What defines a complete socket set?

[bradlys]

Recently, I've been searching for a socket set that was "complete". We can likely agree that no skipped sizes for a given drive size is part of completeness. e.g. Given 6-12mm, it should include 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. However, the part I start struggling with is what defines completeness when it comes to the range for a given square drive size. Should I really be getting a 6mm socket for a 1/2" drive? Do I need 38mm for 3/8"?

Where do you draw the line? I've recently been wondering if there is a nice reference chart out there that tells you for a given bolt size and material what the torque on the fastener would be required to deform it. (Take it outside the elastic range and would push it into the plastic range, so to speak) From there, I started wondering how thread pitch would be effected as well - does the thread pitch change the deformation? Do different sized threads change under torque? (I'd guess so) But I figure bolt material and size is probably a good starting point. No idea how this affects nuts and the holes the bolts are in. There needs to be a chart for this somewhere, surely!

And, ultimately, what is the material used for the square drive on your impact, ratchets, and so forth and what is the elastic yield point of that? Ultimately, why have a 38mm socket if you're going to just break the damn 1/4" square drive off every time because no one uses a 38mm bolt head on anything of low enough torque?

Anyway... this stuff keeps me up and night and I wonder if the lords of the garage journal have wondered this too and have come up with an answer.

 

[rlitman]

You can bet that someone here will say this is incomplete:
View media item 23191

 

[dacan23]

Well every set; 1/4, 3/8, 1/2, 3/4, & 1" should come with a 10mm socket. That way you have a chance of finding one, they can't all be lost can they?

 

[richfinn]

Recently, I've been searching for a socket set that was "complete". We can likely agree that no skipped sizes for a given drive size is part of completeness. e.g. Given 6-12mm, it should include 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. However, the part I start struggling with is what defines completeness when it comes to the range for a given square drive size. Should I really be getting a 6mm socket for a 1/2" drive? Do I need 38mm for 3/8"?

Where do you draw the line? I've recently been wondering if there is a nice reference chart out there that tells you for a given bolt size and material what the torque on the fastener would be required to deform it. (Take it outside the elastic range and would push it into the plastic range, so to speak) From there, I started wondering how thread pitch would be effected as well - does the thread pitch change the deformation? Do different sized threads change under torque? (I'd guess so) But I figure bolt material and size is probably a good starting point. No idea how this affects nuts and the holes the bolts are in. There needs to be a chart for this somewhere, surely!

And, ultimately, what is the material used for the square drive on your impact, ratchets, and so forth and what is the elastic yield point of that? Ultimately, why have a 38mm socket if you're going to just break the damn 1/4" square drive off every time because no one uses a 38mm bolt head on anything of low enough torque?

Anyway... this stuff keeps me up and night and I wonder if the lords of the garage journal have wondered this too and have come up with an answer.

1/4 drive 4mm to 15mm

3/8 drive 7mm to 22mm

1/2 drive 10mm to 36mm

Not including specialist sockets obviously, but typically those are the ranges I see in metric

I don't have Imperial sizes anymore, as I live in UK/Europe and work as a Mechanic

Also bear in mind sets made in the EU/Japan might skip sizes as they have differing industry specs on sizing such as JIS etc

It really depends on what you do with the tools

USA tool truck catalogues might be a good place to start

Ko-ken are mainly a socket company and might be a good place to look into for sizing info

Tekton are popular in USA and have a nice website

For European look to Hazet/Stahlwille/Facom

 

[2ndGearRubber]

1/4 drive 4mm to 15mm

3/8 drive 7mm to 22mm

1/2 drive 10mm to 36mm

More or less this. Maybe start 1/2 drive at 13mm. Complete in the sense of "sizes" anyways, within a given drive size. IMO all sockets at the beginning and end of a given drive size, should be duplicated in the sizes above and below. So 1/4 set should always include 13/14/15, and the 1/2 set should always include 17+, despite 3/8 having all of those sizes.



To me, there is no such thing as a complete set of sockets. I have ten 3/8 socket sets on my cart - low profile, standard depth, mid depth, deep, swivel, all in impact and chrome. There's no reasonable way to have a "complete set" which doesn't swallow up most of double bay tool box drawer. And that's without getting into specialty or bit socket sets, or 12 point... or SAE. It's all about what you work on. You could fill that 2 story box in post #2 to the brim, and still not have what you need to repair something.

 

[fxr3guy]

One of those great questions, seems easy on the surface, but it also depends on if you're talking about current production or vintage stuff. Also, do the odd sizes like 25/32" get included? 8 point? For some of my SAE sets, I cheat and look at the old catalogs for their master sets.

