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What do you think about back yard buddy lifts

Kirkz28

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Sudbury, Ontario, Canada
Ovilla nailed it perfectly. I hope the owner(s) of this site charge Backyard Buddy an advertising fee, cause that's about all they do in their posts.

All preferences aside, I think Jeff from Bend Pak sets a pretty good example of what we would hope to see on this site from ANY manufacturer - he actually answers questions, gives his competitors credit when credit is due, and is very approachable.
 
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bazzateer

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Does anyone know whether any 2 or 4 post lifts have actually collapsed? I don't mean due to poor installation or handling of it, I mean when the hydraulics have failed causing the lift to 'fall' to the ground. These are the only situations when the locks would be needed after all.
 

what2do

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Jan 11, 2010
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Kirk, Can you steer me to Jeff's posts regarding Bend Pak lifts? I am new here and can't find them :headscrat
 

Kirkz28

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What2do - Jeff posts under the username JSK, he's actually in this thread on the first page.

If you do a search under Jeff's username, you'll find a ton of threads to choose from.
 

ovilla

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Plainfield, IL
Does anyone know whether any 2 or 4 post lifts have actually collapsed? I don't mean due to poor installation or handling of it, I mean when the hydraulics have failed causing the lift to 'fall' to the ground. These are the only situations when the locks would be needed after all.


These failures are not common. However, MFG's are well aware of the potential risks and as such have now been creating safer lifts that incorporate secondary safety locks. Just like auto MFG's make cars with more and more air bags and crumble zones and numerous other saftey improvements (which are only needed for crashes). With regards to BYB lifts, many have asked them as to why they don't incorporate this secondary safety feature, which adds an additional safety measure as the lift is being operated and is in motion (going either up or down).
 

Snap50

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Dec 29, 2009
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New England
Buy American! Give your countryman a job and have somewhere to go if you need parts or have issues.

Backyard Buddy's got positive reviews from owners on the Corvette Forum.
Someone there posted comprehensive photos of his erecting two in his garage.
When all was said and dine, he loved them as did all the helpers who got to use the lifts.

There are a few discussions here: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-...on/2499971-four-post-lift-for-the-vettes.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-...ad-those-that-bought-or-researched-enter.html
And you can search that forum for "backyard buddy" and come up with many hits.

Four post lifts give me a much better feeling for storage use.
With a 2 post lift you never know if you have a crack in the slab that is just waiting to dump the lift and car to the ground, so long term unattended use would trouble me.
 
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ovilla

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Buy American! Give your countryman a job and have somewhere to go if you need parts or have issues.

Backyard Buddy's got positive reviews from owners on the Corvette Forum.
Someone there posted comprehensive photos of his erecting two in his garage.
When all was said and dine, he loved them as did all the helpers who got to use the lifts.

There are a few discussions here: http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-...on/2499971-four-post-lift-for-the-vettes.html
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-...ad-those-that-bought-or-researched-enter.html
And you can search that forum for "backyard buddy" and come up with many hits.

Four post lifts give me a much better feeling for storage use.
With a 2 post lift you never know if you have a crack in the slab that is just waiting to dump the lift and car to the ground, so long term unattended use would trouble me.


When it comes to lifts, I don't believe that the buy American slogan means anything anymore. Sure, folks would love to always buy American products to support their country, but nowadays there's no assurance that what you're buying is 100% American made or not. Any item can be made somewhere else with final assembly (even with imported "parts") in the US. To state that something is "American made" simply requires that certain tasks (or a certain percentage) be completed here. You could easily do some final welding/bending/painting here and sell it as Made in the USA. Sorry, especially with this global world that we live in, I just don't trust these MFG's that say they offer a 100% made in USA product. Just look at how almost every MFG that has a "US" made lift product now also offers an almost duplicate product line that is not. Want to bet that a lot of those parts are also interchangeable? Plus, we keep seeing more and more so called US branded tools that we know have headquarters here in the US (i.e. SnapOn) slowly come out with more and more tools that are made in other countries.

With regards to lifts, I think a lot of the purchasing decisions are still based on just a few factors: perception of value (more expensive ($$$) should be better), reviews and word of mouth, and the value placed on certifications.

