What do Europeans use for tool storage?
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LostBoy(IRL)
Well-known member
Interested in the replies you'll get here, snap-on is quite common but not sure I have seen any of the other two. My own lower and top box are Teng.
Snapped-off
Well-known member
Snappy Heritage series boxes are popular in the UK, but they're made in China these days.
Tool storage is generally much much smaller than our stuff..
Tool storage is generally much much smaller than our stuff..
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Why are American's tool boxes so big?
Why are our tool boxes so big? It's like the average American mechanic can't get by without a 54 in or bigger box. Foreigners seem to do just fine with little 26" boxes. Do American shops require its mechanics to have more tools? Are foreign shops providing more tools to its mechanics...
www.garagejournal.com
Related thread. Worth considering the reports from members here that European mechanics are buying far fewer tools over a career than an American counterpart. Shops supply more typically, and are more so like other trades are in the US. Basics are your problem, "shop equipment" is on the shop. Whereas in the US you're buying your own scan tools, timing tools, presses/pullers, etc.
I'm also curious to hear the popular options for brand overseas. OP is Canada similar to the US in terms of the big 4 tool truck brands, then "box stores" bringing up the rest?
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
What's a Teng top/bottom go for? How big are we talking?
CGarage
Well-known member
Depends on the country.
In Germany, the market is dominated by German brands, particularly Gedore.
In Switzerland, I see a lot of Facom in the French and Italian areas, a little USAG, and more German brands in the German speaking areas.
In UK, I see some Snap-On, and then local brands like Halfords being popular. Also, Facom.
Snap-On is available in Europe but it is no where near as popular as in the U.S.
I have seen Snap-On in major auto OEM use, side by side with the best European brands.
In Italy, I see a lot of Beta and USAG.
Dave455
Well-known member
I can answer for the U.K.
Snap On and Mac are available here. Snap On are quite popular, but prices on new boxes are fairly stiff at the mo. Used prices are often reasonable though. I have two used top chests in store that were such a good price I couldn’t turn them down!
Mac have quite a following, perhaps more so for their boxes than their tools. Matco are non existent.
There are a fair number of older boxes out there. Classic Britool ones were actually made by Langenau. They are very high quality, but people are realising that so they are in demand.
If you go down the industrial storage route then there’s a huge choice of cabinet style, width, height, colour etc etc. Everybody I know who’s bought a new box over the last couple of years has gone this route. These Bott boxes are excellent quality, domestically made, and a fraction of the price of say Snap On.
In the U.K. we also have Sealey. To an extent they are the “U.S. General” of the U.K. as everything is imported, but quality is o.k, and you get a lot of storage for the money. Some of the designs are very nice.
As well as all that we have all the euro brands - Facom, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, Beta etc etc, all of which can be excellent value.
Boxes here tend to be smaller than in the U.S, primarily because employers supply so much more. While a mechanic would be expected to have basic hand tools, anything specialised (such as pullers), or specific to one make, will be supplied.
Same goes for consumables, so you will seldom find an expensive tool box with lots of aerosol cans and tins of grease etc.
The only exception is if you get a guy who works for himself, but in that case all his costs are offset against tax, so he’s probably got a wall full of built in cabinets!
Snap On and Mac are available here. Snap On are quite popular, but prices on new boxes are fairly stiff at the mo. Used prices are often reasonable though. I have two used top chests in store that were such a good price I couldn’t turn them down!
Mac have quite a following, perhaps more so for their boxes than their tools. Matco are non existent.
There are a fair number of older boxes out there. Classic Britool ones were actually made by Langenau. They are very high quality, but people are realising that so they are in demand.
If you go down the industrial storage route then there’s a huge choice of cabinet style, width, height, colour etc etc. Everybody I know who’s bought a new box over the last couple of years has gone this route. These Bott boxes are excellent quality, domestically made, and a fraction of the price of say Snap On.
In the U.K. we also have Sealey. To an extent they are the “U.S. General” of the U.K. as everything is imported, but quality is o.k, and you get a lot of storage for the money. Some of the designs are very nice.
As well as all that we have all the euro brands - Facom, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, Beta etc etc, all of which can be excellent value.
Boxes here tend to be smaller than in the U.S, primarily because employers supply so much more. While a mechanic would be expected to have basic hand tools, anything specialised (such as pullers), or specific to one make, will be supplied.
Same goes for consumables, so you will seldom find an expensive tool box with lots of aerosol cans and tins of grease etc.