Since the vast majority of my tools are based on US aviation, and vintage harleys, I was way behind the curve for metric. Until I started to work on my kids cars. Metric seemed easy, but then some have 4.5, others 5.5 or both. Just when I get them set up, I'll find an odd one like a 6.5mm. Sigh. Then I have to find the rest from that brand cuz I can't just have the one......

 

[nbpt100]

It is subjective to ones industry and region as Richfinn well says. Coming from the USA and work mostly on cars and OPE I would modify what rich provided.

1/4 drive 4mm to 15mm (I would add a 5.5mm and drop the 15)

3/8 drive 7mm to 22mm (I would add the 24mm-very helpful in tight areas where a 1/2" drive has more thickness. Never seen a 23mm bolt or nut)

1/2 drive 10mm to 36mm (Sure but not sure how important some of the larger sizes are such as 23,26,28,29,31 and 35) PS ...curious to hear who uses these and what on.

Of course this omits more sizes like 3/4 and 1" drive and Bit sockets i.e. Hex, Torx, Triple square, Pentagon, 12 pt etc. Then you end up with that huge tool box collection posted by Rlitman. A spoof but has some scary truth to it. But doesn't good humor have some truth to it.

 

[SeisMec]

Like nbpt100 said, it subjective. Ignoring everything but 6 & 12 point hex sockets.

No one has brought up having a selection of socket length and broach depth. IMO, at the very least you should have a set of mid-well sockets in 3/8" drive. It's also good to have a choice of broach depths in 3/8" and 1/2" deep sockets.

It's good to have a set of pass through sockets and the matching drive ratchet.

 

[toddmorr]

OP, why do you care if a set is "complete". You're better off thinking about what you're working on and go from there. If passenger cars just get a 3/8 set 8-19mm, buy bigger 1/2 guys one by one as you need them.

 

[RTM]

It’s complete if it has what I need for the job at hand. I don’t expect to have all the tools, and people are always inventing new sizes, or form factors for fasteners. I’m not going to delay a purchase to decipher that.

Sears used to sell a “complete” 299 piece tool set, but for of those were Allen heads in wrenches, sockets and bits. Might be complete for what you need today, but not for your next car, which may have tri lobed outies for fasteners.

 

[MarineScott]

Finding the 10 mm you lost.

 

[richfinn]

It is subjective to ones industry and region as Richfinn well says. Coming from the USA and work mostly on cars and OPE I would modify what rich provided.

1/4 drive 4mm to 15mm (I would add a 5.5mm and drop the 15)

3/8 drive 7mm to 22mm (I would add the 24mm-very helpful in tight areas of a 1/2" Never seen a 23mm bolt or nut)

1/2 drive 10mm to 36mm (Sure but not sure how important some of the larger sizes are such as 23,26,28,29,31 and 35) PS ...curious to hear who uses these and what on.

Of course this omitts more sizes like 3/4 and 1" drive and Bits i.e. Hex, Torx, Triple square, Pentagon, 12 pt etc. Then you end up with that huge tool box collection posted by Rlitman. A spoof but has some scary truth to it. But doesn't good humor have some truth to it.

That's a great point, after 24mm you probably only need to have sizes that are in common use in 1/2" drive

 

[theoldwizard1]

"Complete" means it has the socket you need right now ! (Hence, my sets have no 12 point sockets.)

So I have had a Craftsman 1/4" set for over 50 years. Yes, I have added on to it (couple of extension, universal - originally Imperial only but add metric sockets). As long as I can remember. it has had a 5/32 socket - one tick below 3/16. I have NEVER used it ... until the other day !

Studs for mounting a carburetor on Briggs and Stratton engine !

 

[Renegade1LI]

Death

 

[richfinn]

Death

wise words, it's never ending

 

[ItsNemo]

Complete has every size you will ever use.

Most of us have way more than complete, I probably haven't actually used half the sockets I have...and I'm not just talking metric vs imperial. Remember it's not just sizes, but 6 vs 12 point, chrome vs impact, shallow vs mid depth vs deep.

 

[nbpt100]

wise words, it's never ending

Yes. I see it know. Light dawns on Marblehead. You never get there. It may asymptotically approach "complete", but yet impossible to arrive there.