BYB clearly has a pricing niche in place that helps them to sell their products. If their lifts were lower priced (similiar to other MFG's) then people would readily compare their lifts to everyone else, and would be more open to other reviews and/or would notice certifications and the safety features that are now commonly incorporated into lifts. Until then, people that think that more $$$ means better value, will continue to buy new $5K uncertified BYB 4 post lifts with no secondary safety locks. People that are a little more open minded will do their research and quickly realize that they can buy both a 4 post and possibly even a 2 post, that has kept up with the latest lift safety features, for the same money as one BYB lift.
 

Snap50

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New England
When it comes to lifts, I don't believe that the buy American slogan means anything anymore. Sure, folks would love to always buy American products to support their country, but nowadays there's no assurance that what you're buying is 100% American made or not. Any item can be made somewhere else with final assembly (even with imported "parts") in the US.

Agreed, but one can always ask the specific questions of the manufacturer before buying.

I'm saying that too many people buy Asian imports solely based on price and live to regret it all too soon. Think if a 2000# item has to be shipped across the ocean and comes in at hald the price, there have to be serious shortcommings with the product.

Keep your neighbor in work and he may do the same for you.

As for a lift, we make steel tube. channels, angles and plates in this country, so the chances are that the US companys are building domestic frameworks. The next important item is the cylinder that I have always regretted having imported (on floor and bottle jacks, plow lifts and the likes). Mine always leak in the first year or so and there are never rebuild parts available, not that I'd want to bother getting right back in the same situation a year later.
 

bazzateer

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Watford, Great Britain
The thing is, sometimes the budget is everything. If you really need that item now, and can only afford the cheap import, then the cheap import it is.

This is how I have to do things as I'm not going back into debt if I can help it. I work on the assumption that the cheaper item will get me by for a few years until I can afford something better.
 

JerseyJim

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Feb 6, 2009
Messages
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Central NJ
There is no question that buying American where possible is a good thing. The comments here that the line on what constitutes American made is blurring as well. It amazes me how emotional the lift discussions become. The question of American made usually pops up by the second or third post. But when it comes to tool discussions the fact that Hilti is not an American company and doesn't manufacture here doesn't seem to come up. That tells me that some of these discussions regarding lifts are being stoked by the lift guys themselves.

I drive American cars. I don't analyze the content. I figure that at least some Americans are being employed and the profits largely stay in this country. But as a manufacturer, I can tell you that manufacturing is becoming a lost art here. There are virtually no young tool and die makers. Most metal shops are owned by guys old enough to retire and when that happens these shops close as well. We employ a tool & die maker (he's originally from Russia) to show manufacturers how to make our products. They simply don't have the expertise on their own and would no bid the jobs if we didn't do it.

We sell our products into the world market. We can't afford to sit back and say BUY MY PRODUCTS... THEY MUST BE BETTER BECAUSE WE CHARGE MORE. You contractors out there know just what I mean. We would be out of business if we tried to use this model. There is no doubt in my mind that BYB makes a good product. Customers ultimately will decide if their business model works... Just as they do for all of us.

By the way... I can tell you from experience, steel parts from China are only cheaper if the labor content of the final product is really high. Steel itself is about the same. There have been times when quoted prices out of China have been higher than domestic prices because demand for steel within China was so high.

A couple final things to consider... Once you take the cost of benefits out of the equation, American car plants are competitive with foreign competitors. In fact they too have been setting up shop here and making cars in the US for years. So we can be competitive when we want to be. The challenge is to get better at what we do.

And finally... Didn't we see these same domestic Vs foreign quality rants back in the 60's? Now look at Japan's reputation for quality. Even though I do in fact prefer to buy American, there is a big difference between China and Japan. American companies essentially can't operate in Japan. You bought a Japanese tool and it was made in Japan and was sold by a Japanese company. American car companies are still very effectively excluded from their market. Our car companies are doing quite well in China. The situation for products being imported from China is somewhat better as well in that American companies contract the work and the bulk of the profits stay here. Still not the best scenario. But certainly better than Japan.
 

what2do

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Messages
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What2do - Jeff posts under the username JSK, he's actually in this thread on the first page.

If you do a search under Jeff's username, you'll find a ton of threads to choose from.