The only exception is if you get a guy who works for himself, but in that case all his costs are offset against tax, so he’s probably got a wall full of built in cabinets!
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Dave455
Well-known member
I think they were following the style of some of the pre war boxes - think of the older Blackhawk.
They do the other parts in the same style.
Different colours and widths too.
Not sure what the quality is like. Not Snap On obviously, but probably not bad. I did see one and the paint finish looked excellent, but I didn’t get the chance to try the drawers etc. They come with a 10 year warranty.
At least in some (Scandinavia), perhaps many European countries everything is supplied by the shop. Over here mechanics don't have to own a single screwdriver or wrench, and the shop supplies them with safety boots and other work-wear. This has been the rule since long before my time, and still is. I believe the U.K. is an outlier in this regard.
Andres26tnt
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Like others have said boxes here are usually smaller. Prices are not cheap, especially for Europe-made boxes, surprisingly Snap-on on the used market can be had at cheap prices. The most popular boxes or type I have seen here in the UK and Germany is the Toolcart in the 36" to 40", Snap-on roll carts are all over Facebook for under 600$
I own a Halfords(home depot equivalent) 36" and paid too much for it at 450£, should have just bought a used Snap-on cart on Facebook. I would say the quality of the EU-made boxes is excellent, they also have some features I've never seen before. Currently, I'm lusting over a Gedore 1578 rool cart, drawers open in both directions and they have dividers. I just can't justify paying upwards of 500£ for such a small cart(it's tiny).
I own a Halfords(home depot equivalent) 36" and paid too much for it at 450£, should have just bought a used Snap-on cart on Facebook. I would say the quality of the EU-made boxes is excellent, they also have some features I've never seen before. Currently, I'm lusting over a Gedore 1578 rool cart, drawers open in both directions and they have dividers. I just can't justify paying upwards of 500£ for such a small cart(it's tiny).
Interesting design. I like the larger fixed wheels, taking up the spare height that the castors need at the other end. That should make it more likely to roll over bumps when pushed (instead of pulled).
LostBoy(IRL)
Well-known member
I should have clarified, I'm not a mechanic, hobbyist only and not into cars etc. So while I have a reasonably large tool collection its mainly used for my own personal projects.
I have the top box about 15 years and got a good deal on it, bottom was ~€350, 720mm wide, so not too big a unit, but between the two they store quite a bit.
I also have a bedrunka hirth unit that would be quite similar to a vidmar or lista unit, similar also to the Bott make listed above
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rockettauto
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I want them.I think they were following the style of some of the pre war boxes - think of the older Blackhawk.
They do the other parts in the same style.
Different colours and widths too.
Not sure what the quality is like. Not Snap On obviously, but probably not bad. I did see one and the paint finish looked excellent, but I didn’t get the chance to try the drawers etc. They come with a 10 year warranty.
esben57
Well-known member
I bought a Gedore Adjutant (see library photo) from a Rolls aero engine builder. RR gave them all these and found out they were too small to be of use. Then supplied them with Bott, and allowed them to keep the Gedores.I can answer for the U.K.
Snap On and Mac are available here. Snap On are quite popular, but prices on new boxes are fairly stiff at the mo. Used prices are often reasonable though. I have two used top chests in store that were such a good price I couldn’t turn them down!
Mac have quite a following, perhaps more so for their boxes than their tools. Matco are non existent.
There are a fair number of older boxes out there. Classic Britool ones were actually made by Langenau. They are very high quality, but people are realising that so they are in demand.
If you go down the industrial storage route then there’s a huge choice of cabinet style, width, height, colour etc etc. Everybody I know who’s bought a new box over the last couple of years has gone this route. These Bott boxes are excellent quality, domestically made, and a fraction of the price of say Snap On.
In the U.K. we also have Sealey. To an extent they are the “U.S. General” of the U.K. as everything is imported, but quality is o.k, and you get a lot of storage for the money. Some of the designs are very nice.
As well as all that we have all the euro brands - Facom, Stahlwille, Hazet, Gedore, Beta etc etc, all of which can be excellent value.
Boxes here tend to be smaller than in the U.S, primarily because employers supply so much more. While a mechanic would be expected to have basic hand tools, anything specialised (such as pullers), or specific to one make, will be supplied.
Same goes for consumables, so you will seldom find an expensive tool box with lots of aerosol cans and tins of grease etc.
The only exception is if you get a guy who works for himself, but in that case all his costs are offset against tax, so he’s probably got a wall full of built in cabinets!
I liked the 'mad as a box of frogs' design and bought it.
