well this window wasn't here earlier

[69f100]

well we,ve had afe windows for a while, and my mom has mentioned that she wanted one in the garage. mentioned it, that was it, till today. came home about 2 and said "show me how to put the window in" so i searched google (seen it enough times on diy network i had everything memorized) well she kept nagging, so we got to it. after an hour of moving stuff and arguing about where to put it, we finally got to work. i actually ended up deciding for them because im usually the only one in the garage. we thought we wouldnt get much done today. . .wrong!!!

008 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
heres what we started with. usually my work bench is here, as well as the fridge

009 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
bye bye supports

010 by andrew snyder, on Flickr

011 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
note the second stud

012 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
there he is!

013 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
whole lot more cutting

014 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
new header and supports to fit the window right

015 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
well all be damned! we did something right

016 by andrew snyder, on Flickr

017 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
hard to see, but thats level (i really dont like that level)

018 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
got quarter of an inch to move side to side

019 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
LIGHT!!!!

022 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
note our beautiful cutting skills

024 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
we werent using the flashing. . .so off it went (broke off when you bent it back and forth)

025 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
with some holes drilled in the frame, and screws in, we call it a night. we started at about 4:30 and ended at 9:15
not to shabby for two first timers

 

[69f100]

the window is bringing brought forward to be flush with the stucco, and a 1 inch board will be around it. we still need to
-caulk it
-drill perminate hole
-shave stucco more flush
-enjoy it

 

[ovilla]

Nice job!!!

 

[Kilo70]

Looks good. Now I need another window in the garage.

 

[cwlo]

Just wondering if that is a double 2x6 for the header, and if you checked if it can handle the load on a 4 ft opening.

Chris

 

[69f100]

its a single 4 by 6. when we went to read some how to's and asked around, we were told it would be what to use. could we run into any problems?
also, got up early this morning, took a grinding wheel (masonry polish wheel) and knocked down the stucco. got to drilling and in about 20 min and a whole lot of back and forth and more grinding, the window is in its perminate resting home. noww onto some framing and finishing things.

 

[Walterchang]

That's a little level. It looks like you did a good job. You should invest in a larger level for bigger jobs.

 

[69f100]

That's a little level. It looks like you did a good job. You should invest in a larger level for bigger jobs.

id love to say "we need to get one" but instead im going to say, we have. . .three, and didnt use any of them for some reason.

 

[69f100]

002 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
solid!!

003 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
so there is it, sitting flush but un leveled at that point. we had just drilled the holes for the screws and painted the boards

005 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
what?!?!?!?

006 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
all the caulking was done. leveled and in solid. who did this part? yours truly. thats why i didnt take detailed pictures because i used a caulking gun for the first time, wasnt bad, but wasnt good.

007 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
looks kinda dark

008 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
dad found my camera. hello garage journal people! note: the dirty un organized rafters. those are next. going to get pictures when we do the white frame outside to cover up our ugly marks.

 

[nate379]

I was going to say the same on the level. My neighbor was building his shed and that was what he was using. "Everythings level"
I brought over my 4 or 6ft level and some stuff was off by more than 1/2"

 

[dittle fart around]

Nice job your ready to build houses now.

 

[69f100]

Nice job your ready to build houses now.

how about a shed to get the mowers out of the garage?

 

[earlthegoat2]

Christmas lights or party lights?

This is important.

 

[69f100]

Christmas lights or party lights?

This is important.

party!! haha. weird you mention that because new ones went up today. we burnt a bulb on the first one, and in taking that one down ripped a cord on the second strand, so everything went down, and new ones went up. also go some for the pool area. it is the summer time you know!

i dont even want to post a picture of when my garage was using those for lighting

 

[rockchucker]

Just for starters...The WORST possible thing to do to ANY Window is to cut the Flange off of the Frame of the Window itself. This is where most new Contractors go wrong as it is practiced these days. The Flange is there for a Purpose and it should be left on. What you should have done is frame the Window up as you did from the inside then cut out 1 1/2"-2" from the Framed in opening giving room for the Flange. Install the Window from the outside with the Flange attached. Never Nail or Screw across the Header of the Flange for Expansion and Contraction. This was if it ever settles there is room for that and it won't crack or bow the Window itself. Then you place Trim over the Flange on the outside of said Structure "Trimming" the window out and sealing it with Caulk. I have had to fix hundreds of Windows installed this way. The ONLY thing sealing the new window is Caulk. Not correct. Caulk Fails over time then the window leaks then compromises the Structure.



Sure you can get a bid for 10 grand to do ALL of the windows in your home. Then they are out there for a day cutting all of the Flanges off of the Windows and Caulking them in place. Makes me want to kill baby Seals when I see this going on. Usually with the Old Lady watching from her living room. 3-5 years later your windows are leaking and your walls are hosed inside because the Window did not do it's job. Contractor has a new business name and the window company can't be held responsible for the installer who has, in effect, completely RUINED the window before installation.