Thank you, lots more reading to do before the purchase! :thumbup:
 

Dave Heacock

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Jan 4, 2010
Messages
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Location
Santa Clarita, Ca
That tells me that some of these discussions regarding lifts are being stoked by the lift guys themselves.

You are correct. The imported lift manufacturers are trying to prove that their lifts are just as good as the USA made lifts and the USA made lift manufacturers are trying to prove that their lifts are better than the imported lifts. It is a cluster for the consumer who does not do it for a living. I used to think that the car dealers were some what uninformed about lifts and then we shifted to include the independent market; then the car dealers looked like experts.

We sell both American made and imported lifts from a bunch of different manufacturers (Rotary, Challenger, Bendpak, Quality, Revolution, etc). This way the customer can get the lift that they want for the price that they can afford. Unfortunately price has become a bigger factor in todays market especially so with the hobbyist and independent consumers. The adage that you get what you pay for is usually true unless you are getting ripped off and none of the top manufacturer are going to try to pull a fast one.

As for the question about failures and if they happen, Oh yes they happen, **** happens. Usually a hose or seal will start to weep or exhibit other symptoms prior to failure but not everytime. The really scary part is that you would not believe how many "professional" technicians bypass the primary lift locks with a tool or other object stuck into the mechanism. Besides the $10,000 fine from OSHA per occurance, you would think the extra effort to use two hands to lower the lift would be worth the extra protection to their life but I guess it is not.

I will leave you guys with pictures of the results from a technician that forgot to use all four of the lifting arms when lifting a vehicle (three arms just won't do it). Ouch! I do not want to name the facility and the lift while heavily damaged was not at fault. Like I said, it happens so stay safe.

Ouch.jpg

Ouch2.jpg
 
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mad57

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Jan 30, 2009
Messages
1,698
Any idea what BYB's response was?

I did ask them . the owner said that there was no need if you use the lift properly like they ask in directions the 4 locks engage together, then when height is reached lower all 4 locks in place taking weight off the cables, very simple. now if a hose was to burst or come undone ..there is a check valve to slowly let the lift go down...not just drop in the event the locks where in the unlocked position. very common sense very effective.
 

slowTA

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Mar 18, 2009
Messages
266
Location
Morris County, NJ
So what happens when you're holding the lock release and a cable breaks? Do you trust yourself to be quick enough to let go in hopes of the lock engaging the next set?

I agree with buying America, I agree that a lift doesn't HAVE to be certified to be safe, but I do believe every lift should make an attempt at having all of the newest safety features! BYB has 2 of the 3 going for them. Also if your floor isn't the most level you can't adjust the locks to have a level platform.
 
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mad57

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So what happens when you're holding the lock release and a cable breaks? Do you trust yourself to be quick enough to let go in hopes of the lock engaging the next set?


with the flow restrictor it goes down the same speed as it would normal its a great back up in it self.
 

slowTA

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Location
Morris County, NJ
Bazzateer, good catch! I thought the shims would just be for leveling the posts, not lifting them off the ground 1/4" to 1/2". That would leave the center of the post bottom plates unsupported.

Mad57, the flow restrictor only works by limiting the flow rate of fluid out of the cylinder should the hose spring a leak. It has nothing to do with the 4 cables that run up each post and are in tension whenever the runways are not resting on the locks. There is a HUGE difference between a flow restrictor and slack cable locks!
 

alberto

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May 28, 2007
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Customer phone call: So, is my car ready?

Service Manager: No sir, we found a problem with the muffler ball bearings. They are special order parts so it'll be a week before the car is ready. Due to the delay, we'll detail and buff the car for free. It'll look like new when you get it.

LOL.
 

mbmb

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Dec 12, 2005
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Houston
Whatever you do, don't buy from Greg "the customer is not always right" Smith equipment. I love my lift, but I'll never buy another thing from him again.

Thanks for that advice. Crossing GSE off my list of possible suppliers.
 
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e-tek

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Im actually feeling a little sorry for BBB....they have an uphill sell to begin with, then they make themselves look bad by allowing someone to post sales pitches and poor answers on a key lift-buyers site. :headscrat Its kinda sad.:(
 
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mad57

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Bazzateer, good catch! I thought the shims would just be for leveling the posts, not lifting them off the ground 1/4" to 1/2". That would leave the center of the post bottom plates unsupported.

