What are the holdbacks for Subaru?

[NorDel Garage]

I am shopping for a Subaru Outback,Forester, or an Impreza. I am also considering a Toyota RAV4. Any other tips to get a good deal would be appreciated. I do have a copy of Consumer Reports Car Ratings Guide. I am also keeping my eye open for a used car , but lean more towards buying from a private owner. Also my wife wants a new car , and she does make a very good living,so I cant begrudge her on this one. Thanks.Ken.

 

[FITO]

I can't help you on holdbacks but I can tell you my wife loves her Forester. We were shopping during the cash for clunkers and the Forester was the most popular model so they wouldn't even match my banks car buying service quote.
I ended up finding a year old with 13000 miles. Its been a great car.
Good luck with your purchase.

 

[IDASHO]

Id stay away from any 2.5, especially turbocharged.

Even after many revisions, they are having terrible problems.

Unfortunately, if you are looking at low mileage used, that REALLY narrows your search.

Im int he same boat myself, and Iv narrowed it down to an older 2.2 Impreza 5-door (if I can find one with less than 50k miles..... GOOD LUCK!) or a brand new Impreza 5-door with the 2.0

Im looking for 30+ mpg, 4 doors, and a bit of cargo space. My '84 GL does great, but the wife wants a Subaru for herself

 

[jjjrmx5]

What years/age are you looking for?

If new, fine.

If used, as mentioned above, many if not most of the 2.5 Legacys and lagasy Outbacks suffer from the head gasket problem.

R and R is over $1,000 and the problem is a nuisance because it is a flat4/boxer engine.

Just Google "Subaru 2.5 head gasket issues" and it will give you the 411.

Current cars seem to be sorted out.

A bit on the "tinny side" compared to German made vehicles but still a good value for the money as long as you find a good clean one.

IDASHO, my parents had a neighbor that bought one of the 2.2 STi coupes new in Blue with the gold wheels (that matched the rally car livery) years ago . Low miles and not abused and she traded it in recently for a new Nissan Cube. I was heartboken as that Suby was an awesome buy and I missed out.
Boo...

LOL.

 

[SMKS]

Id stay away from any 2.5, especially turbocharged.

Even after many revisions, they are having terrible problems.

I think you are exaggerating the issues on the newer engines.

I'd suggest the OP do his research, but take this poster's advice with a grain of salt.

 

[b-body-bob]

My wife loves her Forester, but I don't. Can't put my finger on exactly why, but I just don't like the thing. Doesn't matter though since I'm not paying for it.

I found that if you change the oil, use the Subaru recommended 0w15 (or whatever it is). I changed it with 10w30 and the thing would rattle like hell at start up.

We looked at used Foresters and here people seem to keep the things forever so all the used ones were either high mileage or priced like they were precious.

 

[RAYJAY]

on the 2.5 anything after 2002 should be ok with the head gaskets, that would be the single overhead cam motors are really no problems, we have a 2004 GT legacy with 103,000 on it its the last year of the non turbo GT. on the turbo 2.5 the only problem was either owners not do the oil changes on time or there was a factory problem with a screen in the oil line for the turbo blocking up,
as for the 2.2 vs the 2.5 really don't see a problem with either

the Forester is based on the Impreza so there is more aftermarket parts available to mod them

a good site to find out more about Subaru's is

http://www.ultimatesubaru.org

 

[54FordPanel]

This tool is very helpful for car shopping. Here's the Subaru link.

http://www.truecar.com/prices-new/subaru/

You can look up any new car and see what incentives, rebates and I guess holdbacks, but I'm not really sure what a holdback is.

http://www.truecar.com/

I use it for dream shopping, as I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a brand new car or truck. Sigh.....

 

[IDASHO]

I think you are exaggerating the issues on the newer engines.

I'd suggest the OP do his research, but take this poster's advice with a grain of salt.

You should go visit a Subaru dealer.

Im in there all the time picking up little items for my "classic" GL lol....

I cannot think of one time in the last year that Ive been in there when they didndt have a 2.5 in for headgaskets.

More than once it was VERY new cars, 2-3 years old, with less than 60k miles.


Many people buy the 2.5 powered Subarus, and Im sure many do fine, but knowing the problems that many of them have I wont touch them.

If Im buying a subaru, it better have a motor that ISNT known for problems.
Headgaskets every 60-100k miles is bull-****. This is 2012, headgaskets issues should be a thing of the past, not a reason to employ mechanics.

 

[SMKS]

I use it for dream shopping, as I don't think I'll ever be able to afford a brand new car or truck. Sigh.....

