What are lifetime warantys really worth?

[GoBlue]

I was at Sears tonight swapping out a 1/2 ratchet of mine that one of our techs broke with a pipe (frustrated) and there was a carpenter swapping out a Craftsman tape measure that carried their lifetime warranty. They nice young guy behind the counter informed him that Craftsman no longer made tape measures and he would swap it out for a Stanley but the warranty would no longer apply. Then i got to thinking about another post that said MAC is no longer warrantying Blackhawk tools. Kind of makes you wonder about what Sears will be giving us 10 years from now when our American Craftsman breaks. Its like my hf chrome wobble extensions. They pretty much break every time i put any pressure to them...i take them back and i get more garbage. I guess you stamp guaranteed on a box and **** in it and all you have is a guaranteed box of ****...guess im just frustrated for the poor guy with the tape measure...i asked the clerk how long i had till they pulled that **** on me.

Conversely had one of my techs with an awesome set of MAC wrenches from the 70s...6 point. These are truly top quality wrenches. The box end finally gave out one of his and MAC did warrant the wrench for him...guess what...the new one is way different than the one he handed in...read lower quality and 12 point...i guess they no longer make it in 6...total ****.

What will the Snap On owners (myself included) do when they go chinese...and they will. Same goes for the Craftsman RP's ive grown up with and Mac and Matco hard tools that are already on their way...

Man this is frustrating...

 

[Weps]

once the accountants and marketers got involved, lifetime warranties pretty much became meaningless. in todays economy, it has nothing to do with an amazing, indestructible, product. after the likelihood of failure and the percentage of people likely to return the product is calculated and weighed against manufacturing costs, it just means the company feels they will generate more sales with the warranty than it will cost to honor warranty claims.

eta. i think you sum up the situation pretty well. in most cases, it really is "take them back and get more garbage."

at this point, i'll take my chances with an old tool from a dead company before i buy something new because of a lifetime warranty.

 

[1oldtimer]

I've been buying old american tools for years from ebay, swapmeets and pawn shops. I love old tools waaaay better then new ones, but I still have to buy new tools I can't find from the trucks every once and awhile.

 

[therealwormey]

probably a lifetime of heartache​

 

[Fedwrench]

a lifetime warranty gives you a lifetime supply of failed tools

 

[GoBlue]

No ****

 

[itsvegas]

http://www.sears.com/shc/s/p_10153_12605_SPM2729532802P?prdNo=1&blockNo=1&blockType=G1

craftsman tape measure. just found that one real quick, im sure they wouldn't stop making such a common item. it doesn't make any sense.

 

[GoBlue]

can only report what i witnessed today in the store...im a big Craftsan fan so i have no reason to lie...

 

[itsvegas]

i wasn't saying that, just the person who was working was wrong.

 

[pipsters]

$30 for a tape measure? Who would buy that? I bought some NOS US ones for $7.50 a piece.

 

[GoBlue]

i wasn't saying that, just the person who was working was wrong.

Wouldn't surprise me if they were wrong...i once had a counter idiot tell me they couldn't warrant a ratchet because the new ones were an updated style...needless to say a manager fixed the problem and gave me a new one no questions asked...

 

[Carl B]

I bought a Firestone Forever Battery for my car in 1975. Firestone replaced it about every three years until around 1995. In 1995 I started keeping all my cars, other than daily drivers, on Battery Tenders. Firestone has replaced my Forever Battery about every six years since then. Got the last free replacement about two or three years ago.

Firestone was merged with Bridgestone several years ago - but that hasn't had any effect on my Forever Warranty to date.

So in my case a lifetime warranty has been well worth the initial cost of the more expensive battery.

FWIW,
Carl B.

 

[GoBlue]

do you still have the same car you had in 1975 or do you put the battery in newer cars?

 

[Carl B]

I bought a Datsun 240Z in 72 and I still have it. Never wanted to let it go...

Carl B.

 

[dankicksass]

Craftsman tape measures were discontinued last year and eliminated from floor stock. If offered Stanley, I'd suggest taking a good Bostitch or FatMax model with a metal body and blade armor, as pictured below. They're made in the USA and carry a lifetime/100-year warranty, depending on branding. It doesn't cover rust, paint loss or tape breakage and wear, but most home improvement stores should take care of it no questions asked.