Guess what?
Too small to be of use!
In the UK, garage mechanics all go Snap on.
I was in industry, steel, engineering maintenance. We had any old wooden workbench with
drawers, steel cupboards and anything with a lock.
Andres26tnt
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I bought a Gedore Adjutant (see library photo) from a Rolls aero engine builder. RR gave them all these and found out they were too small to be of use. Then supplied them with Bott, and allowed them to keep the Gedores.
I liked the 'mad as a box of frogs' design and bought it.
Guess what?
Too small to be of use!
In the UK, garage mechanics all go Snap on.
I was in industry, steel, engineering maintenance. We had any old wooden workbench with
drawers, steel cupboards and anything with a lock.
this is what I mean, excellent design and features. But they are tiny and cost way too much money. I would need 3 of them to just put in my basic tools in the 36" box I have.
Dave455
Well-known member
I think a lot of those smaller euro boxes, especially the ones on wheels, are more of a replacement for a tool trolley, than somewhere to store all your tools.I bought a Gedore Adjutant (see library photo) from a Rolls aero engine builder. RR gave them all these and found out they were too small to be of use. Then supplied them with Bott, and allowed them to keep the Gedores.
I liked the 'mad as a box of frogs' design and bought it.
Guess what?
Too small to be of use!
In the UK, garage mechanics all go Snap on.
I was in industry, steel, engineering maintenance. We had any old wooden workbench with
drawers, steel cupboards and anything with a lock.
I don’t think you can go far wrong with Bott. I work with a lot of folks in the engineering world, and Bott are undoubtedly the most popular option for new fits now.
Orangina
Well-known member
Hello everyone,
from HAZET Germany since the 1950s:
(used in my hobby garage)
HAZET 100 large tool cabinet (there was a 110 as smaller one)
with up to 140 tools (completed 80 kg or 180 lbs) - this one is from around 1970-1976
1955 Hazet (HELKA Favorit) for VW workshops, 1967-1976 HAZET Assistent 166 TS, the first version 1954 Hazet Assistent 160
(the load capacity of newer versions is specified as 300 kg static or 150 kg dynamic)
or as new HAZET Assistent 179 NW (much bigger and up to 1000 kg or 2200 lbs)
(used at the job)
and there other tool carts and cabinets from Stahlwille, Gedore, etc...
regards from Europe, Germany
from HAZET Germany since the 1950s:
(used in my hobby garage)
HAZET 100 large tool cabinet (there was a 110 as smaller one)
with up to 140 tools (completed 80 kg or 180 lbs) - this one is from around 1970-1976
1955 Hazet (HELKA Favorit) for VW workshops, 1967-1976 HAZET Assistent 166 TS, the first version 1954 Hazet Assistent 160
(the load capacity of newer versions is specified as 300 kg static or 150 kg dynamic)
or as new HAZET Assistent 179 NW (much bigger and up to 1000 kg or 2200 lbs)
(used at the job)
and there other tool carts and cabinets from Stahlwille, Gedore, etc...
regards from Europe, Germany
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esben57
Well-known member
I had been trying to get hold of the Dalek model. Even dafter.The drawers of these Gedores only open just over half way, you have to have the above drawers sent out of the other side. Any more than four spanners and it's full.
Side drawer is deep enough to keep power tools. With all the covers up and side drawer back in, it's a fight to open the thing back up.
Crowbar comes in handy.
May get rid and get something on the used market of a decent size.
Snap on is very rare and unheard of in my part of Europe (Slovenia).
As it was said, it's the business you work for that supplies the tools. And most are German - Gedore and Hazet, by far most common is our own brand Unior, and you can also find lots of USAG and Beta. Garant is also common, it's a German brand that rebrands top notch tools like Stahlwille wrenches and socketry tools and PB Swiss screwdrivers etc...
Unior makes decent toolcarts. Beta is famous for them too - the Beta Tank... I have a couple of the Hazet Assistants as well. My main tool cart with drawers is a Beta.
But it seems to me fixed cabinets are a lot more common in this area. If you go to a well equipped garage here, you're most likely to find a very solid welded steel table with some drawers and cabinets for storing tools. Toolcarts are found in service shops where you roll between car lifts of course, but if you don't need that then you can usually get a much higher quality fixed cabinet or table with drawers.
As it was said, it's the business you work for that supplies the tools. And most are German - Gedore and Hazet, by far most common is our own brand Unior, and you can also find lots of USAG and Beta. Garant is also common, it's a German brand that rebrands top notch tools like Stahlwille wrenches and socketry tools and PB Swiss screwdrivers etc...