Don't feel too bad, I think there are plenty of us in that boat.

In reality, I probably could afford a new car (albeit a relatively affordable one), but I'm not willing to take on that much debt.

 

[melliott28]

A good place for Subaru Forester info is www.subaruforester.org. They have a lot of info there.

I have a 2004 Forester XT (turbo) and it is pretty good car. My major complaint is that the check engine light comes on intermittently and then goes off. When I get time to take it to the dealer it always seems to go out.

If looking at the current generation Foresters, they are really nice and are high on my list when I decide to replace my Forester. But, from what I have been told, because they are bigger and heavier, the gas mileage is not good. Also, Subaru has recently had a surge in popularity, so you are unlikely to get a "good deal".

 

[BADSIX]

have you looked at the honda crv, my wife has one and likes it. this is my 3rd honda and all 3 have been trouble free well over 100k mi.

 

[dirttracker18]

A good place for Subaru Forester info is www.subaruforester.org. They have a lot of info there.

I have a 2004 Forester XT (turbo) and it is pretty good car. My major complaint is that the check engine light comes on intermittently and then goes off. When I get time to take it to the dealer it always seems to go out.

If looking at the current generation Foresters, they are really nice and are high on my list when I decide to replace my Forester. But, from what I have been told, because they are bigger and heavier, the gas mileage is not good. Also, Subaru has recently had a surge in popularity, so you are unlikely to get a "good deal".

Off topic but

Your dealer can/should look at the history for codes and determine what your issue is, intermittent or not. If the light comes on the code is stored even if the light goes out.

 

[MR_T]

I am shopping for a Subaru Outback,Forester, or an Impreza. I am also considering a Toyota RAV4. Any other tips to get a good deal would be appreciated. I do have a copy of Consumer Reports Car Ratings Guide. I am also keeping my eye open for a used car , but lean more towards buying from a private owner. Also my wife wants a new car , and she does make a very good living,so I cant begrudge her on this one. Thanks.Ken.

I would not buy a 2011 or older Impreza just because of the gas mileage upgraded in 2012 (same body-style just better mileage ) 25 city/34 hwy mpg vs 20 city/27 hwy. Even if you don't care about the mpg, it will hurt you in resale value

http://www.edmunds.com/subaru/impreza/2012/
http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/bymodel/2011_Subaru_Impreza.shtml

If you are looking to buy new, check out the cx-5, my buddy works at a Mazda stealership and loves the sifter on the 6 speed manual, too bad you can't get it with AWD, and it gets 35 mpg highway

 

[R6 Racer]

I can't speak on the Subaru but you also asked about the Rav. My sister in law has one & absolutely loves it. My wife has gone on a few trips with her in it where they split the driving duties. She likes it so much that it's the vehicle she wants next when the time comes.

Steve

 

[58Yeoman]

We bought a used '08 Subie from the dealer in '10, with about 32,000 miles. It's my wife's second Subie, the previous one was an '01. The old one had two transmissions before we sold it; she bought it new. The new one has had a right rear wheel bearing changed, the rear end changed (both while still under warranty), and now at 55k, the left rear bearing is howling. Geez...

 

[lotsoftools]

www.subaruoutback.org is a good place to get info on them. I have a '97 and I like it.
The downside is the head gasket issue, but like others have said that has been worked out in the newer models. There is also some sort of steering wheel shaking issue in the 2010 and newer Outbacks. I don't know much about it, but I believe there is a whole mess of threads about it on that website.

 

[Isaac-1]

I don't know how stable you are in your current location, just be aware Subaru does lack dealerships in many regions, I have often considered buying one, but have not since the last time I checked (a year or two ago) they did not have a single dealership in my state (Louisiana), with the nearest dealer over 150 miles away in Texas. By comparison looking at more "exotic" cars there are 3 or 4 Porsche dealerships in the state, several BMW, and Mercedes, just no Subura.

 

[mycave]

The new Subaru Crosstrek looks sharp. I just wish they would sell their diesel version here.

 

[SMKS]

I don't know how stable you are in your current location, just be aware Subaru does lack dealerships in many regions, I have often considered buying one, but have not since the last time I checked (a year or two ago) they did not have a single dealership in my state (Louisiana), with the nearest dealer over 150 miles away in Texas. By comparison looking at more "exotic" cars there are 3 or 4 Porsche dealerships in the state, several BMW, and Mercedes, just no Subura.