A broken tool doesn't do anything but take up space. I don't always take into account warranty when buying tools though. USA Vise Grips would be replaced with Chinese junk if they fail, but I still will buy nearly any NOS I come across. I've never made a warranty claim on a screwdriver, but I don't know where I'd send my German ones if I had to. Same goes for my Grip-On locking pliers. I suppose I could try Snap-On for those, but it doesn't much matter. I don't expect my tools to fail unless they're ratchets or computers.

 

[Hermit]

i bought an 3/8 air ratchet for work (auto body). it broke down a month later. went in and got it replaced still under 1 yr warranty. same thing again & again. 3 times it broke down within 6 months. the counter guy said this would be the last time. so i mad a stink spoke to the manager and i asked for my $$ back. they gave it to me and i turned around and bought a Mac 3/8 air ratchet. never had problems again.

 

[GoBlue]

see what i mean...the craftsman warranty was garbage on that item! What will i do when they discontinue 6 point wrenches? Take a 12 point that i already have? Scary...

 

[GoBlue]

If you read my original post...MAC is no better.

 

[WhiteTrash]

Craftsman used to carry lifetime replacement tape measures that covered everything, then it got to everything but the tape. Then they stopped making them all together. They have started to bring them back but without a warranty.

That being said, Craftsman is one of the few tool companies that offers a lifetime warranty that isn't restricted to the original purchaser.

 

[GoBlue]

My point was not knock Craftsman as i have a ton of their tools and have always been happy. My point was to say that maybe our warrantys are not worth the paper they are written on regardless of brand...i mean who wants to turn in a classic MAC wrench only to have it replaced by imported ****? Or who wants to turn in an American made Craftsman Pro only to have it replaced by a chicom replacement **** box...not I.

 

[reddog289]

Lately I lose the tool which voids the lifetime warrenty. I recently won a gift basket which was full of tools from Harbor Freight, Most will go to the son in law and some might end up with a friend who needs tools. I have never had a problem returning tools at Sears or stuff to Harbor Freight.
Needless to say most of the tools I have broke, Broke because I used them in the wrong manner.Which makes me think that I might need to return a certain Mac 13/16 impact socket sooner than later.

 

[WhiteTrash]

If it is broken, then I do. A "chicom replacement **** box" will turn a bolt better than a broken American tool.

 

[Borrego]

I have never really had an issue with any Sears warranty replacement, until recently. I have two pair of Professional dykes. Went to replace them and they have been discontinued. They offered to replace them with regular Craftsman dykes. No dice. They even got on the phone and called their mail order catalogue. IF they would have been in stock, they would have been replaced. Discontinued there as well.
However, at that point, I decided to just take them back home. Didn't get them replaced, but I acknowledge Sears went the extra mile, service wise, to try and accommodate an exchange to my satisfaction.
The earlier post about Craftsman accepting warranty exchanges, regardless if original owner or not, is well spoken.
Now if only I could locate 2 pairs of Craftsman Porfessional dykes at Sears.....

 

[domain]

I have thought of this also. One time in particular though, when I was purchasing the Danaher Kobalt 3/8'' 12 pt mechanics kit. It came with the full polish ratchet which seemed like a slight upgrade to their standard 3/8'' and I wondered what they would replace it (Should it ever break) with since they did not seem to carry it as open stock. Well less than a year later I got my answer... Did not think I had to worry about the sockets also.

 

[franzdom]

I have a really nice set of polished Kobalt wrenches, they stopped making those almost 10 years ago. I had been building the set upwards but stopped whtn they no longer made full polished. I also have been through the Craftsman thing many times. For instance their screwdrivers have been on a regular decline over the years. They used to be square shaft then round, now I don't even bother taking them in because I don't relish the thought of what new ones probably look like. The older Craftsman stuff from the 60s-70s even is so much better than most stuff today.

 

[diesel research]

It's funny. I was talking to dankicksass about this.

Our conversation kind of started due to the same product and it's discontinuation.

After yet another cman debate (not a fan) I decided to go to 3 stores just to see what is going on in their camp.

A kind of nerdy/lanky guy with huge piercings everywhere approached me. He was a sales associate. He was very courteous and pretty knowledgeable about tools. He discussed the warranty after I pointed out someday I will buy that set of USA cman pro stubbies that have been sitting in the back. He read all the others, and was slightly surprised they were chinese. Then commented he wasn't too surprised.

