west of Philly - barn saving

[fotoflojoe]

You must have really been putting that sawzall through its paces. I touched base with my friend, we'll see if he has any points to make regarding the barn.

In case you're in need of any more comic relief....

On your next trip through our great state don't forget to stop by Hop Bottom, PA. Jugtown, PA sounds interesting, but not nearly as promising as Climax, PA. I think I'd pass on Big Beaver, PA. Lover, PA could be good though.

And of course, while not towns, the Spread Eagle Village and Spread Eagle Inn both sound like they're worth visiting.

OK, I'm done

HAH! HAH! HAH!

My wife and I visited the Lancaster area a couple years ago - I've been to ***********, and Bird-in-Hand. That's some beautiful countryside you have there.

Back on topic: rieferman, Mighty fine job you're doing. Right now, I'm renovating my parent's house - it's a run down old cape, but with good bones and lots of potential. I've received the same advise; "you should tear it down and start over". I guess those people don't see what we see.

Rock on!

 

[rieferman]

Curdy you're too freaking funny. Nice stuff!

fotoflojoe

I've received the same advise; "you should tear it down and start over". I guess those people don't see what we see.

I'm finally to the place where people are stopping in (people who I've never met in some instances) telling me "Boy that's a nice shop you have there, I never thought it could be saved". So it all depends on your vision I guess


Anyhow, I'm really writing to record this fact:

Electrical work is really hard and there must be a special place in heaven reserved for the people that do electrical for a living.


I say this because I'm figuring out my supplies list / project plan to have the electrical totally re-done in the barn... and it's just extremely mind bending for a first timer (yes, I'm bringing in a pro to inspect everything I do, and to do the hard stuff).

But, I figure, the worst part is usually figuring out WHAT to do, NOT the actual doing itself.

(note to self: later on when I'm cursing electrical work, re-read this post, have a beer, and laugh at yourself)

(added note on 08/24/09 - it's funny to go back and read this since yesterday the electrician buddy was here wiring the place.. I sure did a ton of work, but it went soooo much better with him here directing/teaching/doing the complicated stuff)

 

[rieferman]

garage door is framed. nice and square etc. (which is funny to see actually because the barn itself is so crooked [albeit way less crooked than before i started]) will start installing the garage door next

 

[rieferman]

ugh, last night was one of those "work your *** off for zero visual payoff" types of nights. I got one side of the garage door opening sheathed on the outside (not easy because the building isn't completely square so each cut is a custom) and worked on prepping the ceiling for track installation. Pain in the **** work. I just have to finish switching the flourescent lights from spanning joists, to being in between joists (else the door will bump into them).

I think I'll hire out the install of the door. My rule of thumb is: If I need it to be 110% perfect, and it's a skill I'll never possibly want to use again, consider hiring it out. In this case, with the low headroom kit and all the rest of the customization needed to make it work nicely, let's go with a pro. Pains me to do it, but I think it's the right call.

A neighbor stopped by to introduce himself last night. Sherman. 87 years old, has lived around the corner for 50+ years! He was really nice - he just wanted to stop by and see how I was saving this building. He told me he really appreciated me saving it - that he'd actually been in the building when he was a "young fella". It's always nice to have those random encounters.

 

[rieferman]

last night, I was moving flourescent lights in the parking portion of the garage. They were attached to the joists, and I was moving them to be in between the joists so that the garage door (to be installed) has room to go up and down.

Then

SPARKS

and

Darkness

I get a neighbor up to help me by holding a flashlight while I investigate.. The black wire on the particular light fixture that I was moving was poorly stripped and was showing bare wire for about 4 inches past the connection, and therefore was shorting out as I moved the unit (I guess I won't try to get away with moving live fixtures anymore!).

So, the decision to totally scrap all existing electrical in favor of redoing it all myself has been officially made. Nothing worth saving. I don't trust anything the previous owner has done.

Anyhow, cut the wires, capped each wire, taped each one, and will have to live with it like that for a couple weeks until the rewiring happens. Any issues with having the wires capped like that for a short period of time?

 

[rieferman]

well, relatively no work this weekend because my longtime best friend was in town from Boston for a visit. But, I did put him to work for a little bit and we got the garage door in place, I just need to do the track work next. I looked into hiring this out, and there's really a shortage of anyone willing to do the work - I don't know why, it's easy work. Shrug. And there's no way in hell I was paying the $405 that Home Depot wanted. Eff that. Anyways, I'm glad I've been forced into doing it myself because it's been easy so far.