 

[Big Bad Jon]

This week, I used sockets as low as 6mm and the largest was 1-7/8. So as long as I have a socket in each size between that, I’m good. No need to have each socket in each drive size. I can improvise and make the drive size work.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

Recently, I've been searching for a socket set that was "complete". We can likely agree that no skipped sizes for a given drive size is part of completeness. e.g. Given 6-12mm, it should include 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, and 12. However, the part I start struggling with is what defines completeness when it comes to the range for a given square drive size. Should I really be getting a 6mm socket for a 1/2" drive? Do I need 38mm for 3/8"?

Where do you draw the line? I've recently been wondering if there is a nice reference chart out there that tells you for a given bolt size and material what the torque on the fastener would be required to deform it. (Take it outside the elastic range and would push it into the plastic range, so to speak) From there, I started wondering how thread pitch would be effected as well - does the thread pitch change the deformation? Do different sized threads change under torque? (I'd guess so) But I figure bolt material and size is probably a good starting point. No idea how this affects nuts and the holes the bolts are in. There needs to be a chart for this somewhere, surely!

And, ultimately, what is the material used for the square drive on your impact, ratchets, and so forth and what is the elastic yield point of that? Ultimately, why have a 38mm socket if you're going to just break the damn 1/4" square drive off every time because no one uses a 38mm bolt head on anything of low enough torque?

Anyway... this stuff keeps me up and night and I wonder if the lords of the garage journal have wondered this too and have come up with an answer.

I have I think a 36mm shallow socket with a 1/4 drive. I got it for installing a oil pressure sender I believe. That oil pressure sender's housing would probably deform if you went much past 15ftlbs. So even a 3/8 drive would probably be too much in that situation.

There are situations where those odd socket size and drive combinations make sense but they are definitely specialty applications.

I think it's possible to go the other way as well too - with having to use a drive size larger than you'd expect for the socket size in order to hit the required fastening torque. I've never encountered it and I'm probably younger than most people on here but my understanding is that it was more common in the past. Modern tools are stronger so smaller tools can handle more torque. For example modern 1/4 ratchets can hit 90ftlbs. 1/2 drive stuff seems to have gotten strong enough that it's making 3/4 less common.

 

[Jtels85]

1/4” Drive, 4-14mm including a 5.5mm, SAE 3/32 - 9/16.

3/8” Drive, 6mm - 19mm (or 22mm, including 20mm), 1/4 - 7-8 (or 1”)

1/2” Drive 10mm - 24mm (or 27mm +, including 20mm), 3/8” - 1-1/8 or 1-1/16.

I will purposely pass on a socket or wrench set which skips sizes. They seem to enjoy leaving out 9mm, 11mm and 16mm. I have personally found a use recently for 9mm, although I can’t recall what it was. I used 11mm last week to remove the roofs off of EZGO TXT’s. 11mm is also good for chewed up 10mm’s underneath a car that may have struck the pavement a time or two. I’ve also run into 16mm on my elliptical machine.

I’m a diehard Craftsman USA fan and I’m excited for the new mechanics tools to return to the USA soon... but mark my words, if their mechanics sets skip sizes, I’m done. If they want to save a few pennies by doing that, then I’ll save a few hundred dollars.

 

[dr_clyde]

I’ll let you know when I get it finished.

As of right now, I have

1/4” dr. chrome metric and sae 6pt deep and shallow
3/8” dr. chrome, metric and sae, 6 and 12 point deep and shallow
3/8 dr. impact, metric and sae, 6 point deep and shallow
1/2” dr. chrome metric and sae, 6 and 12, deep and shallow
1/2” dr. impact, metric and sae, 6 point, deep and shallow
3/4” dr. sae shallow impact 6 point
1” drive sae shallow chrome 6 point

I also have a large assortment of hex, torx and various other specialty sockets like 12 point triple square or 8 point.

I buy them as I need them or find them on sale. I try to get as wide a range as I can for a given drive size.

I also don’t see the need to go above 1” drive for my shop. We occasionally use them, but I haven’t needed a socket bigger than my 1” drive set had.

 

[nbpt100]

I will purposely pass on a socket or wrench set which skips sizes. They seem to enjoy leaving out 9mm, 11mm and 16mm. I have personally found a use recently for 9mm, although I can’t recall what it was. I used 11mm last week to remove the roofs off of EZGO TXT’s. 11mm is also good for chewed up 10mm’s underneath a car that may have struck the pavement a time or two. I’ve also run into 16mm on my elliptical machine.

I’m a diehard Craftsman USA fan and I’m excited for the new mechanics tools to return to the USA soon... but mark my words, if their mechanics sets skip sizes, I’m done. If they want to save a few pennies by doing that, then I’ll save a few hundred dollars.

