What do you guys use for oscilloscopes?

[edcantu9]

I am wanting to get into oscilloscopes for auto diagnosis what are some good affordable oscilloscopes out there for a beginner?

I know its a great skill to have, so I just want something to start off with and see if I can get into it and really understand it before I dive into something more expensive and better.

What are things I should look for?

I know there are handheld units and ones that need a laptop to function. I believe the laptop to function ones are cheaper due to them needing a laptop.

I don't mind using one of those if it means the price will come down.

Thanks all for the advice.

 

[LS6 Tommy]

Last time I used one it looked like this:



Tommy

 

[takotruckin]

AES uScope

https://www.aeswave.com/uScope-Master-Kit-1-channel-automotive-scope-p9273.html

/thread

 

[kwschumm]

I use a Tek.

 

[edcantu9]

awesome. what things has it helped you guys diagnose quicker because of it?

 

[sberry]

I wouldn't know how to use it.

 

[takotruckin]

I'm a tech so I work on cars all day every day. I use my scope to diagnose everything from computer problems, fuel pumps and sensors to mechanical problems like timing chains and belts and worn cam lobes.

 

[theoldwizard1]

The Automotive picoScope IS the "gold standard". Having said that, I will repeat what I have said before. It is INCREDIBLY OVER PRICED ! The accessories are even MORE INCREDIBLY OVER PRICED.

It has many nice features for auto tech/non-EEs to make it easier to work with, but in the end it is "slow" (probably adequate for anything automotive) for a digital oscilloscope.

To use ANY oscilloscope to diagnosis any electrical problem on a car requires a VERY GOOD UNDERSTANDING OF BASIC ELECTRICAL CIRCUITS. Once you are proficient, any oscilloscope will work.

If LabNation (makers of SmartScope) got their **** together and made a few hardware improvements (including a true 4 channel version) and some software enhancements, they would KILL picoScope.


On YouTube, watch South Main Auto and motoYam82. These guys know their stuff and show it. The basic 12V test light is still their most used tool.

 

[isb cornbinder]

http://www.interworldna.com/pico/pi...yr3oCP1TQ_WfoQngeFQLKQtZgUY-1Kw-5QaAi3A8P8HAQ
Next comes training and hands on with a mentor.
I was given Sun, Marquette, Snap-On, Allen and several others. I passed on this obsolete stuff to anyone who thought they could use it.
This obsolete stuff takes up space and is not likely to work on a modern vehicle.
I am retired now. I worked on Cummins and Detroit Diesel. The company supplied the appropriate test and diagnostic scanners for each engine manufacturer. These scanners are expensive. It is the "cards" or software that is going to kill your budget.
We had Kent Moore for GM and Insite for Cummins.

 

[jkeyser14]

Saleae Logic Analyzer.

 

[Schurkey]

Started with Sun 1010 or 1015--I don't remember which.
Worked at a place that had the hugely-expensive Sun 2001 "computerized" 'scope, also early in my career.
Then to a place with ancient Allen 'scopes.

They all worked just fine for finding dead cylinders, weak cylinders, fouled plugs, weak coils, cooked plug wires, carb mis-adjustment, and so many other things.

The Snap-On guy let us try a Counselor. I thought it was way cool, and I didn't know how to use most of the built-in diagnostic tests.

When it was my money, I bought a Snap-On Counselor II machine from eBay with the add-on 4-gas exhaust analyzer.

Latest purchase is an obsolete Matco (OTC) two-channel handheld. Does some of what the Counselor does, but infinitely more portable. Has some built-in specs and programmed tests, vehicle software good to 2006. The computer-interface software won't run on anything newer than XP or maybe Win 7, 'cause it's a dead-end on Win 8.1. I emailed OTC, and they politely said they knew it wouldn't work on newer Windows, thanks for contacting them. NO help at all.

While there is NOTHING like a 'Scope for diagnosing ignition issues with automotive engines, they're surprisingly useful for diagnosing electric motors--like in-tank fuel pumps, and the HVAC blower-fan motor; both of which are likely to be buried inside the car somwhere so they're difficult and expensive to replace...and you'd really prefer to not replace them if you don't have REAL EVIDENCE that they're faulty.


http://www.ebay.com/gds/Snap-On-Counselor-oscilloscopes-A-Primer-/10000000001691487/g.html

 

[jubilee]

Hantec 1008
Run with laptop
8 channels
Less than $100 on eBay
Works for me

 

[edcantu9]

Hantec 1008
Run with laptop
8 channels
Less than $100 on eBay
Works for me

Is this one ready to test out of the box with a laptop or do I need to purchase other things to use it?

 

[GTA Matt]

Find a used vantage pro on ebay. Probably get one for $500 or less. May even find an older used verus or modis for relatively cheap. Sell it for the same amount when you upgrade. As far as laptop based, if you're going to spend the money, get a 4 channel pico.

 

[isb cornbinder]

https://vancouver.craigslist.ca/rds/tls/6090077646.html
Try something like this.