After this, a little framing, a little window work, re-wiring the building, closing in the exercise room, and then I'm taking the summer off.

(added note on 08/24/09 - it's just hilarious all the times I've written "and then I'm taking off" or "just xyz left to do, no big deal". It's ALL a big deal, it ALL takes soooo much time and effort, and I'll NEVER be "done".

 

[rieferman]

well, yesterday was working out to be such a positive day, and then it went south in a hurry.

Here's how the day was supposed to go:
- finish drawing my electrical plan (wiring diagram)
- close friend's longtime best friend is an electrician. He's going to cut me a sweet deal later on, and was going to come over and review my diagram, my shopping list, etc.
- I would finish installing the garage door, working on the tracks.

Instead:
- I did finish drawing the electrical plan (more on that in a minute in case you have pointers for me), so that was good. I was even able to print out pictures of the items I think I need to buy so that I could verify them with the electrician.
- Then, my friend and his electrician buddy weren't able to come over for electrical talk.. too bad
- And then I get all the way near the end of the door installation only to figure out that I need to undo all my track work, cut 3 inches off the vertical track, re-drill holes, and re-install. 3 hours for nothing. AAAAAAAAAAARGH

Yeah, ****** night.

---

Anyhow, just gotta keep on keepin' on right?

So, the electrical.

Basically, here's what I'm doing, some of this is overkill:
- 100 amp service, new load center etc. Run from box inside the house, underground.
- 20 amp breakers for the outlets. Basically, I'm running a separate circuit to dedicate to certain things (like AC unit plug in, power tools area, mini-fridge/tv/stero area) and then otherwise doing a zone circuit type of wiring (like outlets on first floor west, vs. first floor east etc.)
- 15 amp breakers for the lighting. Broke building into 4 lighting zones, 2 per floor. Mainly using flourescent lighting. 3-way switches at each transition point in the building so you can turn off the room you just left, and turn on the room you're entering etc.
- I'm trying to think through how I'll ultimately use all the spaces.. Leaving myself some outdoor electric and lights, boxes for ceiling fans in certain areas, trying to picture where I'll really want heaters installed etc.


EDIT: Oh yeah, I almost forgot... Major score this morning at work though. Twice a year my company has an employee sale where surplus inventory is sold CHEAP. I got: 50 small hanging parts bins (with the hanging hardware), 3 larger bins/hardware, 4 large totes with lids (like rubbermade type of thing, but like 10 inches deep), hard case with rollers and extension handle and foam filled (I'll cut the foam to fit my set of smaller nail guns), a red metal tool box with two front sliding drawers, some wire brushes and some serious lubricant that I will use to repair the sliding barn door track (which I plan to take off the outside of the building and use inside instead), AND a beautiful Armstrong USA thru-hole socket set packaged in a nice hard case.

Guess how much I paid for that haul....

 

[dipper]

great restoration reiferman.

Don't worry about the electric too much, it sounds like you know what you are doing.
The wires are old and brittle which is why you "let the sparks fly" already. Just be a little more careful and be sure to keep the tape and wirenuts handy.

Since never doing electrical work, having a pro get your new subpanel wired is a very good idea, then all you have to do is all your branch circuits. There are plenty of "how-to" books you can read that will help you out.

Are you going to do the wiring in romex wire with staples? That is the preferred
method used now a days. In a building like yours, emt conduit would give more of the rustic old-barn look that you are obviously going for. EMT can be hard at first for the bends and such but might not be too bad.

Keep up with the pictures. It's looking great.

 

[mk3rattlebox]

Curdy you're too freaking funny. Nice stuff!

Anyhow, I'm really writing to record this fact:

Electrical work it really hard and there must be a special place in heaven reserved for the people that do electrical for a living.


I say this because I'm figuring out my supplies list / project plan to have the electrical totally re-done in the barn... and it's just extremely mind bending for a first timer (yes, I'm bringing in a pro to inspect everything I do, and to do the hard stuff).

But, I figure, the worst part is usually figuring out WHAT to do, NOT the actual doing itself.

(note to self: later on when I'm cursing electrical work, re-read this post, have a beer, and laugh at yourself)

LOL I estimate / project manage for a medium sized electrical contractor in the city i live in...
I really try hard not to get roped into any sidework, just for that reason.
There are so many variables, and different ways / material that you can use, it can be overwhelming.

I usually start something like this...

