and disconnect/remove the well from the house, it can be used outside for irrigation only.

 

[larry4406]

Normally wells get properly abandoned by filling with “neat” grout” to protect the aquafor.

Ie - filled with concrete.

 

[WisJim]

Many communities or municipalities require that existing wells be "abandoned" when city water is available. Abandonment usually means filling or sealing the well so it isn't usable. I would be careful about talking to any officials about an existing well when you have city water.

I see this has been mentioned since I started this comment.

 

[finn]

This is often the case.. Cities often mandate use of city water so they can make back the revenue on the infrastructure.

Note, it's good that you've measured 60+ feet of water, but that only tells part of the story. Wells have a "recharge rate" and water tables can shift a bit. Your well "recharge rate" is unknown, but it's worth a shot.

Submersible pump (off the bottom) + well cap (below). You'll also need a pump controller (to protect from dry-run). Be very careful not to drop the pump in the well, but 100' should be semi-managable by a single human if you build something over it to help you drop it in there.

The health department typically has a procedure that has to be followed when a well is abandoned. That includes packing / sealing the casing to insure there’s not a possibility of contaminating the aquifer with polluted ground water.

We had to certify this was followed when we replaced the sand point originally put in to service our cabin with a driven well.

I also understand that when municipal sewer and water systems are installed, there are requirements to properly cap and decommission wells and septics. It’s partly a health issue, but also involves insuring there is revenue flow sufficient to pay off the infrastructure development bonds.

 

[DBP]

I really appreciate everyone's input and ideas. I think just talking about this and hearing you all out, I have come up with a plan of how I "may or may not" do something with what I have on my property. At the end of the day, I don't "need" the well. My thought was that if I could come up with a way to get water out of it for the lawn and pool pretty economically it would make sense. I could run sprinklers for the cost of electric vs my water meter spinning out of control.

This last winter we replaced the liner in our in ground pool, 33K gallons of water running through the hose triggered a friendly visit from the water dept asking if they need to start looking for a major leak! LOL The thought of being able to do that again without it running through the meter sure sounds good.

Thank you to everyone for the ideas and input.

 

[pcmeiners]

The thought of being able to do that again without it running through the meter sure sounds good.

You might ask neighbors if they have shallow wells. If so you might be able to "drill" a well with water pressure.

 

[PCustoms]

You might ask neighbors if they have shallow wells. If so you might be able to "drill" a well with water pressure.

He has a well, why would he "drill" a second one?

 

[pcmeiners]

He has a deep well which would be very expensive to get water from, approximately $5000. If he could get a shallow well it would cost little, drilled mine down 59 feet with water pressure, only cost PVC and a cheap pump roughly $400.

 

[PCustoms]

PcCustoms, your on my ignore list because all you want to do is nit pick and argue, but I could not resist.

He has a deep well which would be very expensive to get water from, approximately $5000. If he could get a shallow well it would cost little, drilled mine down 59 feet with water pressure, only cost PVC and a cheap pump roughly $400.

Your back on my ignore list.

*You're

$5k to get water sitting 78ft down is a bit hyperbolic, but maybe I'm just nit picking...

Here's a basic pump:

https://www.supplyhouse.com/Red-Lion-Pumps-14942406-RL12G07-3W2V-4-Submersible-Deep-Well-Pump-w-Control-Box-3-4-HP-12-GPM-3-Wire-230V-Steel

I don't think some wire, some pipe and a bit of digging will east up another $4500 but I've been wrong before.

 

[djbmw]

He has a deep well which would be very expensive to get water from, approximately $5000. If he could get a shallow well it would cost little, drilled mine down 59 feet with water pressure, only cost PVC and a cheap pump roughly $400.

Where is that number coming from?! His well is already drilled and lined with casing. There's likely wire already to the well head and a corresponding breaker in the panel. All he needs (after a water test and recovery test), is a pump with appropriate power wire, a hundred feet of 1.5" poly pipe, a few misc. plumbing fittings, a new well cap,.. and he's back in business. The parts cost is nowhere near $5k unless he's hiring it out to "Mr. Rip You Off Well Guy".

Even if he needs a pressure tank and pressure switch,.. its still less than half of what you quoted.... unless he lives in some remote area where everything is 3x normal prices.