 

[theoldwizard1]

My biggest ***** about 'scope is advertising.

The "bandwidth" (50MHz, 70MHz, 100MHz, etc.) has very little to do with actually CAPTURING a intermittent event. The "front end" may pass it on, but the "digitizer" (ADC) may miss it completely if it is not reoccurring. To have a good chance at capturing and intermittent 100MHz event, you need to be sampling at >1GSa/S

That is not difficult, but there is typically only 1 ADC inside these things so the sample rate is cut by the number of channels, so you may only have 250MSa/S which should be adequate for a 25MHz signal.

Almost all of these low end 'scope only use an 8 bit ADC, so you are only getting 1 out of 256 accuracy. 10 or 12 bits would be much better.

Last is buffer depth. More is always better and the cost of memory is so cheap I don't know why they are so skimpy with it.

 

[jubilee]

Is this one ready to test out of the box with a laptop or do I need to purchase other things to use it?

Comes with everything you need to get started. I just googled it at $79.80. It's a 12 bit device.

 

[Musicinabottle]

I use a Tek.

Nothing inexpensive about a Tektronics. Nothing.

 

[ddawg16]

My biggest ***** about 'scope advertising.

The "bandwidth" (50MHz, 70MHz, 100MHz, etc.) has very little to do with actually CAPTURING a intermittent event. The "front end" may pass it on, but the "digitizer" (ADC) may miss it completely if it is not reoccurring. To have a good chance at capturing and intermittent 100MHz event, you need to be sampling at >1GSa/S

That is not difficult, but there is typically only 1 ADC inside these things so the sample rate is cut by the number of channels, so you may only have 250MSa/S which should be adequate for a 25MHz signal.

Almost all of these low end 'scope only use an 8 bit ADC, so you are only getting 1 out of 256 accuracy. 10 or 12 bits would be much better.

Last is buffer depth. More is always better and the cost of memory is so cheap I don't know why they are so skimpy with it.

Aliasing.....

^^that is experience talking^^

I still have an old HP 100 Khz single channel scope (1200C?).....weights 50 lbs...takes 10 min to warm up....but the ***** still works. Well....it did 10 years ago the last time I plugged it in....

 

[ddawg16]

But that SmartScope is a bit too rich for my wallet.

Any cheaper USB types?

 

[edcantu9]

Comes with everything you need to get started. I just googled it at $79.80. It's a 12 bit device.

Nice! Thanks for the information! Decent price to get into it as well.

 

[theoldwizard1]

I still have an old HP 100 Khz single channel scope (1200C?).....weights 50 lbs...takes 10 min to warm up....but the ***** still works. Well....it did 10 years ago the last time I plugged it in....

At my first job, they had an old Tek 555 (all tubes) sitting in the corner. Nor sure why ir was not scraped. It probably weighed close to 100 lbs and took more like 30 minutes to warm up (old timers said, they would turn on the lights, turn of the 'scope and THEN make coffee).

If you were brave (stupid) you could keep your coffee warm by putting it on top. Of course one drop of coffee through the screening and it would have been extremely EXCITING !

 

[Charlie51]

Hmmm...I usually just plug in the code reader, get the codes and go from there. I haven't in all these years ever had to use an oscilloscope on a car.

 

[jkeyser14]

But that SmartScope is a bit too rich for my wallet.

Any cheaper USB types?

Saleae Logic Analyzer

 

[wagzilla]

I'm a tech so I work on cars all day every day. I use my scope to diagnose everything from computer problems, fuel pumps and sensors to mechanical problems like timing chains and belts and worn cam lobes.

nice

when the scanner says a part is bad I proof out the bad parts with the scope.

James

 

[theoldwizard1]

But that SmartScope is a bit too rich for my wallet.

Any cheaper USB types?

There are a lot of cheap (<$50) on eBay !

Many are kits
Many don't have any housing
Many don't even have BNC connector let alone probes
Many don't have any storage
Many have no electronic range (volts/division) selection


This make the cheapest ones nothing more than a μProcessor with a AtoD so technically they are "data acquisition" system with oscilloscope display software.

In the $50-$100 range you tend to get at least a housing and BNC connectors. Ethernet give better noise immunity and isolation (assuming you are not power the device from your PC).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Another hobbyist based 'scope is Red Pitaya. The design team is Russian !

Cheaper than the SmartScope (base price) and a step up in performance (14 bit AtoD, 125MS/S) but the base model is REALLY BARE ! Add housing, SMA to BNC adapaters and enumerator, plus probes and you are over $400.

 

[493 scamp]

The old Sun machine scopes were sure nice for ignition patterns. We still work on a few show cars with carbs and plug wires. We have the Emisfire Scope kit from http://www.automotivetestsolutions.com/ also have an OTC lab scope (2 channel) that is pretty much useless. The small screen is the killer for me. I also hate the test leads that either fall apart or the clips are hard to use. The battery wont hold a charge and the power supply causes a ripple on the screen.
The Emisfire equipment with pressure transducers is much better but we need to upgrade to a large monitor instead of the old laptop screen. I have successfully used it to find jumped timing chains on VVT engines from the spark plug hole. It has the Escope 4 channel usb scope but I have not used it much beyond engine mechanical diagnosis. Where does one find good waveforms and info on set up basics for testing automotive circuits?