Define all your major loads...nameplate ratings etc.
DRAW out everthing you have considered for your electrical installation.
This includes...
Switch locations
Receptacles
lighting
direct connects
voice / data outlets
Alarm points
Intercom / Speakers

Define your circuits before you even drill the first stud. Trust me it will make way easier to pull / circuit as much as you can in one shot, then going back and adding, and adding ....

Anywho, if you get stuck on something shoot me a PM maybe i can help you out.

 

[rieferman]

will post more tomorrow, but here's some pics showing the haul I mentioned. $40 for everything you see. NICE

the others show my victory over the stupid low headroom kit. I literally said out loud "take that *****". ha ha.. I was getting tough with garage track. Issues, issues

 

[Buckled]

Looking at the second to last pic, what's gong to keep the top roller from rolling right out of the back of the top track? It seems like the top track should be longer than the bottom track?

I've never used a 2 track system.

 

[rieferman]

Hi Buckled, thanks for stopping in I have another piece to attach yet, that will run all the way to the end. I was just so happy to make it through the hard part of getting the rollers to line up with tracks, I jumped the gun on putting up a pic. ha ha

Dipper and mk3rattlebox
Thanks for commenting and giving some advice.

Using romex and staples. 14-2 for lighting, 12-2 for outlets. (again, if I misuse a term, or if I have any small errors, please call me out on it.. also, all my assumptions will be tested against an electrician before I actually do anything)

I'm totally a planner through and through, so I agree with the advice to write it all down. I have scaled drawings of the floor plan, and I've color coded my outlet placement and lighting placement - color coded based on circuit that they will be on. Right now, I plan to print enough copies of that plan so that I can hand draw each circuit on its own copy. A little waste of paper, but I want to keep everything separate and clear in my head

 

[Buckled]

Hi Buckled, thanks for stopping in I have another piece to attach yet, that will run all the way to the end. I was just so happy to make it through the hard part of getting the rollers to line up with tracks, I jumped the gun on putting up a pic. ha ha

That makes more sense. Congrats on saving an old barn rather than bulldozing it and starting over. I love the look of old barns!

 

[rieferman]

garage door is in and working as expected. Boy was that a pain in the neck. Also took down old slider (plan to use the planks to make some kitchen tables) which was heavy, but went well. Sheathed the exterior of the garage door area. Looks good ( but needs siding someday)

tomorrow night I will be framing the exercise room

 

[rieferman]

damn I'm sore. Most of my Mondays start with that thought. Stupid weekend warrior syndrome! ha ha.. I laugh because I tend to put in 5 days a week on my "weekend projects".

Got one wall of exercise room framed, and got the bottom plate nailed in with the 22 caliber the rest of the way around. Should be able to finish the framing tonight I think, or Wednesday night at the least (Tuesdays and Thursdays are for fun, Mon/Wed/Fri are for working). I'm planning on putting in blocking strategically to make for easier shelf and counter top installations later. That's the nice thing about framing for yourself, you can do little things that make your life easier later.

Side note: Sometimes I've taken a shortcut and justified it to myself like "Well, no big deal, we'll fix that up later when we get to the XYZ step of the process". Later on, when I get to that step of the process I invariably curse out my "self from the past" for making more work for my "self in the present". Over the years, I've really tried to set myself up to be pleasantly surprised in the future.. Like keeping a clear wiring diagram, laminated, and stored with the new box, labeling the wires as I run them, giving myself blocking for shelf installs, labeling the outside of cardboard boxes where I'm storing something etc.

Anyhow, this all means that by this time next week I'll be elbow deep in books on how to run various electrical components. I have a decent idea, but I like to be fairly "expert" by the time I ask questions to the real experts. Goal is to have the exercise room buttoned up by end of June. I'll miss that deadline I think - just noticed that it's June 15th already! ha ha

 

[rieferman]

Got the next wall of the exercise room framed last night. Believe me, I'm not that slow, it's that in a building like this you can't build a wall on the floor, stand it up and be done lickity split. Instead, you have to custom measure and cut each stick one by one, level/square it, toe nail it in (thank god for nail guns).

Will frame the built ins tonight (where the fridge/tv/stereo will be), and then the rest of this week work on framing where the front windows will be. That should be interesting because I have to be intentionally crooked on that side in order to marry up with the existing barn siding.

Last, frame the walls of the work shop. That's just two straight 4 foot runs, so that won't be a big deal.

