What do I need to know about Pex? Water main

[Xkylescorex]

I have a leaking water main somewhere between my meter and my house. Looks like I'll be digging a trench this weekend and running a new line with Pex. Ive never done any plumbing much less use pex but Ive been watching a lot of videos and it seems the hard part is the digging everything out. What do I need to know about Pex? It seems like there are a bunch of different ways to attach fittings. Which would be best for the application Im using? My idea is buy 100' of 3/4 at home depot. Im not sure what comes off the meter as far as connections yet . But Im paying a guy to come out and trench my yard this weekend as I have no desire to spend all day digging. How would you guys do it?

 

[kd3pc]

not sure why you can not find the leak and buy a couple of shark bite's and 10' of PEX if needed. Should not take you more than a few hours to locate it and repair it.

This way will cost $100 or so....your way is likely at least 4 figures.

 

[acer66]

I have a leaking water main somewhere between my meter and my house. Looks like I'll be digging a trench this weekend and running a new line with Pex. Ive never done any plumbing much less use pex but Ive been watching a lot of videos and it seems the hard part is the digging everything out. What do I need to know about Pex? It seems like there are a bunch of different ways to attach fittings. Which would be best for the application Im using? My idea is buy 100' of 3/4 at home depot. Im not sure what comes off the meter as far as connections yet . But Im paying a guy to come out and trench my yard this weekend as I have no desire to spend all day digging. How would you guys do it?

If your old line is not pex already you might need to run pvc or cooper from the water meter to your in house pressure regulator.

Edit: Here you can not have pex before the pressure regulator.

 

[Xkylescorex]

not sure why you can not find the leak and buy a couple of shark bite's and 10' of PEX if needed. Should not take you more than a few hours to locate it and repair it.

This way will cost $100 or so....your way is likely at least 4 figures.

My house was built in tge 50s. Everything Ive read says that if you fix one leak another is bound to spring up soon. The idea is to go ahead and replace the whole thing. Ive priced pex and fittings at $200 and paying someone to dig my 18' x 60' trench at $300. Plus a saturdays of my time backfilling and putting the connections on.

 

[sixty4]

How are you going to shut off at curb box is the first thing that comes to mind?

 

[Xkylescorex]

How are you going to shut off at curb box is the first thing that comes to mind?

Turn the shut off at the meter with a wrench. Ive done it before.

 

[acer66]

How are you going to shut off at curb box is the first thing that comes to mind?

Buy the tool or use a crescent wrench?

Edit, OP beat me to it.

 

[onewheat]

How are you going to shut off at curb box is the first thing that comes to mind?

Twist the valve - I do it every time I leave my lake house. I don't even need a wrench.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Ok I guess to get back on track I should be asking what kind of fitting securing system is the best? Just the shark bit crimp system they have at home depot? I know there are a few different ones. I just dont want to have to dug it up in a few years to do it again.

 

[acer66]

Ok I guess to get back on track I should be asking what kind of fitting securing system is the best? Just the shark bit crimp system they have at home depot? I know there are a few different ones. I just dont want to have to dug it up in a few years to do it again.

I did a supply line from the meter with regular pex, before I knew about the codes here,
and no problems and besides that I use pex for years now and yet have to have a problem.
The only issue I ever had was when I installed it wrong but that was also just when I started using pex.

Shark bite also work great but I never used them underground,
guess the big advantage is that you need no tool but the fittings are expensive.

If you plan to do more plumbing I would get the crimp tool and use regular connectors but if that is most likely your only plumbing project you might want to use shark bite but I never seen any threaded shark bite connectors but I also never looked.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Thanks acer66 looks like we are both in north carolina. I will look up code today. My next door neighbor recently ran pex for his main line and raved about it. He did his himself as well which gave me the courage to try this. Im hoping code doesnt throw me a curve ball. I recently had the utilities marked and the water line crosses my gas line. Is that normal? Do you run water above or below the gas line? There is no way to go around it. I guess I need to dig the gas line with a small shovel and trowel very carefully to uncover it where they cross. Thats really the only thing that concerns me with the project so far

 

[OldToolz]

Supposed to use pvc from meter to house ...