Mad57, the flow restrictor only works by limiting the flow rate of fluid out of the cylinder should the hose spring a leak. It has nothing to do with the 4 cables that run up each post and are in tension whenever the runways are not resting on the locks. There is a HUGE difference between a flow restrictor and slack cable locks!

I under stand that... guess ill just take my chances while standing there lowering the lift with 1 hand on spring loaded locking lever and other on release valve and pray that the cables dont break at that precise moment.:lol_hitti
 

ovilla

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I under stand that... guess ill just take my chances while standing there lowering the lift with 1 hand on spring loaded locking lever and other on release valve and pray that the cables dont break at that precise moment.:lol_hitti


You'll be just fine. As with any lift, always keep safety in mind and keep focused on what you are doing. Many folks have lifts that aren't certified and don't have secondary safety locks, and I'm sure they're going to be just fine too. Remember that 5-7 years ago a lot of these features weren't even available on lifts yet so nobody ever talked about them. So, if you were tired of jackstands you saved up your money and bought a lift.

My point is simply this. Nowadays, if you're going to sell $5,000 4 post lifts (like BYB does), then they should at a minimum at least incorporate the latest safety features, just like other less costly lifts. BYB has been making the same lifts since day ONE and has never updated their designs. I seriously doubt you will find anything different between a new BYB lift and one from 7 years ago. They keep talking about their structural column design and nothing else. As a consumer, I just can't imagine why folks willing to spend this high sum of money would not value any added safety improvements that can now be had (at an even cheaper and yet more reasonable price) from other MFG's.
 
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Hello All -
Please check out our newest video with TV host Sam Memmolo of "Two Guys Garage" & "Shade tree Mechanic"!
The video will answer to a lot of the questions regarding our lift, locking system, among others questions that have been asked here.
www.backyardbuddy.com/BYBV.html
U.S. Steel prices have gone down and so have our lifts prices. If you want to find out more about the price or have questions regarding our lifts give us a call at 800 837-9353.
Thanks,
Backyard Buddy Team!
 

tgreening

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Dec 20, 2009
Messages
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By the way... I can tell you from experience, steel parts from China are only cheaper if the labor content of the final product is really high. Steel itself is about the same. There have been times when quoted prices out of China have been higher than domestic prices because demand for steel within China was so high.

Facts are that labor costs in places like China and India are so cheap that they are not even a factor in final product cost. That cannot be said for the US. The reason that you get junk out of foreign mfgrs is because that is all the consumer is willing to pay for. The Chinese mfgr doesn't care that his labor is squat and he could produce a quality product and still be cheaper than domestic US because he is selling on a global scale and he knows he can charge global market prices. If you want quality from him you can get it, but you are also going to pay for it. Odds are the guts in the computer you type on each night are made in China, or Taiwan, or some other "junk producing" country, yet they are of high quality.

A WELL paid factory worker in India knocks down probably between $275-$350 a month. Last time I was there it was around $250 and that was in a high class, high tech, well equipped mfgr that dealt on the global market and produced high quality product. Work that out to an hourly wage and you can see why I said labor is so cheap it isn't even a factor.

A couple final things to consider... Once you take the cost of benefits out of the equation, American car plants are competitive with foreign competitors. In fact they too have been setting up shop here and making cars in the US for years. So we can be competitive when we want to be. The challenge is to get better at what we do.

Isn't that kind of like saying "once you cut an employees wages in half"? The US is already "better at what we do" from a production standpoint. US employees, not always through their own efforts, are already the most "productive" when it comes to churning out product. We just have a hard time doing it competitively cost wise.

And finally... Didn't we see these same domestic Vs foreign quality rants back in the 60's? Now look at Japan's reputation for quality. Even though I do in fact prefer to buy American, there is a big difference between China and Japan. American companies essentially can't operate in Japan. You bought a Japanese tool and it was made in Japan and was sold by a Japanese company. American car companies are still very effectively excluded from their market. Our car companies are doing quite well in China. The situation for products being imported from China is somewhat better as well in that American companies contract the work and the bulk of the profits stay here. Still not the best scenario. But certainly better than Japan.


Have you been to Japan lately? When they are looking to do something cheap they go to the same place as everyone else, China. A LOT of Japanese products are outsourced to Chicom, just like here. Walking through a lot of their stores is just like walking through Wal-mart here.