 

[Bull]

This is one of my favorite threads on here. I am obsessed with barns, and the idea of rehabilitating old, dilapidated ones. More pics as you progress, please!

Gives me hope that one day I can make my old barn more usable.

 

[rieferman]

Bull wrote:

This is one of my favorite threads on here.

Well that makes me feel GREAT

but... have you seen all the nice places on here? My place ***** in comparison! ha ha.. But I'm really trying my hardest, so thanks for boosting my motivation a little bit.

More pics as you progress, please!

You got it!

first pic = progress on framing the exercise room. Not sure if you can tell, but where original post/beams exist, I am recessing the framing so that the finish wall will leave those posts/beams revealed.

second pic shows the bump out that will be the "built ins" where fridge/TV/stereo/storage will be

third pic is where the original barn door will be reinstalled. I really wrestled with the idea of squaring up that portion of the frame... but in the end I decided that part of what makes this all cool is the quirks and angles. Makes everything a pain in the *** to build, but I only have to do it all once.

last photo is exterior view of the garage door install from hell. if you squint your eyes you can picture the building with nice new siding on it

edit: btw, that track on the front of the barn is in good enough condition that I can save it. I thought I would be able to, but now that the slider is down and I can really inspect it, I know for sure that I can re-use it. Plan is that between the workshop and garage parking there will be two 4' wide sliders using this track and hardware (but new wood for the door). Old barn slider will be refinished and used to make kitchen tables I think

 

[Blk63Vette]

Hello

I enjoyed reading your thread the barn looks GREAT...Keep up the good work..

 

[Bull]

I don't even pay attention to the threads about high-dollar, spotless showrooms. They don't interest me at all. An old barn with character and history and a patina being saved and renovated? That is cool that most people can't buy...only a small minority of Americans are fortunate enough to have an old barn.

Love the additional pics, keep them coming!

I might have some questions for you, but need to re-read the thread to make sure I don't ask something you've already covered.

Well that makes me feel GREAT

but... have you seen all the nice places on here? My place ***** in comparison! ha ha.. But I'm really trying my hardest, so thanks for boosting my motivation a little bit.

 

[rieferman]

Well thanks again guys, getting nice comments like that really helps keep my motivation up. It can get overwhelming, but I just keep telling myself "every hour I spend is one hour closer to being finished". It's enjoyable, but tiring work and much of it you're the only one that can see the improvements.

For barn renovation, if you're obsessed like me, you can read this entire book in about a weekend and you'll be MUCH better off for having read it. It's amazing. There are some things he doesn't go into (e.g. if your building is leaning and you're using come alongs to straighten it, a 1/2 inch thick eye bolt can only withstand a 2 ton come along... if you have 4 ton come along, you need 3/4 inch eye bolt) but mostly he gives you a great starting point. I love answering questions on this stuff, so fire away. Anyhow the book is:

Renovating Barns Sheds and Outbuildings by Nick Engler


Edit... one of the reasons I love that book so much is that the first line of the book is: "Everytime I start to renovate a barn or an outbuilding, someone asks me 'Why don't you tear it down and just start over?'" And then he goes into how to make your decision. It really validated my thought process. When I was finished with the book I remember thinking "I can really do this".

 

[Nutty 5.0]

I went to PV and grew up in Collegeville. Very cool thread!

 

[marty_p]

RE: Barn Saving

Hard Work? Obviously
Charm? Immeasurable
The Final Reward? PRICELESS!

Keep up the great work, buddy. All of us at the GJ are pulling for you!

 

[rieferman]

Nutty... PV? Collegeville? Ha ha, wow, you know where I'm at then. I'm about a mile from the highschool.

Marty, many thanks!!

---

Alright fellas, time to start really working out the kinks in the workshop layout.

Attached are some sketches. I labeled them "looking east" and "looking west". East is from workshop looking into the garage bay. Looking west is just turning around from that position to look at opposite wall.