 

[PCustoms]

Delete

 

[pcmeiners]

Around here they charge $2500 plus tax just to pull a dead pump, attach a new pump ( (1/2hp worth $500) and drop it back down.
In the OPs case they would use tubing, not pvc, likely charge $600, as the wire and spacers need to be attached to the tubing, electric line marked up to$3.50 per ft . $550, pipe spacers $100, tubing adapters $150, permit $100 , water test $200, recharge rate test $ 200, check valve at the top $100. sales tax @9% $378, then they need to dig for the piping and electric at the surface clean them up and attach add another $200. Total $4778, pretty close for a guesstimate.


It good you do not live in the states, these price, if not more, would be in the ball park. The above price are some I know from looking into replacing new tubing and a new pump from a couple drillers. "Mr. Rip You Off Well Guy" that is what they are, they all think they are a gift to mankind. At 74 just replaced my well pump myself due to the rip off pricing quotes I got.

 

[djbmw]

Around here they charge $2500 plus tax just to pull a dead pump, attach a new pump ( (1/2hp worth $500) and drop it back down.
In the OPs case they would use tubing, not pvc, likely charge $600, as the wire and spacers need to be attached to the tubing, electric line marked up to$3.50 per ft . $550, pipe spacers $100, tubing adapters $150, permit $100 , water test $200, recharge rate test $ 200, check valve at the top $100. sales tax @9% $378, then they need to dig for the piping and electric at the surface clean them up and attach add another $200. Total $4778, pretty close for a guesstimate.


It good you do not live in the states, these price, if not more, would be in the ball park. The above price are some I know from looking into replacing new tubing and a new pump from a couple drillers. "Mr. Rip You Off Well Guy" that is what they are, they all think they are a gift to mankind. Just replaced my well pump myself due to the rip off pricing quotes I got.

Sounds like the bulk of those prices are labour, and not parts. Its an abandoned well so, no pump to pull. I personally have no problem lowering down a pump to save $2500. As long as you dont drop it, and have your safety line connected, you dont need to hire anyone to lower a pump down - especially if its saving $2500!

Im not a fan of how more and more people "hire things out" that could/should be done themselves.

 

[PCustoms]

Im not a fan of how more and more people "hire things out" that could/should be done themselves.

It's seems especially odd on a site like this, but I've been seeing it more and more...

 

[djbmw]

It's seems especially odd on a site like this, but I've been seeing it more and more...

100000% agree! And, as you said, im also seeing it more and more of that on GJ. A decade ago all of the users here were self-sufficient, bought tools that were actually used to fix things, etc.

Now,... i feel it's turned into a sounding board for "second opinions" on quotes/proposals they've received to have their mancard removed.

As long as we're still mobile, sane, and have energy.... we should be getting **** done ourselves.

 

[PCustoms]

100000% agree! And, as you said, im also seeing it more and more of that on GJ. A decade ago all of the users here were self-sufficient, bought tools that were actually used to fix things, etc.

Now,... i feel it's turned into a sounding board for "second opinions" on quotes/proposals they've received to have their mancard removed.

As long as we're still mobile, sane, and have energy.... we should be getting **** done ourselves.

I typically cringe at the phrase "man card", but I also read a thread this afternoon where someone couldn't find a shelf online so they could put a dehumidifier under their workbench...

 

[larry4406]

My previous house, I drilled the well casing and installed the pitless adapter, bought the pump, and set the pump with wire in the well using poly piping and safety rope. Also installed the torque boots.

Brother helped me keep the assembly straight on the ground and fed it to me as I carefully put it down the well without kinking the piping on the edge of the well.

Property had the well installed by the prior seller.

Was pretty straight forward.

 

[Skooterj]

Normally wells get properly abandoned by filling with “neat” grout” to protect the aquafor.

Ie - filled with concrete.

Yeah, when I saw in his original post that there wasn't even a cap on it, I thought OH F*CK!. How many years of who knows what flowing right down that pipe into the aquifer.

As for fixing the well, I would start with the electric. Is the wiring still good, because trenching new electric eats up the budget just to start. Then I would see if I could find someone to run a camera down the hole. Assuming that's all good, your looking at $500 for a basic deep well pump, plus half that for new piping and a real well cap, fittings, clamps, etc. Since you want to use it for irrigation, you've got to figure out how to either tie it to the house spigots or lay an sprinkler system. Sounds like the original line was abandoned or used by the city. A remote pump house holding the pressure tank would work if you didn't plumb it to the basement, all you would need is the electric. The most basic option would just to build the small pump house with a spigot you can use to hook a hose up to.

And anyone paying $2500 to pull a well pump on poly is crazy. Less than 300 feet, pull by hand. Anything deeper, get or make a pulling wheel and hook everything up to a tractor, ATV, your car, a horse and pull it.