Probably the single biggest reason US cars do not fair well in Japan is consumer perception. To the Japanese mind and eye, US made cars are just not on a par quality wise with Toyota or Honda. They simply prefer to buy their domestic made product. The biggest difference (so far) between them and us is they are MORE than willing to pay a higher price to get what they perceive as higher quality. They aren't always getting it but as long as they think they are they will pay.

Priced a pair of Levi 505's in Tokyo or Osaka lately?
 

ovilla

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Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,342
Location
Plainfield, IL
Hello All -
Please check out our newest video with TV host Sam Memmolo of "Two Guys Garage" & "Shade tree Mechanic"!
The video will answer to a lot of the questions regarding our lift, locking system, among others questions that have been asked here.
www.backyardbuddy.com/BYBV.html
U.S. Steel prices have gone down and so have our lifts prices. If you want to find out more about the price or have questions regarding our lifts give us a call at 800 837-9353.
Thanks,
Backyard Buddy Team!

Great video! I've always liked watching Sam and his numerous product endorsements. Also, glad to see that you finally updated your sales video and removed the one with Jason Woods (your old sales manager - now turned competitor) and replaced him with Sam.


Listed below are just a few observatinos from your video.


Lift comparisons.
Why are you still comparing a BYB lift to an outdated import lift with welded on lock tabs on a formed channel post? Other than craigslist, who even sells one of these anymore and who would buy one nowadays? Why not compare to a comparable certified 4 post lift product that's around the same price point, or at least close to it, from any of today's leading MFG's (like BendPak, Rotary, Challenger, etc.)? Be like every other commercial on tv that shows the name brand of the competitor that they are comparing their product to.

Rolling hydraulic jack.
Cars/trucks have various lifting points at the front/rear, with some being within the boundaries within the inside of the ramp width and some being placed even as far as the middle of the ramps themselves. Some vehicles, like a Jeep liberty, even mandate that you lift under the rear axle. Without pull out side bars to accommodate different widths, how would this jack ever lift anything beyond a hot rod with a dropped beam axle (as shown in your video)?

Plastic cable guides.
Is this even relevant anymore? What MFG's even produce a lift with a plastic guide?


Certification

Sorry, but the continued reasoning given to not participate in an organization like ALI that has helped to ensure continued product safety improvements (like secondary locks and centralized point of locking/unlocking), which has been adopted by numerous competing MFG's that have been in business a lot longer than BYB, and which even offer commercial grade lifts (which BYB doesn't) is totally WEAK.

How about an updated side by side comparison test against an imported certified lift that incorporates secondary safety locks? The likelihood of someone's 4 post lift being rammed by a forklift or another car are just not that common of a concern and not something that most folks worry about. The only real tests would have to address issues that can occur as a lift is being operated, in either an up or down position. Things like a burst hydraulic line (which you did address), a frayed cable that breaks, or even cable slack (due to improper maintenance/adjustment or a hung up cable), are more real world situations.

Certification testing (to squash the need for certified lifts)

Why not perform this test and squash all of the certification concerns once and for all? Put a car on a BYB lift and raise it to say 5' in the air and purposely leave it hanging there without engaging the locks into any of the columns. This now simulates a lift "in use" as it's going up or down. Now put the exact same model car onto any competitors certified lift (like a BendPak HD-9) and lift to the exact same height, and adjust the height as needed, to ensure that the locks are also not engaged at any of the columns.

Now take a grinder and purposely cut through half or 3/4 of the way through the cable at any one column (to simulate a frayed cable that breaks apart or a cable that has come off a pulley and is caught up and cut, and is now compromised). Do this first with the certified lift and watch as that particular column's wire totally unravels itself, since it can't support the weight of the vehicle anymore at that column, and the vehicle starts to drop (only at that column) and then almost instantly the secondary safety locks engage and lock the ramp to the next lower locking point on that same column. Notice how the lift has addressed this cable scenario and has ensured that the vehicle did not fall off the lift or even damage the lift itself (since the ladder bar design does allow for some sway within the column).

Now do the same thing with the BYB lift and watch how there is no seconday safety feature to be engaged (since BYB lifts only come with the ONE primary lock design). Hence, the lift's structured square steel column design is compromised as it no longer supports the weight of the vehicle. Now the car's entire weight shifts toward the compromised column, bending that column along with the other three columns, as the lift collapses and damages the car and the lift.