There are at least two Subaru dealers in LA. It looks like there are two in southern LA.

http://m.subaru.com/tools/maps/dealer/find/70030

 

[Duck72]

I was recently looking into the WRX and found this place.
http://www.clubwrx.net/forums/content/

In one of the forums they have a checklist on how to buy a used one. Looked pretty thorough. I think taking it to your favorite shop and having it compression tested was one of the items recommended to do on a used one.

 

[Russian]

I'd recommend to stay away from the Rav4. Underpowered, strange shift points and overpriced for the abomination that it is.

 

[Steevo]

I just purchased a new 2012 Outback Premium model for my wife. Our best price we could find was through Costco. The deal with them is $250 below dealer invoice.
Plus, if you buy before their deal expires, Costco will give you a $500 Costco cash card once the sale is confirmed.

We looked at the outback and the Forester, and the Outback was much more solid, quiet, and roadworthy (IMO).

Impreza's are on back order, with 60-90 day waits after you put your money down.

 

[steam_mill]

I had a 2000 Subaru Outback. In 10 years, over 200,000 miles. Hard miles. Stop and go traffic, hauling boats and trailers etc.

Here's what I did to the car:

Oil changes, brakes. And 2 dumb things: Signal stalk and power window button. That's it.

When I traded it in, AC and everything else worked. It need new suspension and I didn't want to spend the money on such an old and used car.

Got 4500 on trade in.

Traded it in on a 2010 (november 2009) Subie Forester. Same abuse. In 45,000 miles, I've done oil changes and back brakes.

They are "OK" on gas. I regularly get 30 mpg at 60 mph. I didn't get the new outback as I hate the front end and it comes with a little sunroof.

Forester sunroof is huge.

 

[ksj9393]

Sold my 2001 Scooby Outback for $5400 3 mos ago. 169,000 miles. Loved the car and hated to see it go. Was annoyed by O2 sensor malfunction causing check engine light, but finally learned to ignore. Also seemed to have soft rotors that could only be turned once before replacement, and seems like I was always doing brake work. Other than that, changed the timing belt when advised, and drove it and drove it and drove it. And drove it some more. Averaged 26 to 28 mpg depending upon season (actually did better in winter!) and it pretty much never varied from that. Only complaint I have is that the passenger floor compartment seemed to let in a lot of outside air, so my wife constantly complained about her feet being cold. She'd turn up the fan, and then my feet would roast. No independent climate zones! Cannot speak for newer models, but intend to look into another Scooby when we are again in the market.

 

[snorky18]

there's some spirited discussions about when subaru "fixed" the head gasket problems in the 2.5L motor. Generally somewhere around 02-04. But anything 2005 and newer is generally agreed to be fine.

 

[Steevo]

And watch out for those Pinto gas tanks, too . . .

 

[FleaDog]

Daily driver
95 leggy 2.2 4eat trans.
Great durable motor and easy to work on. Trans too.


Fun car
06 Sti with lots of mods.

 

[6768rogues]

Don't feel too bad, I think there are plenty of us in that boat.

In reality, I probably could afford a new car (albeit a relatively affordable one), but I'm not willing to take on that much debt.

After driving old cars, working and saving for retirement for many years, I now am retired and in the position where I can buy with cash. Now a new car is not worth the huge expense and I drive old clunkers. Maybe that is why I was able to save enough to retire early.

 

[NorDel Garage]

Thanks to even one who posted. The advice was helpful, and the links to get more info was great! Two nights ago we bought a 2012 Forester and are looking forward to many years of service from this car.

 

[nanofrog]

We looked at the outback and the Forester, and the Outback was much more solid, quiet, and roadworthy (IMO).

+1

Went the same way in 2010 for the same/similar reasons. Only a couple of minor recalls (PS hose and programming IIRC) and basic maintenance required as it's just about to reach 60k (need a tune-up and a few other odds & ends for maintenance).

They are "OK" on gas. I regularly get 30 mpg at 60 mph.

I'm getting ~30mpg mixed from my Outback, which is much better than what I'm accustomed to (20 - 22 mixed typically). Hwy, it gets 38 - 39mpg, but the body isn't as tall.

Only complaint I have is that the passenger floor compartment seemed to let in a lot of outside air, so my wife constantly complained about her feet being cold. She'd turn up the fan, and then my feet would roast.

Sounds like every Honda I've ever owned (1 Civic, 2 Accords, 1 Odyssey).

No independent climate zones! Cannot speak for newer models, but intend to look into another Scooby when we are again in the market.

Independent Climate Control is available on newer Subies.

 

[subarub4]

We looked at used Foresters and here people seem to keep the things forever so all the used ones were either high mileage or priced like they were precious.