Skips are annoying. More so than truncating the top end too soon.
If you find a very good deal in spite of skips, you can always justify the purchase and buy the missing sizes as individuals.
I agree the missing one or more of the 9,11, 14, 16, 18mm in socket or wrench sets are traps. Eventually you need them. Go buy as individuals and finish out the set.

In travel style tool kits that come with both SAE and Metric I understand they are trying to save space. By leaving out the 16mm you can substitute the 5/8. 3/4 for 19mm etc. But when they leave out the 14 or 18 and include both of the sizes you can substitute.??? It always baffled/annoyed me. Things the casual handy man will not pick up on. Onward and upward.!!!

 

[charbar]

Just the other day I was looking for what I would call a 'complete' set of sockets to throw in a beater Tahoe I bought, emergency repair type of deal. Just wanted a metric 3/8 drive that would cover most all fasteners on that particular vehicle. So many sets are only 7 or 19mm. Not good enough, need at least a 21 and 22mm. While I was at it I figured make it a 24mm too. 24mm is getting a little large for a 3/8 drive in my opinion, but considering the circumstances I figured it wouldn't hurt.

Was surprised to find a Tekton brand set from 6 to 24mm and doesn't skip any sizes. About as complete as you can get for a 3/8 drive in my opinion and perfect for what I want it for.


In the shop I have short and deep from 5/32 to 2 15/16 in sae, and 4mm to 36mm in metric. Variations of most of those sizes such as swivel, crowsfeet, chrome, impact etc. Still never have everything I need.

 

[Ralf11]

not complete unless it includes drag link, Whitworth, Bristol spline and more

 

[whateg01]

No such thing as complete. You'd need deep and shallow of every size in 6, 8, and 12 point, plus impacts in deep and shallow, and every oddball thing there is. About like saying you have a complete set of drills. Screw machine length, jobber length, extra long (in every possible size), left hand and right, high helix, brad point, screw point, split point, 3 flute, 4 flute, 2 flute, etc, and all of the different combinations. I don't try to have a "complete" set. I just try to have at least one in every size and hope that's enough.

 

[AntonLargiader]

18 is the new 19, just like 12 became the M8 standard for many things replacing 13. The first size I can skip is 20.

I have a 10mm 1/2" drive socket because there's some sort of high-strength bolt or stud that I use it for. Need, probably not, but it's easier to use the longer 1/2" breaker bar on it.

For me:

1/4" 6~13 + 15 (for something that I can run the thread in with 1/4")
3/8" 8~19 + deep 24 for sensors
1/2" 10 + 13-on in the typical sizes (no 20, 23, 25, etc). Nothing I do is over 220 Nm so I can use it with 46mm and oddball application-specific sizes like that although those large sockets are usually 3/4" and need an adapter.

I take unused sizes out of my wrench and socket sets. Easier for me to get what I'm looking for if I don't have to scan through stuff I never use.

 

[Outlawmws]

Let see... I have over 2200 sockets and related drive tool "business ends" (the drive tools for them are on another inventory page), including hex drivers, crows feet, specialty sockets, and more.

Am I done yet?

I just dedicated an old wartime 3/8 drive Geller crows foot to a specific use box (along with a "extra" Bonney Breaker) as its narrow compared to most crows feet - perfect for the need, and much better then heating and bending an old wrench to fit.

Am I done yet?

I'm big on dedicated sets for certain uses. I have a "90 pc" Craftsman Metric set that I aided a fair bit to and its my "road box" for my Samurai. between it an a small metal box for the oversize socket for the front spindle nut, and the hammer impact I keep with it, I had every tool I needed to complete an engine/****** swap (not replace, swap...) so I'm confident I can repair or replace anything on it with no other tools...

Am I done yet?


I'm still breathing, so I guess not...

 

[Ralf11]

Don't forget the 2.5" drive tools...

 

[GrantCee]

Don't forget the 2.5" drive tools...

That's kid's stuff; 3-1/2" drive is how the big boys roll.

When you run across a 215mm fastener, you'll be glad you have it:

https://palmac.net/koken-10400m-215-3-1-2-sq-drive-6-point-sockets/

 

[jayemm]

I don't have any GM vehicles anymore but remember having to separately buy a socket and small wrench for the nuts holding the wires on the starter solenoid. Something like 19/32 (?) or whatever. They are probably still in a toolbox somewhere around here. Don't remember seeing that size in any common set. Ain't cars fun?