Sorry end rant/



.......Drum Roll........ and....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I can feel the air moving already!

Good show. Nice install for a window in a Garage under a covered area... Not good for the Northwest rainy weather or wet climates.


Since the Top Plate is doubled also I see no reason a 4x6 Header will give you any issues whatsoever. If it were a load bearing wall with a floor or second story above it would be a different ball game. Small shop, window is fine.

 

[69f100]

Just for starters...The WORST possible thing to do to ANY Window is to cut the Flange off of the Frame of the Window itself. This is where most new Contractors go wrong as it is practiced these days. The Flange is there for a Purpose and it should be left on. What you should have done is frame the Window up as you did from the inside then cut out 1 1/2"-2" from the Framed in opening giving room for the Flange. Install the Window from the outside with the Flange attached. Never Nail or Screw across the Header of the Flange for Expansion and Contraction. This was if it ever settles there is room for that and it won't crack or bow the Window itself. Then you place Trim over the Flange on the outside of said Structure "Trimming" the window out and sealing it with Caulk. I have had to fix hundreds of Windows installed this way. The ONLY thing sealing the new window is Caulk. Not correct. Caulk Fails over time then the window leaks then compromises the Structure.



Sure you can get a bid for 10 grand to do ALL of the windows in your home. Then they are out there for a day cutting all of the Flanges off of the Windows and Caulking them in place. Makes me want to kill baby Seals when I see this going on. Usually with the Old Lady watching from her living room. 3-5 years later your windows are leaking and your walls are hosed inside because the Window did not do it's job. Contractor has a new business name and the window company can't be held responsible for the installer who has, in effect, completely RUINED the window before installation.


Sorry end rant/



.......Drum Roll........ and....Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh! I can feel the air moving already!

Good show. Nice install for a window in a Garage under a covered area... Not good for the Northwest rainy weather or wet climates.


Since the Top Plate is doubled also I see no reason a 4x6 Header will give you any issues whatsoever. If it were a load bearing wall with a floor or second story above it would be a different ball game. Small shop, window is fine.

im reading this and its kinda scaring me. not so much for the garage window, if it fails we call a pro and say "well we tried" and all we are at a loss is about 50 bucks (what we have into it) plus him or her to fix it.

where it does worry me! is our house windows. we had them all replaced afew years back, i honestly dont remember them having the flashing. . . . im going to go check now because everything your saying does make sense.

 

[rockchucker]

Yes unfortunately it is common practice to cut the Flanges off of the Windows. Horrible SOB's that do it. If there is anyone on here that does this and is a Contractor I implore you to chime in to battle it out. There is not one single reason out there to cut the Flange off of a brand new window. They were designed like this for a reason. =) The Flange on the Window is there to Seal the Window and the Structure from the Elements.

Most of the time Contractors do this and don't even re caulk the old Exterior Trim of the Window. Since you are replacing the window itself then sure the window is fine but there is nothing to stop the Elements from getting past the 50 year old trim and Caulk already in place. So you have this nice new window and all of the Trim around it is leaking right past the window into the Framing and structure of the house. Looks good on the inside and it will take years for the water damage to show up inside so what does anyone care right? Everyone is long gone by then.


It takes time to do things right. It took a long time to do it right back in the day and it still does. Sure I can replace all of the windows in a house in one day. Will I? No. Usually if it is too fast to believe it is not done right. If it is too cheap to believe it is not right. Now in our times and recession right now every homeowner on the block is looking for cheap and fast. So they get **** work for cheap and it is done fast. This pushes all of the good actual BUILDERS and WOODWORKERS out of the picture. Why? So the homeowner can save a buck and have to redo all of it in a few years. Sure saved a lot of money huh? Yup. Especially having to do it twice. I could go on for hours. One of my pet peeves. Cheap Contractors and cheap Homeowners. They get along well so they can reconvene in a year or two and do it all over again.

Should be illegal.


Either or...Your window is fine as it is under a covered Shed Roof and you have no elements around it. Caulk it in place and enjoy it. If you install another one PM me for some help and I can show you how to take longer and do it right. =)


Doing it right ALWAYS takes longer.

 

[Zeke]

Rockchucker, you are correct, technically. However, I have personally installed more than 5000 door or window units. The typical prehung exterior door with brick mold attached does not have a flange and you know that. Even if the molding is left off for a "bald" frame, no flange. You can attach some flashing at that point, yes.

I have done 99% of my installations according to Hoyle (and all codes) but sometimes you have to fudge the job. I've made a "block" frame out of a few windows and inserted them in an opening. One instance I can think of was a masonry wall. No buck. No problems.

