What causes paint to do this?

[ATC]

I started painting my headache rack yesterday. It started as bare steel. I scuffed it with 80 grit and wiped it all down with brake cleaner before I started. I'm using Rustoleum gloss black spray-paint.

The first coat went on great...a couple runs...but otherwise perfect. I put it in the garage and came back to it 24hrs later. Today, I wet sanded a couple runs with 1000 grit and wiped it dry with a clean/new shop rag.

I put a second coat on it today, and noticed the paint started to crackle....or wrinkle in a few spots. Two spots are where I wet sanded. Two other spots are where I never even touched.

So what causes this? Oil residue? Humidity? It was pretty humid when I was painting...

I've had this happen one other time on a 3-drawer filing cabinet I painted. One drawer face did this, while the rest of the cabinet turned out perfect...

Bad picture, but it's dark:

 

[dadsEH]

Paint application too thick, too soon.
let it dry for a week before further sanding.

 

[bmxdad]

The orange peeling? Usually some kind of contamination that reacts with the paint. That's my experience anyway.

 

[tcianci]

Read the instructions on the can, the part that says recoat within 1 hour or after 48 hours or something similar to that.

 

[ATC]

Paint application too thick, too soon.
let it dry for a week before further sanding.

If that were the case, why wouldn't the whole thing be like that? This is only the second time I've seen this paint do this in years.

Read the instructions on the can, the part that says recoat within 1 hour or after 48 hours or something similar to that.

I will take blame, in that I didn't read the can. I've always thought that 24hrs was pretty standard (maybe I'm getting it confused with RTV or JB Weld...which I use quite a bit more than paint)

 

[ATC]

The orange peeling? Usually some kind of contamination that reacts with the paint. That's my experience anyway.

That's what I'm thinking, since it is only in a few spots. But it's not like any orange peel that I've seen talked about (hence the name "orange peel"). My paint looks like you've taken an aerial shot of the Rocky Mountains.

 

[doan]

Read the instructions on the can, the part that says recoat within 1 hour or after 48 hours or something similar to that.

THIS ^^^^

Also be careful with what solvent you use for wiping down. If it's not compatible with the solvent in your paint, it will cause problems. Acetone is fine for rustoleum. For bare metal phosphoric acid it a great prep.

 

[J Persons]

I had the same thing happen a couple of weeks ago. I think it's from just too thick an application, too soon. The surface layer of paint seem to dry quicker than the under layers, it shrinks a little and causes the crazing effect.

 

[koditten]

I think it is the mill scale left on. It holds the paint from drying as fast as other areas. Wait a couple days and give it another coat.

1000 grit is a bit too fine. The following coats do not get enough roughness to stick to. It will peel off easy. I have geat luck with 600 grit.

 

[buzz4041]

Brake cleaner is the last thing to use for a painted surface. Solvents in the cleaner and paint reaction. Sand it all down again and wash with dawn dishwashing soap. Put a primer on first so the top coat has something to bond to.

 

[east_tn_emc]

Google it....it is the new "more environmentally friendly" spray paints...second coat going on before the base coat has completely cured. There are many YouTube videos and discussions about it.

 

[OccupantRJ]

VM&P
Naphtha has solved this and other issues in oil or alkyd paints for me. I use it as a wipe down and as a reducer.

 

[lostmind]

normal for Rustoleum . Like has been stated , cure time not correct.

 

[theoldwizard1]

read the instructions on the can, the part that says recoat within 1 hour or after 48 hours or something similar to that.

concur !

 

[PT Doc]

Haven't read all the comments.

If you paint only then you can re oat within the time frame. If you sand, then you have to wait as if you are letting that costing dry. You are opening up the paint and it will be off gassing. So if you do anything but clean it, you have to wait.

 

[John in OH]

concur !

Yep! I've encountered the same problem with this "wrinkling". Not a contamination problem, but a failure to follow the paint curing instructions. For Rustoleum spray cans, second coat should go on fairly soon or much later -- as the can instructs.

Learned this the hard way!!

 

[pop pop]

Follow directions from vendor. You have trapped solvents.

 

[stikman56]

Follow directions from vendor. You have trapped solvents.

I'm saying this as well. Use wax and grease remover designed for painting to clean it with, and follow the directions. I've never had an issue using it to clean before I paint.

 

[NUTTSGT]

It's Rustoleum, I swear sometimes 48 hours isn't enough time.

 

[ATC]

Thanks guys. Looks like I'll wait another day or two before I touch it again.
The first coat wasn't tacky when the second went on...but my fingernail would easily leave an impression.

 

[mikester]

When all else fails, read the back of the can ! Most of the rattle can paints have to be recoated within an hour. After an hour many require a 7 day curing time. You read it right. 7 DAYS ! Any sooner (and trust me, 5 days=too soon) it will check and look like ****. One of the biggest reasons that I hate rattle can paint.
I painted a few brackets for my car with Duplicolor enamel last fall. I have to do them all over. They faded and look like **** compared to the parts that I sprayed with a good automotive acrylic enamel.