Unior makes decent toolcarts. Beta is famous for them too - the Beta Tank... I have a couple of the Hazet Assistants as well. My main tool cart with drawers is a Beta.
But it seems to me fixed cabinets are a lot more common in this area. If you go to a well equipped garage here, you're most likely to find a very solid welded steel table with some drawers and cabinets for storing tools. Toolcarts are found in service shops where you roll between car lifts of course, but if you don't need that then you can usually get a much higher quality fixed cabinet or table with drawers.
driftpin
Well-known member
The French have exterior brackets for wine bottles and fromage.
The British use too-many fasteners to hold a rack for a bottle of stout, or Orkney Islands liquors
The Italians paint everything red, and have lightening holes in their shelf brackets. There are also trestles for the vines to climb.
The Germans have a buxom blonde carrying steins from their remote refrigeration system to the guy's toolchest.
The British use too-many fasteners to hold a rack for a bottle of stout, or Orkney Islands liquors
The Italians paint everything red, and have lightening holes in their shelf brackets. There are also trestles for the vines to climb.
The Germans have a buxom blonde carrying steins from their remote refrigeration system to the guy's toolchest.
Kasal
Well-known member
In this part of Europe, (Spain). All tools are provided by the workshop. The mechanics will receive a salary at the end of the month (they do not charge by the hour). In official workshops I usually see Stahlwille, Facom, Beta,... In Tractor and Truck workshops (official workshops) you can see a lot of King Tony. Lots of "Chinese" tool brands can be found in multi-brand workshops. One of these boxes loaded with tools can cost the same as an empty top-brand box. On this side of the world we don't have much of a culture for tools.
Dave455
Well-known member
That “Dalek” box (good description) is strange! I’ve never seen one.
The drawers of these Gedores only open just over half way, you have to have the above drawers sent out of the other side. Any more than four spanners and it's full.
Side drawer is deep enough to keep power tools. With all the covers up and side drawer back in, it's a fight to open the thing back up.
Crowbar comes in handy.
May get rid and get something on the used market of a decent size.
Gedore have made some odd boxes over the years. There’s one where the entire box drops down into a casing to lock. I quite like that one!
How exactly does that work? Does the shop provide a full box of tools to each tech or is there a shared tool crib. What happens when tools go missing for whatever reasons. Do techs have to wait if another tech has the tool they need. Do the shops provide top tier tools or the cheapest they can find. Just curious.
2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
My understanding is that 1: hand tools like sockets/wrenches are on the techs 2: They're paid hourly so the shop being inefficient does not penalize their pay.
ricleh
Well-known member
Depends on where you work at, there might be toolcarts at every "work station" and orobably the special tools shared by everyone. Or at smaller mechanics all the tools are shared.
If tools go missing eventually you start looking for who took them. Considering how there's typically not a whole lot of mechanics employed, you can definitely keep an eye on these things (at least in my country it seems so).
And regarding tool quality it also depends. If it's a private owner it can be the cheap stuff too. Most commonly the business finds some supplier that gets you everything. People who resell Hoffmann Group stuff are most common here, and through them you can get a whole set of their top end Garant tools or their mid range Holex tools, or actual OEM brands too like PBSwiss, Stahlwille, Knipex... Alternatively there's dealers that sell Gedore, USAG, Beta, Unior, Bahco, Wurth, Hazet...
Usually you see the full set of tools from one of those manufacturers. Cause the employer won't want to loose time searching for individual tools and will instead perfer to just order everything together.
Odd-job
Well-known member
Imagine it must be nice not to need SAE taking up space in one's tool cart... Am conveniently in Europe right now and always seem to go through some culture shock taking a look at people's garages and the way they live. What many in the US would consider spartan / minimalism is more the norm. Small(er) residential garages don't hold much other than a small car, a snow shovel, and a leaf blower. Haven't seen any single residential 4 car garages, triple bay tool boxes, or 3/4+ pickups at all. Guessing this translates over to tool buying and therefore tool boxes to a certain extent.
Where are all the Hazet Assistents though?!?
Where are all the Hazet Assistents though?!?
Kasal
Well-known member
The workshop provides a trolley with an endowment of basic tools: screwdrivers, wrenches, set of pliers.... If a tool is lost or broken, it will be replaced by the workshop. The "special" tools, extractors, ball joint press... will be shared by all mechanics. If someone has the tool that he needs, he can help his partner to finish before and be able to use said tool. An official workshop will offer recognized Facom Beta Wurth brands. But in the smaller workshops you can find cheap tools.
