What am I missing?

[Jakemedic]

Greetings from COLD Iowa. I am in the process of quoting out a pole barn for use as a woodworking shop as follows:

• 28x36x10'
• 2 ft overhangs all the way around
• 1-10x8 insulated garage door
• 2-36" walk doors
• 4-36x36 windows
• wainscot on all sides
• house wrap under steel
• laminated posts

I got two quotes for the building. One from a local builder with a reasonably good reputation for producing a good product and one from a builder about 60 miles away.

Both are using 29 ga steel, 8' on center posts (except for the last opening which would be 4'), 4 inch concrete with rebar and expansion joints cut.

Local builder is 18,120
60 mile away builder is 23,600.

The only noticeable difference between the two is the local builder is using 5' on center for the trusses and the other builder is using 4'.

What am I missing here?

The building won't be built until spring (mostly because my dirt work guy is that busy) and for conversation purposes will be insulating and finishing the interior on my own.

Thank you in advance for any advice you may provide!

 

[jd_1138]

Local guy is probably cheaper because less travel is involved. Sounds like he'd be the guy I'd pick. I spend my money locally when I can. Plus if there's a problem, chances are it will be easier to get the local guy out there.

 

[Jakemedic]

Appreciate the reply! My son in law thought that too. I did get another quote from a large pole barn company in the area and they were even higher with trusses 8’ on center. Thanks again!

 

[The Cobbler]

local guy that has a decent reputation, 5.5K cheaper would be my choice. you could always ask what 4' OC would cost extra. I bet not 5.5K

 

[RPH]

Check these guys as a price reference. They also offer installation.
http://www.diypolebarns.com/prices.php

 

[mitusa]

I would go the extra money to get 26 gauge.....29 is really light.

 

[bob15]

Local also works better when and if some kind repair is needed.

I would ask to go 4ft oc and get the heavier gauge steel.

 

[b-boy]

local guy that has a decent reputation, 5.5K cheaper would be my choice. you could always ask what 4' OC would cost extra. I bet not 5.5K

I'm guessing it would be 1-2 extra trusses. I can't image that would be that much extra. I'd rather have 4' oc anyway.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Are wood the pole set directly in the soil ? I would pay extra for perma-columns or poured footing. At a minimum, put a 6" concrete "cookie" at the bottom of the hole and back fill with gravel.

I sounds like you are going to do the pad separately. Spend the extra money and get at least 2" on foam board installed before the pour. The concrete will stay warmer.

Last, skip the house wrap and pay for 2" of closed cell spray foam. It does a MUCH better job of sealing against the wind and rain. You can add more insulation (fiberglass) later.

I'm guessing it would be 1-2 extra trusses. I can't image that would be that much extra. I'd rather have 4' oc anyway.

Concur !

 

[Marctrees]

I'm gonna say that both those bids are very fair understanding they include the concrete work , ALL materials, turnkey done, other than dirtwork.

Purpose of "Housewrap" under steel ? ? ?

I would upgrade to 26ga at least on roof - I can't see anything more than a little guy on a typical PB framed roof walking on 29... and you DO get BIG hail there i assume.

I paid $18 / sq ft turnkey for specs apples to apples very similar to yours,, includes final grading and rebar concrete.... 1300 sq ft. building... all 26 ga... CCA "Foundation" treated posts.... bulk dirtwork extra

Marc

 

[Spareparts]

Might think about 42" walk in doors, sure a lot easier taking things in and out.

 

[Jakemedic]

Check these guys as a price reference. They also offer installation.
http://www.diypolebarns.com/prices.php

Thanks for the website. About the same shop size with 26 ga steel was right around 18,000. That obviously don't include concrete. They didn't have anyone in my area to install, which doesn't surprise me. I do agree the 26 ga is a good choice, and I will be requesting that in the quote for walls and roof.

The foam insulation under concrete is something that I want to put in. Iowa winters can be very cold and a vapor barrier as well. The extra truss or two shouldn't be too bad. 4' on center makes sense. The house wrap is to limit condensation. Most builders around here do that. Have not heard of spray foam and then insulation too. I don't envision using the man doors for anything beyond walking in and out. Tools and wood will come through the garage door. I may consider one for the side door, just in case.