Yep older Subaru's do keep a good resell value, I have 267,000 on my 97 Outback and I did the headgaskets last year it was my first time but pretty easy when you have the service manual.

The motors with the most headgasket issues was the EJ25D which if I can remember went from 97-99 if I can remember before they switched to the Phase II engine.

 

[p_mori7]

A "Holdback" is an amount of money added into the Net Cost of the car, that the manufacturer "holds" and at some future point in time gives "back" to the dealer. Typically the salesmen are not paid on the future "holdback" as the profit in a deal is calculated using the Dealer Net cost.

Holdbacks are typically about 2% of the Dealer Net value of the car, before freight charges etc. So if a car has a $30,000.00 MSRP, there might be about $1500 of built-in profit for the dealer, and $1500.00 of freight & misc fees; making the D/Net about $27,000.00

2% of $27K is $540.00

The holdback is usually paid back to the dealership quarterly or annually depending on the manufacturer, and may be dependant on the dealer achieving his sales goals set by the manufacturer.

I don't know if Subaru has a "Holdback" policy or not, but almost all manufacturers have something similar to this.

 

[Plumber Crack Kid]

We bought a used '08 Subie from the dealer in '10, with about 32,000 miles. It's my wife's second Subie, the previous one was an '01. The old one had two transmissions before we sold it; she bought it new. The new one has had a right rear wheel bearing changed, the rear end changed (both while still under warranty), and now at 55k, the left rear bearing is howling. Geez...

Rear wheel bearings were a problem on the '05 (and probably other years in sequence) Outback/Legacy's, and Subaru extended the warranty for those. I had my Outback in to replace the left rear bearing last year, and they wouldn't replace the other side until it showed signs of failing ... I've still got a lot of miles left, but it is a hassle to take back.

One thing that has been a surprising problem for me and my turbo Outback is the CV boots failing. My passenger side boot tore a few years ago and I had it replaced at a shop. My driver side failed ~3mo ago and I've been driving around with it torn (no clicking, but I'm expecting it'll fail). Just yesterday I got a bad burning odor in the car and found the passenger side had failed again ... re-man axle assemblies are ~$80 from NAPA, ~$180 from Subaru, and I'll be replacing both sides very soon. I'll do the passenger side first and see if it was a Subaru axle the re-failed, then buy the NAPA axles if so, else buy the Subarus.

Gas mileage on the turbo 2.5s is miserably bad (I average ~18mpg mixed), but they are a lot of fun to drive.

 

[Bob275]

I'd be willing to bet that 90% of the head gasket "problems" on the turbo 2.5l have to do with the owner turning up the boost. If you do that without installing ARP headstuds, of course you will blow headgaskets, the increased boost is lifting the heads... 18mpg average like the above poster gets probably has a lot to do with not being able to stay out of boost... stay out of boost and 30 is easily accomplished.

 

[SMKS]

Thanks to even one who posted. The advice was helpful, and the links to get more info was great! Two nights ago we bought a 2012 Forester and are looking forward to many years of service from this car.

 

[58Yeoman]

We bought a used '08 Subie from the dealer in '10, with about 32,000 miles. It's my wife's second Subie, the previous one was an '01. The old one had two transmissions before we sold it; she bought it new. The new one has had a right rear wheel bearing changed, the rear end changed (both while still under warranty), and now at 55k, the left rear bearing is howling. Geez...

Dealer replaced the bearing under warranty. 60k or five years...I didn't know that.

 

[snorky18]

One thing that has been a surprising problem for me and my turbo Outback is the CV boots failing. My passenger side boot tore a few years ago and I had it replaced at a shop. My driver side failed ~3mo ago and I've been driving around with it torn (no clicking, but I'm expecting it'll fail). Just yesterday I got a bad burning odor in the car and found the passenger side had failed again ... re-man axle assemblies are ~$80 from NAPA, ~$180 from Subaru, and I'll be replacing both sides very soon. I'll do the passenger side first and see if it was a Subaru axle the re-failed, then buy the NAPA axles if so, else buy the Subarus.

For our Forester when I replaced the axles I didn't look at Subaru b/c of price. Stay far away from Autozone or advance for this particular piece of hardware (failed subtly w/in a couple weeks, and caused wicked hard-to-diagnose vibrations in the drivetrain under certain conditions that were difficult to duplicate). Ended up putting NAPA axles in there, and had 60K trouble free miles from them before selling the car.

 

[StriderTB]

Just picked up Impreza #5 last week.

My other Impreza is a 2001 2.5RS coupe, with just under 200k miles. Runs like a top.