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Wet floor first before etching with muriatic acid?
- Thread starter catch22
- Start date
nate379
Banned
I used a garden sprayer and it worked well. I think the reason they don't say to use that in the instructions is because the off chance that the sprayer would be over pressurize and blow apart or leak and get acid on someone
floorman007
Member
- Joined
- Sep 23, 2009
- Messages
- 12
Definetly use a watering can. I wouldnt want to be pressurizing acid -- this just seems like a real bad idea. Also I assume you are dilluting this stuff first?
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Those hand pump pressurized garden sprayers work well, they allow you to put down a very even coat. If you're going to be spraying acid, be sure that the pump is entirely plastic with no internal metal parts. As always be very, very careful with acid, read all the instructions and warnings, and follow them.
benjamming
Well-known member
wear goggles & a Tyvek suit with rubber gloves
jmh21586
Well-known member
I mixed it 50/50 in a five gallon pail and then just dumped it out on the floor in a throwing motion so it spread out.
tcianci
Well-known member
Poster #8 has the right idea. Dilute the acid according the the instructions on the container and just spread it gently across the floor without splashing. Always use plastic containers and non metallic tools. I would advise against sprayers because as in any spray operation the finest spray floats into the air and that's the easiest way to put a lot of acid in places you never wanted it to go (lungs come to mind). Also just using a plastic bucket and a broom minimizes the amount of equipment you need to clean up.
nate379
Banned
Should be wearing eye and lung protection to begin with. I'm a pretty tough guy when it comes to fumes and didn't think it would be too bad, but there was just no way! Plus I wasn't risking my eyes to a $7 jug of acid!
I tried thinning it down at first and it didn't work well. Took a 4 (water):1 (acid) dose, 1:1 dose 3 100% doses to get the floor rough enough.
I used my gas mask from work..
http://www.chiefsupply.com/Law_Enforcement/Crowd_Control/Gas_Masks/100512
I think a watering can would make more of a mess, but hey do whatever you want.
I tried thinning it down at first and it didn't work well. Took a 4 (water):1 (acid) dose, 1:1 dose 3 100% doses to get the floor rough enough.
I used my gas mask from work..
http://www.chiefsupply.com/Law_Enforcement/Crowd_Control/Gas_Masks/100512
I think a watering can would make more of a mess, but hey do whatever you want.
AlphaGarage
Well-known member
Muriatic acid in big box retail stores is already diluted, usually somewhere around 30% of full strength. The ideal dilution to etch a floor depends on several factors, so it's a good idea to run a quick test.
Clearly the first task is to be sure all safety precautions are followed. Use safety gear, no kids around, proper mixing containers, good ventilation, read instructions, follow them, etc. etc. Always have a large supply of clean water easily available to quickly dilute and wash off spills.
I first try a 2:1 ratio of water to acid, that is 2 parts water to one part acid. Note that you should always slowly add the acid to the water. Then apply a bit of the solution to an inconspicuous spot of concrete. What you want to see and hear is a small amount of interaction - a little fizzing, an bit of bubbling.
That would indicate that the acid is reacting with the calcium and other components of the concrete, however it does not react with other elements of the concrete. So where the calcium is dissolved by the acid forms small pockets, that's leaves a rough texture which provides more anchor points for the subsequent coating to mechanically grab onto. The acid also reduces the alkalinity of the concrete, which allows for a better chemical bound with some coatings.
If the text batch of diluted acid has visible "smoke" fumes, then the concentration is way too high. Whip up another small batch with a lower ratio of acid.
If there's no visible or audible reaction, that that ratio isn't strong enough for that floor, so try another test with a higher ratio of acid.
Eventually you'll find the right ratio.
When you apply it to a larger area there may be some spots where it still loos like nothing is reacting, use a broom with stiff bristles and scrub that area (be sure to confirm firts that the bristles aren't affected by the acid).
The acid will do most of it's work in the first 10 minutes or so. It will be largely neutralized by its reactions with the concrete, but it's still a good idea to use an additional neutralizing agent, like baking soda.
Do not allow the etching solution to dry on the concrete, that leaves behind that white residue (calcium carbonate) that people mention and that can effect the adhesion of the coatings.
It's probably pretty clear by this point that muriatic acid is strong stuff. It's very corrosive to metal, can damage landscaping, and can result in long term injuries and health problems if used incorrectly.
There are variations on muriatic acid, and even some other chemicals, that offer the same results, but have far fewer hazards and shortfalls. We supply an alternate etching chemical to facilities that can't tolerate the dust and mess that comes from grinding or shot blasting, and also can't tolerate the fumes or corrosive effects of muriatic acid.
Environments that fall on that list include zoos and other animal housing (zoos, research labs); hospitals, assisted living homes; electronic equipment assembly facilities, equipment rooms (power distribution, hvac etc.), or areas where the residents are sensitive/allergic to chemical fumes. A limiting factor to using those substitutes is they're more expensive.
Clearly the first task is to be sure all safety precautions are followed. Use safety gear, no kids around, proper mixing containers, good ventilation, read instructions, follow them, etc. etc. Always have a large supply of clean water easily available to quickly dilute and wash off spills.
I first try a 2:1 ratio of water to acid, that is 2 parts water to one part acid. Note that you should always slowly add the acid to the water. Then apply a bit of the solution to an inconspicuous spot of concrete. What you want to see and hear is a small amount of interaction - a little fizzing, an bit of bubbling.
That would indicate that the acid is reacting with the calcium and other components of the concrete, however it does not react with other elements of the concrete. So where the calcium is dissolved by the acid forms small pockets, that's leaves a rough texture which provides more anchor points for the subsequent coating to mechanically grab onto. The acid also reduces the alkalinity of the concrete, which allows for a better chemical bound with some coatings.
If the text batch of diluted acid has visible "smoke" fumes, then the concentration is way too high. Whip up another small batch with a lower ratio of acid.
If there's no visible or audible reaction, that that ratio isn't strong enough for that floor, so try another test with a higher ratio of acid.
Eventually you'll find the right ratio.
When you apply it to a larger area there may be some spots where it still loos like nothing is reacting, use a broom with stiff bristles and scrub that area (be sure to confirm firts that the bristles aren't affected by the acid).
The acid will do most of it's work in the first 10 minutes or so. It will be largely neutralized by its reactions with the concrete, but it's still a good idea to use an additional neutralizing agent, like baking soda.
Do not allow the etching solution to dry on the concrete, that leaves behind that white residue (calcium carbonate) that people mention and that can effect the adhesion of the coatings.
It's probably pretty clear by this point that muriatic acid is strong stuff. It's very corrosive to metal, can damage landscaping, and can result in long term injuries and health problems if used incorrectly.
There are variations on muriatic acid, and even some other chemicals, that offer the same results, but have far fewer hazards and shortfalls. We supply an alternate etching chemical to facilities that can't tolerate the dust and mess that comes from grinding or shot blasting, and also can't tolerate the fumes or corrosive effects of muriatic acid.
Environments that fall on that list include zoos and other animal housing (zoos, research labs); hospitals, assisted living homes; electronic equipment assembly facilities, equipment rooms (power distribution, hvac etc.), or areas where the residents are sensitive/allergic to chemical fumes. A limiting factor to using those substitutes is they're more expensive.
jmh21586
Well-known member
Muriatic acid in big box retail stores is already diluted, usually somewhere around 30% of full strength. .
Anywhere that sells masonry supplies, especially brick, will have full strength acid. I paid $52 for five gallons at our local contractor supply here in MN, Brock White.
nate379
Banned
Highest mix you can get is 38%, though standard industry mix is 30%-34%