This (the scenario above) is the reason why you gladly pony up the fees to join an organization like ALI that allows MFG's to jointly bring up concerns that transition into certification standards. If you still don't think that this scenario can ever occur, then you are simply in denial. The weakest point of all lifts is during use of the lift, not when the locks are fully engaged and the vehicle is stationary. You have 4 cables holding the weight of a car during use (just like every other MFG) and yet you are doing nothing to address this concern, and are instead hoping that the only failure that can occur will always be hydraulic related. Why not make a safer lift, especially when the method is already widely known and in use?

P.S. What happened to the affordable 2 post ifts that BYB was coming out with? Still no pics or mention on the site.
 

rwhite692

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Mar 4, 2008
Messages
1,850
Location
Central Valley, CA
Ovilla, I agree it would be great for BYB to do a "cut the cable and watch what happens" video.

Does Bend-Pak have a video like this? If so, can you post a link?
 
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mad57

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Jan 30, 2009
Messages
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Great video! I've always liked watching Sam and his numerous product endorsements. Also, glad to see that you finally updated your sales video and removed the one with Jason Woods (your old sales manager - now turned competitor) and replaced him with Sam.


Listed below are just a few observatinos from your video.


Lift comparisons.
Why are you still comparing a BYB lift to an outdated import lift with welded on lock tabs on a formed channel post? Other than craigslist, who even sells one of these anymore and who would buy one nowadays? Why not compare to a comparable certified 4 post lift product that's around the same price point, or at least close to it, from any of today's leading MFG's (like BendPak, Rotary, Challenger, etc.)? Be like every other commercial on tv that shows the name brand of the competitor that they are comparing their product to.

Rolling hydraulic jack.
Cars/trucks have various lifting points at the front/rear, with some being within the boundaries within the inside of the ramp width and some being placed even as far as the middle of the ramps themselves. Some vehicles, like a Jeep liberty, even mandate that you lift under the rear axle. Without pull out side bars to accommodate different widths, how would this jack ever lift anything beyond a hot rod with a dropped beam axle (as shown in your video)?

Plastic cable guides.
Is this even relevant anymore? What MFG's even produce a lift with a plastic guide?


Certification

Sorry, but the continued reasoning given to not participate in an organization like ALI that has helped to ensure continued product safety improvements (like secondary locks and centralized point of locking/unlocking), which has been adopted by numerous competing MFG's that have been in business a lot longer than BYB, and which even offer commercial grade lifts (which BYB doesn't) is totally WEAK.

How about an updated side by side comparison test against an imported certified lift that incorporates secondary safety locks? The likelihood of someone's 4 post lift being rammed by a forklift or another car are just not that common of a concern and not something that most folks worry about. The only real tests would have to address issues that can occur as a lift is being operated, in either an up or down position. Things like a burst hydraulic line (which you did address), a frayed cable that breaks, or even cable slack (due to improper maintenance/adjustment or a hung up cable), are more real world situations.

Certification testing (to squash the need for certified lifts)

Why not perform this test and squash all of the certification concerns once and for all? Put a car on a BYB lift and raise it to say 5' in the air and purposely leave it hanging there without engaging the locks into any of the columns. This now simulates a lift "in use" as it's going up or down. Now put the exact same model car onto any competitors certified lift (like a BendPak HD-9) and lift to the exact same height, and adjust the height as needed, to ensure that the locks are also not engaged at any of the columns.

Now take a grinder and purposely cut through half or 3/4 of the way through the cable at any one column (to simulate a frayed cable that breaks apart or a cable that has come off a pulley and is caught up and cut, and is now compromised). Do this first with the certified lift and watch as that particular column's wire totally unravels itself, since it can't support the weight of the vehicle anymore at that column, and the vehicle starts to drop (only at that column) and then almost instantly the secondary safety locks engage and lock the ramp to the next lower locking point on that same column. Notice how the lift has addressed this cable scenario and has ensured that the vehicle did not fall off the lift or even damage the lift itself (since the ladder bar design does allow for some sway within the column).