 

[GTA Matt]

Hmmm...I usually just plug in the code reader, get the codes and go from there. I haven't in all these years ever had to use an oscilloscope on a car.

What about cmp and ckp problems? Testing coils or injectors that are buried under an intake plenum, seeing if a shift solenoid that clicks when commanded on is actually opening, checking fuel pump condition on intermittent no starts? A few weeks ago I posted about doing a compression test and verifying jumped timing through the cigarette lighter outlet. There are tons of real world uses for a scope on a vehicle. I might not use mine every single day, but when I do use it, it saves so much time and gives absolute certainty on a diagnosis.

 

[jimindm]

An o scope is a great tool to have, but like any other tool it has its places and uses. You also have to have some electrical knowledge to use one.

If you are using it on vehicles, that would be a great informations system.

That is where the costs go up, you either need the information system, or you need the o scope to be automotive friendly. Giving you test points and known good patterns. Setting are very important. One setting is off, and you go from a good pattern, to one that looks like it is failing.

A scope is nice, but a graphing meter is pretty good for automotive work. As others have said look for a vantage, modis, or something that is a lot more user friendly.

Not saying you can not find known good wave forms on the WWW, but it is much easier if they are programmed into the tool you are using. Even an old one will be good enough to look at many sensors, that have really not changed over the years.

Which ever way you go, the adaptors are endless. You will find hundreds of different ones out there, and figure out which ones you like and use.

One thing that I am sure has not changed from when I was getting into it many years ago. Buy diagnostic tools that you can use and are very good at interpreting what it is telling you. Understand what you are looking for and what the tool is telling you.

I have seen many spend a lot of money on equipment that they just do not use, because they do not understand how to use it, or interpreting what they are looking at.

I have seen many great technicians use a simple test light for diagnosis purposes.

 

[NitroShark]

I use a PcoScope 4 channel. Never had any problems with it. Good tool.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Hmmm...I usually just plug in the code reader, get the codes and go from there. I haven't in all these years ever had to use an oscilloscope on a car.

Go to YouTube and watch motoYama82 (Ivan) 2 part video on repair of a crank, no start, no comm. While the 'scope he used did not get him to the root problem, it and some excellent diagnostic skills and some wiring diagrams were very necessary to solve the problem (chafed wire).

 

[theoldwizard1]

Saleae Logic Analyzer

1 analog channel @ 12MS/S ! Okay its $100, but you be lucky to capture anything faster 1 MHz !

 

[theoldwizard1]

I use a PcoScope 4 channel. Never had any problems with it. Good tool.

God tool, yes. Way over priced. A professional would have to use it probably more than 50 times a year to justify it.

 

[GTA Matt]

God tool, yes. Way over priced. A professional would have to use it probably more than 50 times a year to justify it.

50 might sound like a lot, but it's really only once a week. I'll have driveability type diag on 20-30 cars a week on average. At least 1 of those is getting some test leads attached between it and a scope.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk

 

[kd3pc]

Another hobbyist based 'scope is Red Pitaya. The design team is Russian !

Cheaper than the SmartScope (base price) and a step up in performance (14 bit AtoD, 125MS/S) but the base model is REALLY BARE ! Add housing, SMA to BNC adapaters and enumerator, plus probes and you are over $400.

My JYE is decent for about 80% of troubleshooting ...and the price is low

http://www.jyetech.com/Products/LcdScope/e094.php

from $39 (Kit, no case) to $200

 

[theoldwizard1]

The old Sun machine scopes were sure nice for ignition patterns. We still work on a few show cars with carbs and plug wires.

The old Sun, Allen, etc ignition 'scopes only work on spark ignited systems with a single coil where the secondary (output of the coil) can be clamped on to. Those pretty much all died by the late 80s/early 90s.

Today's coil on plug systems typically use a common power wire. You can obtain almost all the same information using any of the current 'scopes we have been talking by analysing the "flyback" (back image) primary voltages on this wire.

Just like the old Sun 'scopes, you still need to sync of of cylinder #1 so that you which spark event is which.

 

[engineer2]

The Bear analyzers have versatile scopes for ignition and low voltage stuff. Later ones added clips for distributorless ignition, but as said, without plug wires, all you can do is look at the primary or insert shorty plug wires.

 

[rcourtem]

I have several vintage scopes, but I am partial to the Allen DEA. Of course, I can't use it on COP vehicles, only standard and DIS ignition.

 

[tre873]

I have a Snap-On Vantage Pro that I used when I was a tech. Since I've changed careers, it hasn't been used very much. I would be willing to part with it if the price is right. If you are interested, shoot me a PM.

Mods, if this is in violation of forum rules, I apologize and feel free to delete this post.