What can go into a trench?

[LifeLongWNYer]

Starting construction on a pole barn, and wondering what I can bury in a trench.

I plan to run:

1) two PVC conduits, 2" each, one for 220 VAC, one for a spare
2) one 1" PVC conduit for low voltage wiring; ie: alarm circuits, data and telephone
3) one PVC water pipe, probably 1"
4) one PVC pipe for natural gas, size currently to be determined

So which can be in the same trench? I have heard that I can put the water in first, at 48" deep ( Rochester NY, ), backfill with sand to 18" below grade, then lay all the others, side by side, and fill with sand to 6-8", then top it all off with topsoil.

Are my sources right?


JBP

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[The Cobbler]

I think all I had to do was separate the nat gas line 24" horizontally from the electric .

 

[Bert_]

You can't run natural gas in pvc and I personally wouldn't run it for water either.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

Starting construction on a pole barn, and wondering what I can bury in a trench.

I plan to run:

1) two PVC conduits, 2" each, one for 220 VAC, one for a spare
2) one 1" PVC conduit for low voltage wiring; ie: alarm circuits, data and telephone
3) one PVC water pipe, probably 1"
4) one PVC pipe for natural gas, size currently to be determined

JBP

1) you can only run 1 circuit to a detached structure so you shouldnt need a second conduit for electrical. furthermore, you should be running a 120/240 4-wire branch feeder to a subpanel with an isolated neutral bar and 2 grounding electrodes not a 220vac circuit

2) I would run 2 conduits for low voltage

3) PEX would be better than PVC for water

4) PVC is not allowed for N Gas. you should be running polyethylene pipe for gas

https://www.homedepot.com/p/HOME-FL...6e792d5e704a1cb9e3cc4d00e7777484&gclsrc=3p.ds

 

[Terry D]

Only time that i have ran multiple electrical conduits to an out building, is where they wanted a sub panel, but also wanted to 3-way the coach lights so they could turn them on from the house. The power for the lights has to originate from the garage

 

[larry4406]

Only time that i have ran multiple electrical conduits to an out building, is where they wanted a sub panel, but also wanted to 3-way the coach lights so they could turn them on from the house. The power for the lights has to originate from the garage

I did this on my barn project. Its very nice to be able to turn lights on from the house then walk to the lit barn. Sub panel in barn fed from house, then barn feeds the lighting circuit and 3-way at the house.

 

[yeldogt]

We did a 1" black polly water line -- for water. 2" black polly so they could fish the propane line. Feeds for generator .... line to studio for power and low volt. Some of the trench had the main feed from the meter and the catv drop ... All in the same trench ... all inspected.

 

[Wayne1340]

All in the same trench is fine on private property. Hold minimum depth per code.
My conduits sleeves are at 4’— 4’-6” due to the water pipes
1” for soft water
1” for hard water
1” for DATA
2” for power
2” for gas
1-1/2” for air back to the house

Wayne

 

[Chuckster in NJ]

ALL can go in the same trench......... Utility companies are exempt from the NEC and can do whatever they want.

BTW! I am still waiting for the code sections that say you can’t put water, gas and electric in the same trench.

 

[txvwnut]

If it’s big enough that one neighbor that called the city every week during construction stating I was building without a permit while the permit was clearly displayed as per city requirements. And for the record the city building department will not check to see if you have a permit before they show up to issue stop orders and fines.

 

[wyliesdiesels]

ALL can go in the same trench......... Utility companies are exempt from the NEC and can do whatever they want.

BTW! I am still waiting for the code sections that say you can’t put water, gas and electric in the same trench.

A branch feeder would not be from the utility side of the meter so the NEC most definitely applies here.

And utilities cant do whatever they want. They have codes they abide by too. Just not the same as building codes.

Furthermore, the NEC has no bearing on water and gas lines so your comment makes no sense here

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks to all for replying. Especially to wyliesdiesels who always has good info.

Understood on the my incorrect types of pipe for the water and gas, thanks for those corrections.

Someone mentioned laying in only one conduit for high voltage, and my plan was to use two. One was for immediate use to get power to the building, the other was a spare, for either something that comes up in the future, or in case the first one gets compromised.

PVC is cheap, I will drop in two smaller conduits for LV use, again one for use now and one as a spare, or future. I am thinking I can get internet out there via WiFi, so probably all I need to run is an alarm circuit. BUT, as spare is good.

wyliesdiesels, your comment on the 4-wire branch circuit is above my pay grade, and knowledge level, but it made me ( once again ) aware of how complicated the NEC is. I do know a licensed electrician, I will have him tell me how to get power out there.

SO, my original question really was what utilities I could drop into the same trench, and ( aside from the hookers and cows ) is sounds as if I can get everything in one ditch, although someone locally has told me that I need a 18" separation between the water and the HV electric. Not a problem.

Thanks to all, as always, I appreciate the advice.



JBP

 

[Metal-Marc]

Good to have 2" foam board insulation on top of the water pipes to help with freezing.

Lay some yellow "warning" tape on top of all the conduit, so the next guy digging wil get a warning before tearing all the conduit.

 

[LifeLongWNYer]

Thanks Mtl-Marc, but I had a buddy tell me about something better. The electrical supply houses sell a metallic ribbon, silver colored, with a red stripe on it. Two benefits....

First, it works as you suggested with the yellow tape, just a different color.

Secondly, it is metallic, a person attempting to trace a conduit can find it with a metal detector. Also, guys who do this all the time clip a "transmitter" on the tape, the signal is easier to trace.




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[Syberia]

Starting construction on a pole barn, and wondering what I can bury in a trench.

Got anyone you need getting rid of?

 

[moab11]

I would put the water and gas line at the bottom of the trench(48" down as you said), back fill to 36" below grade, run the conduits for high voltage, back to 18" below grade and put in the conduit for data and some cheap marking tape. Back fill once again to ~12" below grade and then run the wire trace tape.

A few things this accomplishes is separation between the different utilities, and allows you to properly pack the trench in lifts as you go. Also puts the hard to repair things down deeper, and better protected. Same with the two rows of tape, the wire trace stuff lets you know you are close, then the cheap stuff tells you to watch out.

 

[Bert_]

I would put the water and gas line at the bottom of the trench(48" down as you said), back fill to 36" below grade, run the conduits for high voltage, back to 18" below grade and put in the conduit for data and some cheap marking tape. Back fill once again to ~12" below grade and then run the wire trace tape.

A few things this accomplishes is separation between the different utilities, and allows you to properly pack the trench in lifts as you go. Also puts the hard to repair things down deeper, and better protected. Same with the two rows of tape, the wire trace stuff lets you know you are close, then the cheap stuff tells you to watch out.

Putting the different utilities at different depths in the same trench sounds good until you have to get to the water line on the bottom.

If I'm doing it they all get buried at the same depth.