 

[mikester]

BTW, I wouldn't use brake cleaner as a paint prep. I usually wipe bare metal down with lacquer thinner to get most of the oils off but then I use a fast drying wax and grease remover before painting. Some solvents leave a film.

 

[ATC]

When all else fails, read the back of the can

Well...you know how we men are with instructions

The can does say "within 1 hour, or after 48 hours"

Tomorrow is the day, although it is supposed to be in the low 90's. That means 100-110 in the garage...

 

[ATC]

BTW, I wouldn't use brake cleaner as a paint prep. I usually wipe bare metal down with lacquer thinner to get most of the oils off but then I use a fast drying wax and grease remover before painting. Some solvents leave a film.

Yes, some brands do leave a residue. I use the Wearever and CRC (red can) with great luck. I only use them on bare metal...not on paint or plastic.

I really need to get some paint prep chemicals, as I have none.

 

[mikester]

Yes, some brands do leave a residue. I use the Wearever and CRC (red can) with great luck. I only use them on bare metal...not on paint or plastic.

I really need to get some paint prep chemicals, as I have none.

Go to your local body shop supply and buy the fast dry stuff. Ive used solvent based wax and grease remover and Ive had issues. Ive had pretty good results with even the house brand.
Im sure theres a few auto body guys here that can tell you what to buy.

 

[GTA Matt]

Get rustoleums wax and grease remover and wipe it down using that and a blue scotts shop towel. Wear latex gloves and don't fondle the piece you are working on bare handed. What paint are you using, enamel, lacquer? I've found their acrylic enamel doesn't care about dry times between coats, just have to wait until the paint is hard enough to wet sand between coats is what turns into the deciding factor, which depends on temperature, humidity and thickness of coats.

 

[ATC]

1000 grit is a bit too fine. The following coats do not get enough roughness to stick to. It will peel off easy. I have geat luck with 600 grit.

It was either 1000, or 80...that's all I could find in the garage that day
I have since found 220, 600, and 800...

Get rustoleums wax and grease remover and wipe it down using that and a blue scotts shop towel. Wear latex gloves and don't fondle the piece you are working on bare handed. What paint are you using, enamel, lacquer? I've found their acrylic enamel doesn't care about dry times between coats, just have to wait until the paint is hard enough to wet sand between coats is what turns into the deciding factor, which depends on temperature, humidity and thickness of coats.

I'm using this stuff like I always do:

I'm going to WM later today, I'll see if they have the Rustoleum stuff you mention.

 

[softailgarage]

TSP is the best thing to use on any surface prior to painting.

 

[OCD]

I really need to get some paint prep chemicals, as I have none.

Here's what you should get,

I have also started using 2k primer and clear coat... It has hardener in it that you activate before use...

 

[ATC]

Thanks....I'll keep an eye out for those brands. I'm not a complete stranger to the system...I've helped a friend of mine prep and paint 3 vehicles (gonna be another next year I believe).

I guess I just have a problem reading directions

I was going to do a little with it today, but it's in the mid 90's out there which is too hot for me (and the paint). We'll see what tomorrow holds...

 

[mikester]

Heres some good info for you. I made the mistake of using a solvent based cleaner on PPG DP40 primer. When I sprayed on the color I had a ton of fisheyes. Friend that does it for a living told me to never use the stuff on primer. Live and learn.

http://autobodystore.com/ms8.shtml

 

[Bruce Amacker]

BTW, I wouldn't use brake cleaner as a paint prep. I usually wipe bare metal down with lacquer thinner to get most of the oils off but then I use a fast drying wax and grease remover before painting. Some solvents leave a film.

^^^ This.

I had the exact same problem, I used to use Brakeclean for prep but they changed the solvent makeups and they now have isopropyl alcohol and other water based solvents in them. I went back to using lacquer thinner and no more problems.....

 

[Cyberbear]

In all my years painting metal I've never heard of using brake cleaner as a degreaser prior to painting. I personally prefer lacquer thinner and a white rag to see when all the residue has been removed, letting it dry thoroughly before the primer is sprayed on. Unless they now make a self etching paint, I've seldom sprayed over raw steel for something I wanted to last. If it's in the budget, you may want to try powder coating next time.
If humidity is a problem, try warming the parts before painting, especially with Rustoleum. I don't know if you are using rattle can spray paint, but often it is made thin for spraying and can cause some difficulty when putting too much on at first. If this be the case, I usually apply a light almost fog coat to start with before adding, let that dry well, then the follow-up and finish coats. We all have our own methods and tricks based on experience, so just do the best you can.

 

[ATC]

Well I threw on another coat today. I wiped it down with wax & grease remover and sanded with 220. I wiped it down again and went over the trouble spots with a final light coat. One spot started to crackle again, but the rest seemed to do fine. I'm gonna let it ride and chock it up to a learning experience.

Again, as many times as I have used this paint and been around it....this is only the second time I've had this happen. Between thunderstorms tomorrow, I'm gonna try to get it mounted on my truck. I'll throw up some pics when I get a chance.

Thanks!