Well room inside garage

[ckucia]

Not sure I like this setup, but it's what we have.

Well head is off to the side of the driveway.

There's a buried water line and electrical conduit that come out of the ground through the slab in the garage near the breaker box. Next to that is a pressure tank which has the well controller on a stalk.

Water lines for the house come out of the slab next to the pump line, but over the winter they froze so I had to run a temporary water line with heat line and insulation attached to keep the water flowing. The heat line circles the bottom of the pressure tank and runs along the entire supply line from the slab to the house.

I forgot to heat the little stalk with the controller on top, and that froze a few times, so now I have a little space heater pointed at all that. It's quite a waste of electricity.

Our water has some iron in it and there's a filter assembly in the garage. Before I put that in line, I need to makes sure the filter isn't going to freeze. I looked it up and it's over $600 new - I don't want to have to replace it. We have a new Bosch dishwasher I'm ready to install and I'd rather put it on filtered water from the start.

Maybe someday I'll get all this stuff out of the garage and into a purpose-built well house near the head, but for now, it seems like a good course of action is to mount all of it in some sort of enclosure that I could insulate and heat.

Originally was just going to do something stick built, but then it occured to me that using concrete blocks (with insulation) might be just as easy and, if I filled them, the thermal mass might be useful to have.

Looking for others with a similar setup I could learn from.

The garage is unconditioned and currently not even weather tight, but that's a subject for another thread. Suffice to say, it gets cold in there. I also wouldn't mind moving this stuff further away from the breaker panel. Just seems like pressurized water right next to 220v circuits is bad idea.

The pressure tank is on a few blocks right now, but it also seems like getting it up off the floor, or insulating the floor, might be prudent. I wouldn't have to kneel on the ground to work on it either.

Any tips or suggestions?

 

[gungatim]

maybe just toss an electric blanket over it set on low for the winter? otherwise build an insulated closet around it. foam board and some 2x's should be all you need.

 

[Falcon67]

LAst time we had a well house, it was a 3x3 or so box that looked like a small outhouse. 2x4 studs, R13 batts, heated in winter by a 100w bulb/small lamp sitting on the floor. Get a pallet and stuff it with some cut up R13, top with ply, then just build a small box around the setup. As above, get one of the heating pads that doesn't have an auto shutoff - that's what is in the race trailer laying over the fresh water pump.

 

[ckucia]

This winter we had a week of single digit temps. Would a 2x4s with insulation be enough?

I guess I don't need to make it a sauna, just keep it above 32...

 

[ishiboo]

No insulation is enough if you have enough heat. But you will save money on heating the space, and important time if the power goes out before it reaches freezing, the more insulation you add. It's a small enough and important enough space that insulating it to a large R-value would not be expensive.

I would not use an electric blanket or light bulb. When either burn out, you will find out the hard way. A 1000W wall heater is only $100. A 1000W baseboard heater is only $30, plus $15 for a thermostat. It will be more reliable.

 

[DaveOmak]

Use an electric heater to warm that space... My friends 100 watt bulb burned out and everything froze... I suggest 2 thermostatic controlled heaters.. if one fails, the other one will take over...

 

[JRC3]

Pictures might help. Right of an insulated stick built closet seems the most logical. 1000w might be overkill, 500W seems like it would be enough. Also that will only be 30" long. Sure it will cost to run it, but $10 or so for a few month seems very inexpensive compared to the equipment, plumbing and potential water damage it will protect.


BTW, this is why you don't want that rust filter or softener freezing. This was from the foreclosure I bought, so I too found out how much a good rust filter costs. And no, I did not put them back in front of the panel.

 

[RVDan]

The setup at my boss' house where I work sounds the same. I just built an enclosure out of 2" styrofoam. It doesn't get incredibly cold here but it was enough to freeze before I put the insulated box around everything. You may need a thermostatically controlled heater in your enclosure, but you only need enough heat to keep it above freezing.

 

[Falcon67]

This winter we had a week of single digit temps. Would a 2x4s with insulation be enough?

I guess I don't need to make it a sauna, just keep it above 32...

Make sure air can;t move through the walls and you'd be surprised how well it works. The little heating blanket in the trailer is set on Medium and the pump stays warm, the floor is 3/4 ply with zero insulation. The little 6 gallon water heater has a winter setting that keeps it above 32. We've had a bunch of sub-freezing weather this year - according to the weather service, double so far this year. Almost 30 days. Including 19 this AM.

Re - wellhouse: The only time the well house froze was on an extended week long sub freezing week and the thing that shut it down was the bitty 1/4" pipe from the tank T to the pressure switch. The lamp was moved from the wall to the floor and no more trouble after that.

 

[ard]

Stick built OR even sheets of rigid alum faced foam, taped on the edges, will let you make a pretty big self-supporting box to pop over it.

IMO *how* you generate a bit of heat is less important than having a way to observe temperatures. There are pretty simple components (amazon, etc) that will turn on a light when temps go below 32, 35. Id have a thermostatically controlled heater AND a way to warn me if the temp inside got too low. A simple bulb on the top would tell you at a glance 'the heater is out at the well'

 

[JRC3]

IMO *how* you generate a bit of heat is less important than having a way to observe temperatures. There are pretty simple components (amazon, etc) that will turn on a light when temps go below 32, 35. Id have a thermostatically controlled heater AND a way to warn me if the temp inside got too low. A simple bulb on the top would tell you at a glance 'the heater is out at the well'

For monitoring temp, one way is with a home automation hub and most motion and contact sensors have temp built in to them. Then you can set a push notification or text on your phone if the temp drops below a set point. I realize not everyone has a home automation hub, but I know they make pure wifi devices that don't require a hub, just wifi. They may even make one that senses temp and water. I know plenty of wifi automation devices in the $30-50 range but don't know of a specific temp device. Anybody know of one. I'll look later.