 

[Fedwrench]

I don't think I would ever stay awake at night pondering socket set completeness unless, for some unknow reason, I lacked a socket to complete a task.

I think as soon as you think you have everything covered, an engineer will develop a new style fastener any way

I like my 1/4 drive sockets to run 4-15mm with 5.5mm thrown in. I still haven't used a 4.5 mm socket so, I'm on the fence about that one.

I like 3/8 to run 7-24 mm. I've yet to use a 20 or 23mm socket though.

I like 1/2 drive drive to run 13 mm to 27 mm plus 30, 32, 34, 36 mm. I've never used a 1/2 drive socket below 13 mm. Again, I've never used a 20, 23, 25, or 26 mm socket either.

I think there's probably two schools of thought on completeness. First, I want every possible size made. Second, I want only what sizes I'll actually use.

 

[FuzzyTiger]

That's kid's stuff; 3-1/2" drive is how the big boys roll.

When you run across a 215mm fastener, you'll be glad you have it:

https://palmac.net/koken-10400m-215-3-1-2-sq-drive-6-point-sockets/

How much does that thing weigh?

And does the ratchet for it attach to a truck or something?

 

[AA/FC]

It is subjective to ones industry and region as Richfinn well says. Coming from the USA and work mostly on cars and OPE I would modify what rich provided.

1/4 drive 4mm to 15mm (I would add a 5.5mm and drop the 15)

3/8 drive 7mm to 22mm (I would add the 24mm-very helpful in tight areas where a 1/2" drive has more thickness. Never seen a 23mm bolt or nut)

1/2 drive 10mm to 36mm (Sure but not sure how important some of the larger sizes are such as 23,26,28,29,31 and 35) PS ...curious to hear who uses these and what on.

Of course this omits more sizes like 3/4 and 1" drive and Bit sockets i.e. Hex, Torx, Triple square, Pentagon, 12 pt etc. Then you end up with that huge tool box collection posted by Rlitman. A spoof but has some scary truth to it. But doesn't good humor have some truth to it.

I agree with everything you said, but I would keep the 5.5 AND the 15.

Oh, and an entire set of SAE sizes in 1/4, 3/8, 1/2 drive. Hey, someone asked about a "COMPLETE set" and in my opinion, you need both SAE and Metric for it to be considered complete.

Also, for it to be REALLY compete, it needs every size in metric that you mentioned in short and deep, a full set of SAE in short and deep..... all of that needs to be duplicated in 6 point and 12 point sets. Plus a full set of short and deep, SAE and Metric, 6 point impact sockets. That is complete to me. Some guys will probably want mid length sockets in metric and SAE but I don't consider those "necessary".

And of course any type of swivel socket sets are always welcome, in both metric and SAE.

Never buy just metric OR SAE sets..... Always buy them in pairs. Same goes for wrench sets. You don't want your tool box to become lopsided with one type of tool. Must be even amounts of SAE and metric tools. We don't get to decided which type of fasteners we work with, the fastener decides that. Being complete means having everything you could possible need.

If someone works at a car dealership and never sees SAE fasteners and has no desire to buy SAE tools, that fine..... But, if that guy doesn't have any SAE sockets in his tool box, then it's NOT considered a complete set, that's all.

 

[sixfootfive]

Fedwrench nailed it:

I think there's probably two schools of thought on completeness. First, I want every possible size made. Second, I want only what sizes I'll actually use.

The first option listed can get pretty expensive if you don't have a use for them, but to each their own.

 

[johninct]

Very easy. Every size socket Snap-On lists in the catalog for a particular drive size. Also refer to old catalogs that mention sizes no longer available.

 

[GrantCee]

How much does that thing weigh?

And does the ratchet for it attach to a truck or something?

I don't know, but when the impact wrench it attaches to weighs 600 lbs the weight of the socket probably doesn't matter much.

 

[whateg01]

How much does that thing weigh?

And does the ratchet for it attach to a truck or something?

I did the math the other day and it's just a ballpark since I don't have all the actual dimensions, but somewhere around 130#! Need a crane to assemble whatever uses those nuts!

 

[Al Borland]

"What defines a complete socket set?"
You do. If it does everything you need, it's complete.

 

[BDT/NWMN]

"What defines a complete socket set?" This thread title is victimized by a glitch in the English Language. There is no such thing made anywhere by a single manufacturer, or owned or used by any single person, company, or corporation. If The title is reworded to "What defines MY complete socket set?" .....Maybe a few GJ Members Might be able to come up with a realistic answer... But even still, I am thinking the Majority of Us would likely still be screwed for an answer.