Looking east:
- I've been test driving this setup for a couple weeks now and seem to like it.
- Chop saw is convenient to use, the long end of whatever I'm cutting rests comfortably on the table saw's top, and the countertop.
- Since there will be two sliding doors creating 8 feet of opening when both are open, there will be plenty of light/air in the shop when it's nice out. (plus three 66 inch windows too). Also, the table saw being positioned in front of one of the openings allows you to push your cut through into the open bay. Allows me to avoid the "table saw as the centerpiece to your workshop" position that you commonly see.
- Stole from another thread and plan to replace under counter shelves with under counter rolling carts. With locking casters, you gain a nice mobile set of work stations, as well as your storage.
- At left of that picture, I'm planning some sort of parts/fasteners/tools storage zone. Just a shallow 12 inch counter that I'll use to count out nuts/bolts or inspect something or gather whatever tools I want to bring out.
- Of course, shelf above all of it right into a continuous blocking that I'm positioning just for that purpose. (counter also secured to studs.. not into continuous blocking, not necessary)

Looking west:
- Designed the run on the stairs such that I can have full 4 x 8 sheets stored flat on their backs underneath (I find this is the only way to keep material from warping in the long run in a barn environment)
- On top of that will be more sheet good storage.. For cutoffs etc.
- That brings me to counter top height... I can either share the space between bins for wood storage and space for power tools to be while not in use... or I can solely dedicate this to wood storage. Leaning towards the latter maybe.
- Because, look at all those cubbies I'll have on the other side of the stairs... just store all the power tools there right? What do you think?



(edit on 12/02/13 - boy this is hilarious to read. I really thought that I had it figured out. My shop layout is almost nothing like these pictures now! AND... even more impressive is that I've since learned that no matter what I learn, I STILL had a TON more to learn)

 

[rieferman]

Still would love any input on the design options from above post. Don't by shy you won't hurt my feelings

Last night's effort.. Framing the final wall in the exercise room. Had to sawzall out all the old timbers because they weren't doing anything anymore. Now I'll have something really nice and solid to screw the barn board into. Then caulk the spaces to try to keep weather out. I'll use rigid foam on this wall for insulation to stand up to any water that might sneak through until I get new siding on the building.

Anyhow, this is where two windows will be. They're framed exactly level with the other window that was already installed in this room (in fact, the remaining 3 windows that I'll be framing on this floor will also be level with these windows).

This was a pain in the neck to get perfect, but I'm very happy with how it turned out

 

[Bull]

When you use the rigid foam stuff, cutting it can be a real PITA. I found that using a battery powered circular saw (mine is 14.4 v) with the blade installed backwards makes neat, quick cuts. Try it out!

As for your designs, I'd like to comment but I am just about the worst possible person to visualize storage/organizational ideas.

 

[curdy]

rieferman, looking good. Now that you're starting to get more into storage and making the space most efficient, I'd like to offer some advice...at least from my experience. The storage and layout will most likely be an ongoing changing thing. If you're not familiar with SketchUp, I'd highly recommend downloading it and getting the space drawn up to scale on it. Then you'll be able to move things around in there and see the most efficient way to lay things out. Plus, whenever you make a change, you won't have to re-draw everything. Good program to use too for woodworking projects as well.

I'd be willing to help you draw some things up in there if you want.

Here's a sample of my shop. The layout is different now, but you'll get the idea. BTW, it a whole lot easier to move 1000lb machines around on the computer to figure out where they should go, and then move them once in real life.

[/IMG]

 

[rieferman]

hey guys, thanks for the suggestions! I'll definitely try them both out

Got those windows in tonight. Take that Barn!!! ha ha

(btw, I can't take a good picture apparently)

 

[rieferman]

productive *** weekend.. holy cow. will write more later, just some pics for now. Let me know how it looks!

 

[Bull]

I checked in here about an hour ago for an update...glad to see one is here now!

Pics look great. I'm becoming progressively more jealous of how much you are getting done with the old barn.

I own that Engler book, too. I absolutely love it, but I have not gained as much from reading it as you obviously have! I can't recall if you stated this earlier in the thread, but do you have building experience?

 

[Bevis]

Going to help a guy work on his old Sears and Roebuck barn, tomorrow.

 

[rieferman]

hey guys! whew! boy am I wiped out this morning.. going to take it easy this week and mostly spend time studying electrical "how to" books of various shapes and sizes. meeting with my electrician/buddy near end of week. Barely anything left to do before I do the wiring (but lots to do in order to complete the wiring).

bull wrote:

I own that Engler book, too. I absolutely love it

That book is unbelievable. I was lucky that my library carried it and they let me borrow it for 3 months straight (apparently there isn't high demand for barn building books ). I literally read the book cover to cover several times until I had it pretty much memorized. Then I took it slow. The stuff I'm doing now is fun to watch, but all the serious work happened months ago.

I can't recall if you stated this earlier in the thread, but do you have building experience?