Now do the same thing with the BYB lift and watch how there is no seconday safety feature to be engaged (since BYB lifts only come with the ONE primary lock design). Hence, the lift's structured square steel column design is compromised as it no longer supports the weight of the vehicle. Now the car's entire weight shifts toward the compromised column, bending that column along with the other three columns, as the lift collapses and damages the car and the lift.

This (the scenario above) is the reason why you gladly pony up the fees to join an organization like ALI that allows MFG's to jointly bring up concerns that transition into certification standards. If you still don't think that this scenario can ever occur, then you are simply in denial. The weakest point of all lifts is during use of the lift, not when the locks are fully engaged and the vehicle is stationary. You have 4 cables holding the weight of a car during use (just like every other MFG) and yet you are doing nothing to address this concern, and are instead hoping that the only failure that can occur will always be hydraulic related. Why not make a safer lift, especially when the method is already widely known and in use?

P.S. What happened to the affordable 2 post ifts that BYB was coming out with? Still no pics or mention on the site.

I sent byb your write up word for word here was there response :


I read your lengthy e-mail an must think you are in the lift buss or related but can't understand why you put so much time in criticism when there are a lot of factors to buss that you may or may not understand.
we have been in the heavy steel fab business for 40 plus years and with all the experience that goes with that.
1 cables do not break if they are on a properly sized shive also each of our cables will take 14,500 # and there are 4 on each lift and each one is only subjected to 2000# max there is also a 50% overload factor.
in over 20 plus years we have only replaced one cable and the guy caught it with front bumper backing of lift.
2 our jack platform does have extendable arms so most cars fit I just happened to have my hot rod here when we took pictures,we even have adapters for the 05-10 corvette lifting points.
3 if you watched the video we did compare to(and we don't mention names for litigation purpose) the most current lift on market watch again
4 about Ali we stand on our merits we have the lifts that are certified in our factory and the quality doesn't cut it.do all lifts work of course but for how long and you still today gets what you pay for.
5 the commercial market for lifts is not a market we chose to be in everybody want a cheaper price and that has forced the big company's to go off shore.we take pride of still being built in America with American steel and workers.
6 old style lifts are still being sold in many of the current publications,look closely at the pictures.
7 the weight of a car will not bend a 4" structure tube or our ramps because of the design assure you the formed post and ramps will buckle like butter they are a throw away lift that will last a few years and that's it.
8 thank you for being customer.
i hope i have answered some of your thoughts and appreciate your feed back its tough fighting cheap products but in the long run people will see the difference.
larry gross
backyard buddy corp.
 

sam 8

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 6, 2008
Messages
253
Location
Sierra Foothills, Nor. Calif.
FWIW I have had my Backyard Buddy 4-Post Lift for about 18 months.
It gets cycled about 3-4 times per week. My '65 VW Beetle fits, my '40 Ford Sedan fits, and our Tacoma trucks fit. My longbed 4x4 crewcab diesel dually is a mite long, LOL.
It has never runaway. The cables have never tweaked, twanged or otherwise malfunctioned. The locking mechanism works flawlessly, and I check each lock on every lift.

Just an observation...this arguement is alot like the Ford v. Chevy deal. Everyone has an opinon. Most folks try to base that opinion on personal experience. Some don't. Those folks are like talking engines with a guy who reads lots of magazines but has never built one. A waste of time.
Some just seem to have a never ending dislike for a particular product for what seems to be no reason.
Whatever.
I did the research, and bought the lift I liked. I voted with my wallet.
All of these machines are expensive and represent a big investment.
Spending 3 to 5k or more and relying entirely on the opinion of guys on the internet just seems silly to me.
 

e-tek

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 19, 2007
Messages
10,690
Location
Saskatoon, SK
I'm (almost) getting tired of what sometimes seems like BYB "trashing", but there are some definitely misleading parts of that video that I have to comment on. It certainly made me think less of Sam for the first time!

I noticed right away, as Ovilla did, that they are using one of the LEAST expensive and oldest lift designs as a comparator. My BP lift - and all others I've seen - is NOTHING like the lift they use in the video. The locks aren't welded blocks, the ramps aren't bend-formed and the posts are MUCH thicker than that shown.

I think a weak point on the BYB system is the lock holes cut into the columns. That part looks much more likely to be a damage or shear-point than would a welded on block - or especially BP's ladder lock system - which is made of a plate about 3/4" thick.