Kasal
Well-known member
Salaries in Spain are fixed, you know what you are going to earn per month. The normal working day is 8 hours a day (40 hours a week) and 5 days a week from Monday to Friday. I think that as a curious fact for you, you would like to know that by law the worker is entitled to one month of vacation per year, which will be charged as if he had worked.
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
Would be a huge issue for me though, as I don't speak Spanish.
How long has the 1 month policy been in place? Does it seem sustainable long term?
EDIT: commission/flat rate/piece work is always a double edged sword. I make way, way, more than anyone would pay hourly.
This was from the maintenance shop of a factory I visited in the Netherlands several years ago. Worked with one of the guys from there adjusting some test fixtures, all I remember was that the drawers slid very smooth but not sure if that was top or bottom box.
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Kasal
Well-known member
This was approved at the end of the 30s. At the moment it seems sustainable. I agree that a worker would earn much more by charging by the hour, but this is the Spanish system. If you suffer a work accident you will have the right to continue receiving (75% of your salary) until you can return to work, also if you become unemployed you will have the right to a pension (during the first 180 days it will be 70% of the regulatory base, from day 181 it will be 60% of said base) this will be a function of the salary that you have received. You are entitled to a maximum of 2 years (720 days) but before that you need to have worked 6 years (2160 days).
Interesting design, there was a USA manufacturer that was called Thermos, they made Thermos' and coolers and lunch boxes along with many other things their cooler line was metal as were the Thermos bottles originally and the lunch boxes for both adults and themed ones for schoolkids...In the late 70's they transitioned to plastic for 90% of their product line and made a plastic dinnerware that I beileve was called Pyrex-WareI can answer for the U.K.
Snap On and Mac are available here. Snap On are quite popular, but prices on new boxes are fairly stiff at the mo. Used prices are often reasonable though. I have two used top chests in store that were such a good price I couldn’t turn them down!
Mac have quite a following, perhaps more so for their boxes than their tools. Matco are non existent.
There are a fair number of older boxes out there. Classic Britool ones were actually made by Langenau. They are very high quality, but people are realising that so they are in demand.
If you go down the industrial storage route then there’s a huge choice of cabinet style, width, height, colour etc etc. Everybody I know who’s bought a new box over the last couple of years has gone this route. These Bott boxes are excellent quality, domestically made, and a fraction of the price of say Snap On.
In the U.K. we also have Sealey. To an extent they are the “U.S. General” of the U.K. as everything is imported, but quality is o.k, and you get a lot of storage for the money. Some of the designs are very nice.
At some point in their Heritage from the 1900s they changed their name to King Seeley Thermos and of course like most US manufacturing they moved overseas,
The resemblance especially the side handles are very similar as with the shapes.
I believe my spelling of Seeley is correct but's it's been a long time since I have seen the label
Dave455
Well-known member
Thermos was a German company originally.
They sold the rights to their Vacuum flasks to three separate companies in the U.K, U.S. and Canada, all of which produced vacuum flasks, but all of which were completely independent, hence the differences in the products.
Thermos U.K. are still very active - don’t know where their products are made.
Sealey (different spelling) is a tool importer and distributor in the U.K. Founded by Jack Sealey, they are probably one of the bigger garage equipment distributors in the U.K. Most of their wares are generic stuff, but some items are unique, such as these boxes.
They’re a good firm to deal with. My Dad bought me a small hydraulic jack about 30 years back, but the seals failed. I contacted Sealey and was sent a set by return!
I think any similarities in design are most likely due to adopting the styling of a particular period!
Dave455
Well-known member
That’s the one I was thinking of!
Dave455
Well-known member
The leave situation is similar in the U.K. Has been for decades.
If you work a 5 day week you are entitled to 28 days paid leave, but this includes the 8 public holidays, so in practice it’s 4 weeks.
Many firms offer an increment, so you can easily find yourself with 6 weeks holiday!
Dave455
Well-known member
Alternatively, you could find yourself in the U.K, needing Metric, SAE AND Whitworth!
In a lot of Europe, it’s more common to rent property, so things like garages tend to be more standardised!
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2ndGearRubber
Well-known member
I have 3 weeks now, after working for 7 years where I'm at. After 1 year, Jan 1st to Jan 1st, you get 1 week. 4 years or so you get 2 weeks.
I'd say I probably get a week of paid days off. Thanksgiving, July 4th, etc.
That's a nice system to give people time off.