He started off about the memo for no more warranties on the tape measures. He spoke of typical abuse and the flea market/estate sales warranty scheme. He then mentions that on many days, this small store would get 50 of those tape measures returned in a single day. Lots of ratchets too.

He goes on to comment that since the habit of returning flea market tools isn't going to be easily defeated, it only makes sense to offshore/discontinue more products, since no matter how high quality they are, people will try to return them just because they don't look new anymore or for profit.

______________________

I actually am not a fan of lifetime warranties since they can result in this sort of trend. If a tool doesn't break within a very short period of time, 9 times out of 10 when it fails much later it is due to abuse or excess wear. If it is wear, that means I got use out of the tool. I don't need ratchet guts to last 50 years, I can afford new ones and will gladly purchase them if it would ensure the tool would be built to a higher quality, as opposed to making a cheaper quality one to ensure profit margins will fund replacements. Prefer them not to break in the first place, and would trade warranty for quality.

 

[franzdom]

This is a 2 way street, isn't it. It's not just Sears & Craftsman to blame, it is also most (if not most than enough to make a business case) Americans. We (collectively, not me or you likely) have abused the system too many times, and also generally don't care where our stuff is made as long as it has a warranty. Ugh.

 

[warmpancakes]

sears stopped the warranty on tape measures because the employees just swapped the whole unit, they were supposed to replace the tape, Kinda a bummer I have a tape measure from the 60 that was my grandfathers he carried it everyday for 30 years I now carry it. I was lucky to find 3 replacement blades for it at the local sears so it should last another 50

 

[DiscoBerry]

My father who is a carpenter used to buy craftman tapes because he could take them back when they broke which was quite often. Then oneday when he went to exchange one they were going to give him one without the waranty, they said they were not going to waranty them anymore and he tryed to argue with them to no avail. Later that night he went back there with every craftsman tool he ever bought and demanded to exchange them and they did but were very pissed lol.

 

[scott37300]

I went through this about 8 years ago or so when craftsman stopped carrying a lifetime warranty on their tape measurers. I was pissed. I bought the tape measurer with a lifetime warranty and they took it away. They have done this with clamps, levels and other tools and now they are giving you chinese crab when you paid for US made tools with a lifetime warranty.

I haven't bought anything from craftsman in many years and don't plan to. I used to spend thousands there every year when I first started buying tools 10 years ago. They were the best value for the buck. But they have been taking a long slide down. And now with the ease of ordering quality tools online I don't even have to run to the store. If I need to warranty something I have to send it in but I'm alright with that since I don't tend to break to many tools.

 

[timesrgood?]

Looks like not only have the tools changed but the people. I don't remember my Dad who was born in 1912 and was a machinist, returning his craftsman tools, maybe one or two. I have done the same, maybe one or two, maybe one actually. Like someone said, now we have CL, flea markets, garage sales, internet, and all those millions of sold Craftsman tools are out there waiting to be returned, by people who didn't buy them from Sears. A company can't afford that.
They should lifetime it only to the original owner with receipt or credit card. I think that was the original idea, since years back most people would buy a tool new, made in USA of course, no question on that, at a fair price. The idea of not having the receipt and still honoring the warranty was very generous of Sears IMO. They sort of started the whole lifetime thing I think.

A few weeks ago I bought two new Craftsman 25' tape measures at Ace hardware. I thought package said forever warranty, have to check. Made in C of course.

 

[cashishift]

Looks like not only have the tools changed but the people. I don't remember my Dad who was born in 1912 and was a machinist, returning his craftsman tools, maybe one or two. I have done the same, maybe one or two, maybe one actually. Like someone said, now we have CL, flea markets, garage sales, internet, and all those millions of sold Craftsman tools are out there waiting to be returned, by people who didn't buy them from Sears. A company can't afford that.
They should lifetime it only to the original owner with receipt or credit card. I think that was the original idea, since years back most people would buy a tool new, made in USA of course, no question on that, at a fair price. The idea of not having the receipt and still honoring the warranty was very generous of Sears IMO. They sort of started the whole lifetime thing I think.

A few weeks ago I bought two new Craftsman 25' tape measures at Ace hardware. I thought package said forever warranty, have to check. Made in C of course.

I would have borrowed a tape from someone before I would have bought one made in china..

ick.