Nope, I work in an office setting but have always enjoyed working with my hands. Mainly just a willingness to try and a hunger to read/talk to experts/watch/learn/take it slow/re-do it when it's wrong the first time/be ok with less than 110% perfect sometimes. Someone on the board wrote at one point (I'm paraphrasing): "Anything another man can do, I can do". That's my attitude with the barn.

 

[rieferman]

well, last night was a boring night for barn work. It is time to clear off all my piles of stuff off of the basketball court so the kids (and me) can use it during the nice weather (hopefully the rain will return to normal levels?!?!).

So, many many many trips up and down the stairs to store barn wood that I saved. I'll take a picture when I'm finished. I have planks, siding, beams etc. I have old hinges, latches, misc. hardware. Old stair treads that are just awesomely beat to hell. Ha ha, the stack of wood is just like my barn.... I'll be the only one that can "see" the beauty of the wood until it's actually finished being transformed. That's ok, I can see it.

Will finish up moving all that wood tonight, and carefully sweeping the court for nails etc.

Tomorrow night, electrical reading blitz begins. Ugh. Sort of dreading, sort of looking forward to it. Feels like I'm about to study for a big test in high school or something.

 

[rieferman]

last window installed last night, what a pain in the *** that was. working on old buildings is really difficult sometimes. Someday I'll build something new from scratch, and I think I'll really enjoy that.

this weekend, get the space re-organized (I tend to do that between each major stage... helps my mind reset) and read electrical books

 

[wrigh003]

Coming right along. Looks good!

 

[rieferman]

Thanks wrigh!

Space is organized! YES. Feels good to re-set between project phases. My goal for organizing is mainly to use stuff I have to do it. I want an eclectic, inexpensive, highly efficient space. So far so good. Lumber storage is coming right along, got a nice shelf built... more lumber storage... some simple screws into a 2x4 for hanging shovels etc. I'll go take pics and post them.

edit: oh, and I figured out a cool way to solve the "too tall garage door lip" issue as well as re-use super old foundation stones.

I think every dollar I don't give to HD or Lowes is a minor victory for me. My space won't win beauty contests, but I'll bet it's as functional as any space around! Go Barn.

 

[heffneil]

Very nice job. It is really impressive how far you have brought this building along and preserved it. I also love that you saved everything from it. Too often our generation (younger guys) are quick to tear down or throw away and rebuild. It is nice to keep a piece of history alive. Congrats!

One silly suggestion: it looks like you are storing your weed wacker upside down. I could be seeing it wrong in the picture but I think the way you have it hanging the fuel might run out the tank even with the cap on. You might want to hang it engine high.

 

[rieferman]

thanks Heffneil! I really like trying to re-purpose stuff, and to in general have a cool story behind various things. In a way, this is "green" remodeling at its finest (so often I watch those shows on HGTV where they make a new energy efficient place, but create 4 dumpsters of waste in the process.. kind of defeats the purpose right?)

weed wacker.. hmmm, you might be right about that. It's not leaking since I hung it like that but I just sent an email to my neighbor (he sells lawn equipment [etc.] wholesale for a living) to see if there's a right way on that. Good call!

(added note on 08/24/09 - checked with my neighbor who sells equipment for a living [including mowers, blowers, string trimmers etc.) and my type of weed wacker is ok to be stored like this.. something about 2 stroke engine... I'm not an engine guy sorry!)


edit: btw, I can't take consistently clear pictures I guess.. sheesh, some of those are blurry. wtf?

edit2: speaking of re-use/re-purpose.. the wooden shelves in the one picture are the most crooked, worn out, poorly built, dirty/greasy set of shelves you'll ever find. But I couldn't bear to burn them - they've been there for a LONG time already, who am I to end their run? So I eye balled it as straight as possible, threw in a bunch of nails to strengthen it up, and screwed it to a stud. Instant gas can / lawn equipment whatever shelving that I'll never care if it gets messy as hell.

And all the lumber storage... all completely built from stuff I had laying around, cut offs etc. There's even slats from an old bench that we had mixed in there. Keeping the plywood off the ground? Some pallets from local beer distributor.

Now... am I resourceful or just a cheap skate? ha ha, the truth lies someplace in the middle

 

[jwhcars]

Keep up good work and around these parts when we reuse stuff etc...we are frugal or called Pa Dutch

 

[cyclopsblown34]

You';re fiscally minded and very talented. I've been checking this thread daily for updates. Way cool restoration.