 

[acer66]

I am in Buncombe county and I just plumbed the whole water lines in my fixer upper and they do not let me run pex straight from the well head, they want pvc.

Depending how old your house is your utilities the supply lines can be all over the place.
The house I did the pex from meter to house run was build in the 40's and there were a few water(?) and electrical lines I had no clue where the came from or where they go to.

Besides when we had our lines marked they marked wrong/old lines fortunately I knew where the relevant ones where anyway.

I rented one of those trench digging machines and that made it quite easy.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Looks like the guys are going to hand dig the trench so im hoping they wont hit any lines. Why would code ask for pvc over pex? Cost should be about the same . Im going to the plumbing supply today and will ask for some advice on code. Not sure what the current line is now but most of my internal plumbing is galvanized and has failed and been replaced bit by bit with pex all through the house. The galvanized *****

 

[strutaeng]

It seems like you have a good handle on the project. If they allowed your neighbor to use PEX, then you should be okay.The codes list approved materials, and it is up to you to select the type. Frankly, I would prefer a continuous (PEX) line over segmented line (Copper, CPVC, etc.)

You are doing the right thing if your existing system is galvanized.

As to the gas line intersecting, one line is lower than the other, so there should not be any issue. Keep it the way it is.

The sharkbite fittings have get a bad rap with pro plumbers, presumably because of the life of the EPDM washer that does the sealing. I think the issue is that DIY don't debur the copper and then this causes problems. I think they are okay. The other thing is that they are very costly. The other common fittings for pex are the crimp and cinch type. I have used the crimp with very good success when I replumbed my house (from copper.)

Ask about what fittings they recommend at your supply house.

One important thing to know is that the I.D. of Pex is smaller than that of most other materials, so if your main line was 3/4", consider upsizing to 1". The cost difference is marginal. For modern low flow plumbing fixtures this is not an issue, but if you are filling a pool, for example, it may matter.

Good Luck.

 

[Dagny]

Around here 160 pound black poly pipe is king last forever, tough as nails,however our lines are 9 or 10 feet deep so they dont freeze and we have a lot of rocks.

 

[Bopbop]

Let me add a few comments on the PEX piping system. Based on the International Plumbing Code PEX is an approved piping system. However there are some things to keep in mind and these are from the IPC. Any exterior underground piping shall have a pressure rating not less than 160 PSI at 73.4 degree F. check the pressure rating on the piping you purchase. The piping shall be at least 6 inches below the frost line. Make sure the backfill does not have rocks, etc that will damage the pipe.
I have used the Sharkbite fittings but I would recommend the crimp fittings. Home depot sales the tool and they rent. It is a better fitting that was designed by the piping industry for the system.
I would also recommend using a 1" service. 3/4" PEX flow 5 gpm has a pressure loss of 4 to 5 PSI per 100 feet.
Also keep in mind that the Authority Having Jurisdiction (AHJ) has the final say so on what materials are approved. They have the knowledge on what will work and survive in your area.
I am a plumbing designer for commercial buildings and I have done designs all over America and around the world. What works in south Georgia may not work in central Florida.

 

[555]

We replaced our Arkansas house main line with Pex. It was a 120 foot run and we had to go 36" deep due to local code. Pex was highly recommended by the city utility manager. I then plumbed the entire house in Pex and found it easy. Sharkbites are not allowed in our city, you must use the crimped connections.
Regards,
John

 

[prostreetamx]

I used 1" Pex to replace my main line. My house was one of those covered by a class action suit where they replaced all the supply lines inside the house with Pex. They did not replace the main supply line at all and all of my neighbors have also had issues with leaks in the main supply with various fixes. After digging for hours and not finding the leak, I chose to abandon it and just replace it from the meter to the first connection in the garage. They buried the original line with the sewer and I assume from what I found while digging that there probably is a 90 fitting based on the route and the original class action was about defective fittings. My new line has no fittings underground except for the first one at the meter which is easily accessed and crimped. I did not use Sharkbites on 1" pipe. My run was only 50' and my neighbors have hired "plumbers" that have spliced PVC or Pex inline but only did partial fixes. At least one guy has had his "fixed" twice so far. The crimp tool was only $100 at the time and I ended uo useing it for my new garage build with a full bath.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Well got the water main dug up. Its a metal pipe coming from the meter but sonewhere about 6 feet out it becomes a newer pvc type pipe, so its been patched before. The guys who dug my trench called and said "we found your leak" and then sent me a picture of the busted pvc pipe they obviously hit with the shovel. It was totally severed and would never carry water to the house. Then they kindly offered to go get a shark bite patch and fix it for $120. Lol I told them no thanks. When I got home I spent $14 for some cement , primer and a sliding pvc patch tie in thingamajig and 30 minutes later I had water again. Of course after turning water off at the house it appears the leak is still somewhere in the yard and that wasnt the original leak lol. The guys also offered to run the line for me for $500 plus materials but the hard part which is digging the trench was already done. I feel a little bad because they showed up with a crew of 4 guys and I paid them $250 for a day of digging. No way they made any money.