He got it done. It's under cover. Lighten up just a bit.

PS, if you want to see the invoices for the 5000 units bought and installed since 1985, I have them in banker's boxes in the garage. I've never had more than one helper, so I did them all.

 

[69f100]

okay, question. we want to make sure this is done good enough to last a good long while. would it be okay to fill in the gap with the non expanding insulating foam? (that yellow **** in the can), shave it, and recaulk over it?

 

[70redbee]

Now that the window is installed,it is too late for the flange. When you trim the outside there are several things you can do to help.

#1...lay a good solid bead of the best pure silicone caulk on the backside of the trim board before nailing it in place.
#2...nail the trim boards tightly to the window frame and to the stucco
#3...cut a groove approx. 2" above the top trim board the width of the window plus 2" beyond each side.
#4...bend a pc of flashing to go into this groove,flat to the trim board and bend again to come over the face of the trim.
#5...put a good bead of the same good silicone on the backside of the flashing,do not nail the flashing as the nail holes will leak at some point but find a way of holding the flashing in place unti the silicone sets up (silicone has adhesive propertys)
#6...caulk the flashing where it is embedded in the stucco
#7... caulk the trim boards to the window frame and to the stucco
#8...do not caulk the underside of the bottom where it meets the stucco to allow any moisture that may happen to get in will have a place to escape.
#9...do not be shy about the silicone on the back of the trim boards or the back of the flashing.
#10...you will have a window that will last for many,many years if done correctly, don't fret about the flange being gone...would it be better with the flange? yes but it is not the end of the world as many would want you to believe. You don't need to throw in the towel...just go in a different direction.
#11...Milt, would you have any further suggestions that I may have left out?
#12 finish it up and enjoy your new window.
#13...and one more thing,just remember ...everything needs periodic maintenance.
#14...paint the trim and window the color of choice.

 

[69f100]

030 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
well i got my bench cleaned off. scrubbed it with some oil soap and polished it to. must have scrubbed to hard, because took the finish off. no prob, good reason to sand and good stain.

but back to the window! redid the screen with a big roll of screen we had for some reason. cleaned it, and enjoyed. going to find a box fan tommorow, and leave it in there at night so it will **** in the cold air.


029 by andrew snyder, on Flickr
see all that suff infront of those shelves? it needs to be gone! quick!

 

[blue dog]

Now that the window is installed,it is too late for the flange. When you trim the outside there are several things you can do to help.

#1...lay a good solid bead of the best pure silicone caulk on the backside of the trim board before nailing it in place.
#2...nail the trim boards tightly to the window frame and to the stucco
#3...cut a groove approx. 2" above the top trim board the width of the window plus 2" beyond each side.
#4...bend a pc of flashing to go into this groove,flat to the trim board and bend again to come over the face of the trim.
#5...put a good bead of the same good silicone on the backside of the flashing,do not nail the flashing as the nail holes will leak at some point but find a way of holding the flashing in place unti the silicone sets up (silicone has adhesive propertys)
#6...caulk the flashing where it is embedded in the stucco
#7... caulk the trim boards to the window frame and to the stucco
#8...do not caulk the underside of the bottom where it meets the stucco to allow any moisture that may happen to get in will have a place to escape.
#9...do not be shy about the silicone on the back of the trim boards or the back of the flashing.
#10...you will have a window that will last for many,many years if done correctly, don't fret about the flange being gone...would it be better with the flange? yes but it is not the end of the world as many would want you to believe. You don't need to throw in the towel...just go in a different direction.
#11...Milt, would you have any further suggestions that I may have left out?
#12 finish it up and enjoy your new window.
#13...and one more thing,just remember ...everything needs periodic maintenance.
#14...paint the trim and window the color of choice.

First off, when the nail fin is removed it is a block in installation, this is how retrofit windows are installed all the time, as a matter of fact look at all commercial glass installation, it is done the same. Sure, having proper flashing installed over the fin is best , but then the stucco would have to be cut way back, then patched, anyway, this is under a overhang it will be fine.
The list above is good, pay attention to it, with the exception of using silicone, polyurethane is the best product. I use this

http://www.dhcsupplies.com/aaadhesives/adhcaulkmoistop.htm
Not all poly products are compatible with all butyl flashings either, this is important, for the product above we use moistop fortifiber flashing.
I am a certified Fleetwood,Marvin, La cantina, Di carlo, metal window corp installation contractor and have been installing high end windows and bi folding and multi slide units for a long time.
To the op, you will be fine, seal it up with some poly, add some trim on the exterior as in the list above, seal inside, drywall and paint, and bam, nice new window in your shop.

 

[Zeke]

Now that the window is installed,it is too late for the flange. When you trim the outside there are several things you can do to help.