I have one opportunity to build this, I want to do it correctly the first time...... Once I get the building itself figured out, I can focus on insulation, finishes inside, electric and natural gas for heating. I am waiting for quote for dirt work and running electric/natural gas.

Jake

 

[Marctrees]

Jake - Look into this - There is NO point to your Housewrap between the wood framing and the Steel.

None.

First off, it is NOT a VB.

Second, IF you want a VB in Iowa, and you should if you will be heating, it needs to be on the inside of the building side of any insulation.

When a stick built home is done in a cold climate like yours, Housewrap is put on outside of studs to reduce air infiltration... then VB, tpically 4 mil Poly is put INSIDE the studs right under sheetrock.

R panel steel obviously only allows air infiltration at seams... mostly at corners of building and wall/ to roof connection areas.

Many in northern climates will foam only those areas if on a tight budget, the perimeters lets call it.

If you plan on heating, in Iowa, IDEALLY you would have a ceiling w FG, blown material, or similar on top of the ceiling, a VENTED soffit to ridge "attic" and foamed walls.

Note I said, in Iowa, A vented attic w NO insul on underside of roof.

The foam in the walls whether OC or CC will act as the wall VB.

If you do Steel ceiling , w TIGHT seams will act as VB.

I, personally, would make sure perimiters are caulked, and, ideally, as an ultimate upgrade, the self stick gooey tape that is common at R panel lap joints.

If you do ceiling w high permeability material like Plywood , OSB, Sheetrock... Then you would put a VB under that cladding ... like typically 4 mil poly.

In your area, might be interesting to get quotes from Lester's and Morton... but I would anticipate higher pricing than you currently have.

Marc

 

[rburke65]

I know it’s always the money, but I’d go trusses 2’ on center. Ceiling @nd insulation.....not The plac3 to skimp on the construction

 

[Jakemedic]

Re: What am I missing

Jake - Look into this - There is NO point to your Housewrap between the wood framing and the Steel.

None.

First off, it is NOT a VB.

Second, IF you want a VB in Iowa, and you should if you will be heating, it needs to be on the inside of the building side of any insulation.

When a stick built home is done in a cold climate like yours, Housewrap is put on outside of studs to reduce air infiltration... then VB, tpically 4 mil Poly is put INSIDE the studs right under sheetrock.

R panel steel obviously only allows air infiltration at seams... mostly at corners of building and wall/ to roof connection areas.

Many in northern climates will foam only those areas if on a tight budget, the perimeters lets call it.

If you plan on heating, in Iowa, IDEALLY you would have a ceiling w FG, blown material, or similar on top of the ceiling, a VENTED soffit to ridge "attic" and foamed walls.

Note I said, in Iowa, A vented attic w NO insul on underside of roof.

The foam in the walls whether OC or CC will act as the wall VB.

If you do Steel ceiling , w TIGHT seams will act as VB.

I, personally, would make sure perimiters are caulked, and, ideally, as an ultimate upgrade, the self stick gooey tape that is common at R panel lap joints.

If you do ceiling w high permeability material like Plywood , OSB, Sheetrock... Then you would put a VB under that cladding ... like typically 4 mil poly.

In your area, might be interesting to get quotes from Lester's and Morton... but I would anticipate higher pricing than you currently have.

Marc

Hey Marc, I appreciate your comments. You are totally correct, House wrap is NOT a vapor barrier and a vapor barrier goes on the inside of the walls after insulation. My bad there. I do believe though there is a benefit to housewrap on the outside of the building. There are many schools of thought on this. One camp says why wast the money? The other says house wrap is there to keep bulk moisture out. It is wildly popular here in my corner of the world. I greatly appreciate your time to respond! As I said before, I have one opportunity to do this right, and I want to get it right.

I did get a quote from a larger pole builder in my area. You are correct, MUCH higher priced, and honestly don’t see the benefits other than the emblem on the outside of the building.