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

Great info guys!

When I bought my house 5 years ago (house from 1969) it had a water leak in the supply line. I was in a hurry and hired a plumbing company which didn't bother to locate the leak, they just installed a new line (and didn't removed the old line). It's black pipe and it doesn't look like PEX, I guess it's HDPE (high-density polyethylene pipe). It enters the house through a basement wall and it's positioned about a foot or two higher then the old line. I asked them about that and they said that new material is safer against pipe freeze/burst.

I have interest in this discussion because I plan to install a water hydrant outside the house, so when the time comes I need to decide between PEX or HDPE.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

My son-in-law is a licensed plumber. Asked him. PEX is OK for in the house water lines, for the main line use 1" copper, "L" grade. here in So Cal PVC is a no-no for main line. My main is PPP pipe, original to the house and so far so good. Changes to 1" copper before coming out of the ground to the main gate (ball) valve. Here is a thought, if you can get to where the main line comes into the house (like an attached garage), Install another a secondary gate (ball) valve. You can shut off the water to the house when you want to and the yard still has water.

 

[acer66]

Great info guys!

When I bought my house 5 years ago (house from 1969) it had a water leak in the supply line. I was in a hurry and hired a plumbing company which didn't bother to locate the leak, they just installed a new line (and didn't removed the old line). It's black pipe and it doesn't look like PEX, I guess it's HDPE (high-density polyethylene pipe). It enters the house through a basement wall and it's positioned about a foot or two higher then the old line. I asked them about that and they said that new material is safer against pipe freeze/burst.

I have interest in this discussion because I plan to install a water hydrant outside the house, so when the time comes I need to decide between PEX or HDPE.

As long as you are under the frost line and the required minimum depth you should be fine but I am not sure why it would be better against pipe freezing, maybe by a very minor amount because it is plastic vs metal?

 

[acer66]

My son-in-law is a licensed plumber. Asked him. PEX is OK for in the house water lines, for the main line use 1" copper, "L" grade. here in So Cal PVC is a no-no for main line. My main is PPP pipe, original to the house and so far so good. Changes to 1" copper before coming out of the ground to the main gate (ball) valve. Here is a thought, if you can get to where the main line comes into the house (like an attached garage), Install another a secondary gate (ball) valve. You can shut off the water to the house when you want to and the yard still has water.

Do you know why no pvc as a main line?

 

[roc_on_the_rocks]

As long as you are under the frost line and the required minimum depth you should be fine but I am not sure why it would be better against pipe freezing, maybe by a very minor amount because it is plastic vs metal?

Thanks acer66. I highly suspect the original line was PVC, that's what I see entering the basement wall.

 

[Xkylescorex]

I have my meter dug up. Looks like a metal 3/4 fitting. The plumbing supply guy said any fitting on the meter has to stay there. Im guessing I just need a 3/4 female connector to thread onto the meter? Im not familiar with plumbing fittings .what do you guys think?

 

[Xkylescorex]

 

[flopdrop]

I did mine in 1" Pex from Water Meter to Clubhouse 737 feet. I used (T Series fittings) from A.Y. McDonald Mfg. Co. Most common used by all our city and Rural Water Supply Companies. Bought mine at a local Imco Supply Company. I was scared because I had to pay cash with a no Return Policy. They were not cheap. If I remember around $35 dollars a piece and I also had to buy 2 stainless steel inserts which slide inside the pex at $6 a pop. Total just over $100 dollars. I was lucky I could buy a 500 ft. roll of pex are the fittings would have cost just as much as the pipe.
McDonald has an informative website. Click on Resources (FAQ) or call 1-800#.