#1...lay a good solid bead of the best pure silicone caulk on the backside of the trim board before nailing it in place.
#2...nail the trim boards tightly to the window frame and to the stucco
#3...cut a groove approx. 2" above the top trim board the width of the window plus 2" beyond each side.
#4...bend a pc of flashing to go into this groove,flat to the trim board and bend again to come over the face of the trim.
#5...put a good bead of the same good silicone on the backside of the flashing,do not nail the flashing as the nail holes will leak at some point but find a way of holding the flashing in place unti the silicone sets up (silicone has adhesive propertys)
#6...caulk the flashing where it is embedded in the stucco
#7... caulk the trim boards to the window frame and to the stucco
#8...do not caulk the underside of the bottom where it meets the stucco to allow any moisture that may happen to get in will have a place to escape.
#9...do not be shy about the silicone on the back of the trim boards or the back of the flashing.
#10...you will have a window that will last for many,many years if done correctly, don't fret about the flange being gone...would it be better with the flange? yes but it is not the end of the world as many would want you to believe. You don't need to throw in the towel...just go in a different direction.
#11...Milt, would you have any further suggestions that I may have left out?
#12 finish it up and enjoy your new window.
#13...and one more thing,just remember ...everything needs periodic maintenance.
#14...paint the trim and window the color of choice.

Well, I have done this a few times. Painted stucco will shed water and this method will work. Fresh or unpainted stucco will absorb water and the flange, flashing, stucco backing paper is the wall seal. So, "chucker" is still technically correct.

I, too, prefer polyurethane caulk over silicone, but the silicone family of caulks don't discolor as badly. So, I will use some on exposed parts, especially the colored ones.

I also don't caulk the bottom, but there can be some disagreement on this. After all, no water should be in there to begin with that needs out. And, bugs can crawl up in there. So, I sometimes do, especially on a window that is up high and pedestrians can see the bottom edge. They don't understand, so better to make things good visually.

 

[blue dog]

Listen to Milt, he sounds like he has experience and is not giving any bad ideas.

 

[Zeke]

Listen to Milt, he sounds like he has experience and is not giving any bad ideas.

Thanks for that. I haven't had many service calls for leaks in the 25 or so years I have been installing windows. Below I show a flange style, or nail on window, and a "flush fin" window cutaway. The nail on is the profile used for block frame installation with the fin removed.

The flush fin (right above) was designed to place over an existing opening, preferably with the original window jamb/frame left in place. This method somehow is approved by the code. If I even have problems, it's with the flush fin window. I can not guarantee no water intrusion (whether you can detect it or not) if the stucco is not painted or sealed. Water will get behind the fin.

So, all "chucker" was saying is that the water should be stopped inside the wall at the face of the studs or sheathing. In a perfect world, this would be done each and every time.

I've faced some much greater challenges than what we are talking about here. So, thanks again, "b-dog".

 

[rockchucker]

Rockchucker, you are correct, technically. However, I have personally installed more than 5000 door or window units. The typical prehung exterior door with brick mold attached does not have a flange and you know that. Even if the molding is left off for a "bald" frame, no flange. You can attach some flashing at that point, yes.

You are 100% correct about Pre-hung Doors. They have no Flange. Would you ever cut the Brick Mold off though? Or install an Exterior Door with only Caulk to hold it in place? Not a chance. I install Flashing above the Door above the Trim though. I also build and remodel in wet areas like the Northwest where we get 27 million days of rain out of the year. =) It will take more years to even have an issue in other areas. Most Exterior Doors have some type of overhang above them for protection also. This makes a HUGE difference.

Back to Windows... Most Windows have nothing. They get a direct beating from the Elements. That is why I try to explain things like this to people who actually don't know any better. Obviously you build so you have seen the horror of what some folks do on their own. Just trying to let Dude know.

I have done 99% of my installations according to Hoyle (and all codes) but sometimes you have to fudge the job. I've made a "block" frame out of a few windows and inserted them in an opening. One instance I can think of was a masonry wall. No buck. No problems.

100% agreed. Too many people "Fudge" the job on every one though. In Masonry I cut the Hole larger than the window and Frame it in with Pressure Treated so there is no need to cut the Flange off. Just trying to say that there is very rarely if ever a NEED to cut the Flange off of any Window as you stated above. Of course this is with Residential Building which is what we are talking about here. Commercial Building is a whole different game.

He got it done. It's under cover. Lighten up just a bit.

Not trying to scare as the installation is under a Shed Roof and it is highly unlikely to see any direct downpour. Just a rant due to all of the **** building and remodeling I have seen in my years. Sorry if I come across harsh.

PS, if you want to see the invoices for the 5000 units bought and installed since 1985, I have them in banker's boxes in the garage. I've never had more than one helper, so I did them all.

I do not doubt you one iota. No need to "prove" anything to me.