 

[ckucia]

I will try to get a few pics tonight.

All the pics I have are from when we moved in and the first thing I did was modify the pump setup when we found the pipes frozen to the house.

 

[ard]

For monitoring temp, one way is with a home automation hub and most motion and contact sensors have temp built in to them. Then you can set a push notification or text on your phone if the temp drops below a set point. I realize not everyone has a home automation hub, but I know they make pure wifi devices that don't require a hub, just wifi. They may even make one that senses temp and water. I know plenty of wifi automation devices in the $30-50 range but don't know of a specific temp device. Anybody know of one. I'll look later.

Agreed.

But there are $15 plug in solutions that are massively low tech... "hey, the red light is on in the garage window, heater must be out." But if you are not home, then not much good!

EasyHeat EH-38 Freeze Free Preset Thermostat

also King Electric has something.

just fyi

 

[ckucia]

I think I'm going to be looking for some sort of control that will support some sort of remote indicator. If it's cold enough to be a danger, I'm probably not going to be out in the garage.

 

[spudley]

Use an electric heater to warm that space... My friends 100 watt bulb burned out and everything froze... I suggest 2 thermostatic controlled heaters.. if one fails, the other one will take over...

Our low tech solution to the dreaded bulb burn out... at a trailer in northern WI we used 2-100 watt bulbs on a Y fitting with one bulb on a dusk to dawn outlet sensor. If the primary bulb burns out the sensored one kicks on. Never had a freeze up.

 

[rayra]

I'd work up some kind of curb / containment / diversion / drainage system to outside the garage, for WHEN something decides to leak. Otherwise everything downslope of the water system inside the garage is gonna get wet.

 

[B.C.Biker]

Like that idea Spudley. Low tech is good tech.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

One thing to think of if you end up building a well house over the well head. How deep is your well? If you have a shallow well and have a shallow well pump at the well head, no problem. If your well is deep (more than 20 ft) and the pump is in the well (submersible), be sure to plan for a way to pull the pump in the future in case it needs to be replaced. Friend of mine in AZ built a well house, had a 40 ft deep well. When his submersible pump failed he had to tear a hole in the roof of his well house in order to pull the pump. Lesson learned. Repaired the "hole" with a hinged hatch for "next time".

 

[ckucia]

Here are some pics - assuming they post.

First one is the current setup. Feed from the pump is that black pipe coming out of the ground right next to the conduits. Electric to the pump is sorta jury rigged, but it was in the single digits when I did it and it's a huge improvement over what was there when we moved in.

Second pics (sorry it's blurry - I never said I was a photographer), is where I was thinking of locating the well room. Basically the area under the stair going up, in front of the landing.

This is the filter unit I found in the garage. Seems pretty nice. It has a quartz bulb to kill bacteria. Oddly enough, it runs on 12vdc. I guess I'll need to set up some sort of power supply, or shell out ~$120 for the 120v powered version.


I had given some thought to drainage. Was thinking of using some spare sheet vinyl flooring to line the floor and maybe a few inches up the walls with caulk in the corners, and a simple drain on the floor that just runs out the side of the garage as I have no drains in the floor. If I raise the floor a bit, that should be relatively easy to do. If I keep a decent drain pan in there, that should minimize a lot of the mess.

I also found a stainless filter that's in a clear housing with a drain on Amazon. It's kind of a pre-filter that's cleanable and the collected silt can be drained off the bottom. So I plan on putting that ahead of the filter pictured to try and get most of the gunk out prior to the filters that need routine replacement.

 

[JRC3]

Wow, that is right next to the panel. Pretty sure you said the actual wellhead is located elsewhere, so no need to worry about pump replacement.

I'd stick build an insulated closet. Given the small length of pipe I'd almost consider heat tape. Maybe even wrap the lower half of the PT and then wrap the whole tank with a water heater blanket. Heat tape is cheap enough and you could double up for redundancy. The tape would run half as much so no extra electric use.

https://www.menards.com/main/plumbi...-water-pipe-heating-cable/p-1444444945460.htm

You said you had a rust filter. What media is in it? Mang-ox or BIRM filters also serve as a sediment filter. Little canister filters are a pain to maintain are are usually run half clogged.

 

[ckucia]

The filters I have are in the pic. Takes the 20" cartridges.

The one I"m thinking of buying as a prefilter is a stainless mesh.

 

[DaveOmak]

For the pre-filter, think about the "ring" or "disc" filter.. I have both ring and SS on my irrigation system.. The SS screen filter gets particles that fit perfectly in the perforations making it a PITA to clean... The ring filters, the rings separate so anything that gets into the "control" holes rinse out very easily... they come in different micron filtering grades.. I have been using the same ring filters for 12 years.. pressures up to 70 p.s.i. with no problems...

 

[ckucia]

I like those ring filters.

I also found another filter under the stairs that I hadn't noticed before. It's the same blue, but the sump is shorter and fatter than the 20 inches on the other. Not sure yet if I'm going to use it.