Hope this helps.

 

[Sawdustmaker]

Do you know why no pvc as a main line?

I spoke with my son-in-law today. Apparently here in SoCal PVC is now legal for a 1" main line. Schedule 40 is permissible (minimum code) Sch 80 is better. My son-in-law said if he was doing his main line he would use 1" copper, "K" grade (thick wall, industrial). He did say he wouldn't use PVC.

 

[bigdav160]

Wouldn't copper have to epoxy coated for underground use? That's not something the BORG keeps in stock around here.

My current house has had the original galvanized pipe replaced with PCV. My other house (built in the '80's) still has it's galvanized main even though though I had to replace all the piping in the house due to corrosion/leaks/clogs. So yes, I'm waiting on the main to start leaking.

Are the PEX retainers stainless? No trouble underground? PEX is something not seen in my area until just 10 years ago.

 

[theundermount]

K type copper is code here in Ontario doesn't need to be epoxy coated. Pvc can be used but has to be potable grade. Make sure you run a tracer wire along with the line so you can locate it in the future, also around here hydro grounds the home to the copper water service so running pvc or pex you may need to run a grounding bar for your home to be grounded

 

[theundermount]

That's a flared fitting at a glance it almost looks like a 1/2 lead service line you have there

 

[Barnabas]

Working on my main line too. 1" poly pipe, which is not PVC. Poly pipe is the same folks use for underground sprinkler systems.

 

[Barnabas]

How are you going to shut off at curb box is the first thing that comes to mind?

This was asked because in some states (usually colder) the water meter is inside the house.

Other states, including my North Carolina, the meter is underground at the street with a flush-to-ground-level access door. The valve can be turned with a special tool or a large adjustable wrench. The home owner owns the water system after the meter.

 

[reader2580]

My previous house built in 2001 the main line was 1" copper tubing not coated. My current house built in 1980 has the black plastic pipe out to the well.

 

[Xkylescorex]

Well took another day to dig under a sidewalk but I have everything dug out. Now my problem is the fittings. I had decided to go with the 3/4 pex but after looking at the meter it looks like I have a 1 1/4 female compression fitting coming off the meter. The largest fitting at home depot is 1". Will I need to stay with a compression fitting or will I just hook up a 1 1/4 female coupling and run it into the house. Looks like 1/2 metal pipe runs into the yard about 10 feet and somehwere out there its spliced into a grey pvc pipe. Im going to make a run to the plumbing supply tomorrow. Here is a pic of 1 1/4 fitting. Pex supply doesnt even have a 1 1/4 fitting.

 

[youwish2bme]

PEX is routinely used under ground in North Carolina.

HITCH

 

[The Cobbler]

that looks like a flared coupling nut used for underground connections

 

[Bob275]

Well took another day to dig under a sidewalk but I have everything dug out. Now my problem is the fittings. I had decided to go with the 3/4 pex but after looking at the meter it looks like I have a 1 1/4 female compression fitting coming off the meter. The largest fitting at home depot is 1". Will I need to stay with a compression fitting or will I just hook up a 1 1/4 female coupling and run it into the house. Looks like 1/2 metal pipe runs into the yard about 10 feet and somehwere out there its spliced into a grey pvc pipe. Im going to make a run to the plumbing supply tomorrow. Here is a pic of 1 1/4 fitting. Pex supply doesnt even have a 1 1/4 fitting.

That looks like flared copper, possible 3/4" if it's in good shape cut it at a clean spot and get a union to attach to the plastic. That's not just a normal fitting you can get at home depot. If it was my house I would run all new type k copper or at least the blue 200psi PE pipe. You can also check with your water utility, they may sell you the fittings needed.

 

[Xkylescorex]

I had a plumber tell me to put a sharkbite on the copper underground and just run a new line off of that. What do you think? Sounds too easy. Ive soldered electrical connections but not copper pipe. Is it easy? Just cut the pipe abd solder a new pex connector on it? I havent priced copper line but I dont want to get in too far over my head with price or have to make a lot of joints that will leak.