 

[pipsters]

I would have borrowed a tape from someone before I would have bought one made in china..

ick.

http://www.cripedistributing.com/starrett-controlok-tape-measure-ac110me12-p-4376.html

$7.50 + shipping

 

[shampoop]

Looks like not only have the tools changed but the people. I don't remember my Dad who was born in 1912 and was a machinist, returning his craftsman tools, maybe one or two. I have done the same, maybe one or two, maybe one actually. Like someone said, now we have CL, flea markets, garage sales, internet, and all those millions of sold Craftsman tools are out there waiting to be returned, by people who didn't buy them from Sears. A company can't afford that.
They should lifetime it only to the original owner with receipt or credit card. I think that was the original idea, since years back most people would buy a tool new, made in USA of course, no question on that, at a fair price. The idea of not having the receipt and still honoring the warranty was very generous of Sears IMO. They sort of started the whole lifetime thing I think.

A few weeks ago I bought two new Craftsman 25' tape measures at Ace hardware. I thought package said forever warranty, have to check. Made in C of course.

Screw that. There is no way I'm going to keep a receipt for every tool i own. ANd even if i did keep a receipt, do you know that hey are not made from ink printed on paper anymore? They use special paper that turns black with heat and the characters eventually fade. Even if the tools are purchased used and warrantied, odds are they're still probably in the lenght of one lifetime. When was the last time you saw a 80+ year old craftsman tool warrantied?

 

[kc-steve]

There has always been garage sales as well as people buying and selling used tools. However, I think the problem today might be competitive pricing pressures and bad accounting. Craftsman has tried to compete with overseas competitors in pricing yet still try and maintain Snap-On's style warranty. Sooner or later something major will change things if Craftsman doesn't go under first. It's just the current global economics.

Steve

 

[VWandDodge]

once the accountants and marketers got involved, lifetime warranties pretty much became meaningless. in todays economy, it has nothing to do with an amazing, indestructible, product. after the likelihood of failure and the percentage of people likely to return the product is calculated and weighed against manufacturing costs, it just means the company feels they will generate more sales with the warranty than it will cost to honor warranty claims.

eta. i think you sum up the situation pretty well. in most cases, it really is "take them back and get more garbage."

at this point, i'll take my chances with an old tool from a dead company before i buy something new because of a lifetime warranty.

That's why I'm a convert to stuff like Stahwille, Hazet, and the like. A quality tool with a lifetime warranty that actually matters.

 

[nato]

]...I guess you stamp guaranteed on a box and **** in it and all you have is a guaranteed box of ****...[/B]
Man this is frustrating...

I'm totally stealing that for my sig quote lol!!!
You are right though, and I agree. It's a frightening path to go down especially into the future

 

[Notwerk]

Offshoring *****, but I do kind of agree that we brought it on ourselves a bit. This forum is full of stories about people who bought flea market tools and then brought them in for warranty replacement. How long do you think a company can keep giving away free tools?

There's an appliance store down here that keeps track of all the purchases you make with them. Every location is tied into a computer system where the salesman can see your entire purchase history with the company. When you've got a long record with them, the salesmen are quicker to cut a deal with you because they know you've been a loyal customer.

I wonder if Sears can do the same. When you buy a Craftsman tool, they keep it on file and whenever the original owner brings in a broken tool he has on record, it gets replaced without question. It's not as nice as the current warranty, but it sure would cut down on the abuse. I'd take that warranty if it would help increase the quality and the consistency of the product lines.

Long ago, I bought Husky tools when I didn't know any better. I've never broken any of them, but I'm pretty sure I won't get very far trying to get any of those items replaced: Home Depot doesn't carry most of these items in open stock anymore, and almost all of it is of Chinese manufacture now (though I suppose that was true even of the "USA" Husky stuff I bought). The Husky warranty is practically worthless. Whatever tool you buy today will likely be discontinued or sourced from a different COO tomorrow.

Of course, I also recognize that a big part of the offshoring thing is just manufacturers looking to widen their margins...

 

[oldtools]

Is it the fact you get a foreign made tool (Asian origin) as a replacement that really piss you off or is it the fact that the foreign made tool is really bad? Have any body perform an unbiase test between a Chinese Snap On vs an American Snap On?

 

[warmpancakes]

Have any body perform an unbiase test between a Chinese Snap On vs an American Snap On?

havent found any chinese made real snap on stuff