Sam also comments on the "softness" of the ramp surface, in order that the tread pattern be stamped. But the BYB ramp has the same pattern! I notice that my BP lift doesn't use checker-plate at all, but has a VERY difficult to wear "shard" tread applique. As well the video mentions the comparator having no gussets welded under the ramp - but my BP has several. Again, they obviously chose the most inferior lift they could find to compare themselves against.


Another major difference I noticed was in the rails for the rolling jack - BYB has a flat ledge that could release the jack if the ramps where to spead apart. With the rollers being about 1/2" wide, it would only take 1\4" of movement on both sides to allow the jack to fall off the ramp ledge. On my BP lift there is a CHANNEL that the jack blocks slide in. Not only is there no way for it to slide off, it is another point that keeps it all together.

The bit at the end about ALI cert is laughable. It just not good advertising to say ALL the other lifts - which are ALI certifed - are inferior to theirs. If ALI is a minimum standard that they KNOW makes a difference to the consumer, why not just join, be certified, continue to build what they feel is a superior lift and reap the benefits of certification? I don't get that.

I'm not saying the BYB is not a quality lift. It is. But they each have differing designs, all having differences when compared side by side. The consumer will always weigh all the options, including price and especially word of mounth and make their decison based on that.

After 2 years of heavy use, I stand firmly behind my decision to have a BP lift. It has every important feature ever listed, ALI certification, incredible customer service and the best word of mouth support.
 

mechamunch

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 10, 2009
Messages
177
I sent byb your write up word for word here was there response :


I read your lengthy e-mail an must think you are in the lift buss or related but can't understand why you put so much time in criticism when there are a lot of factors to buss that you may or may not understand.
we have been in the heavy steel fab business for 40 plus years and with all the experience that goes with that.
1 cables do not break if they are on a properly sized shive also each of our cables will take 14,500 # and there are 4 on each lift and each one is only subjected to 2000# max there is also a 50% overload factor.
in over 20 plus years we have only replaced one cable and the guy caught it with front bumper backing of lift.
2 our jack platform does have extendable arms so most cars fit I just happened to have my hot rod here when we took pictures,we even have adapters for the 05-10 corvette lifting points.
3 if you watched the video we did compare to(and we don't mention names for litigation purpose) the most current lift on market watch again
4 about Ali we stand on our merits we have the lifts that are certified in our factory and the quality doesn't cut it.do all lifts work of course but for how long and you still today gets what you pay for.
5 the commercial market for lifts is not a market we chose to be in everybody want a cheaper price and that has forced the big company's to go off shore.we take pride of still being built in America with American steel and workers.
6 old style lifts are still being sold in many of the current publications,look closely at the pictures.
7 the weight of a car will not bend a 4" structure tube or our ramps because of the design assure you the formed post and ramps will buckle like butter they are a throw away lift that will last a few years and that's it.
8 thank you for being customer.
i hope i have answered some of your thoughts and appreciate your feed back its tough fighting cheap products but in the long run people will see the difference.
larry gross
backyard buddy corp.

Whoa....was he drunk when he typed that up? I know this is the internet and everything but come on, dude!

Ladies and gentlemen, Larry Gross.

Anyways, I think he's basically saying, "We know what we're doing goddamn it, stop asking so many questions! Just trust us, ya darn kids!"

I would also be really interested in seeing a cable-cut competition between BYB and a large, certified lift manufacturer's product. Anyone got the resources to do an unofficial test and film it?
 

OldCarGuy

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 29, 2005
Messages
2,008
Location
Ohio
I'm (almost) getting tired of what sometimes seems like BYB "trashing", but there are some definitely misleading parts of that video that I have to comment on. It certainly made me think less of Sam for the first time!

My sentiments exactly! Back Yard Buddy is almost in my backyard. When researching four-post lifts years ago, I entirely wrote them off. Even though overall they were less money than the Stinger lifts that I purchased. My biggest turnoff was their sales manager's arrogance and the way he kept running down the other lift manufactures. I'd say that Stinger's are better engineered and built than a BYB. And I'd much rather have solid steel blocks welded to the upright columns as stops. Over slots cut into four columns.

Although being made in the USA goes a long way in promoting a lift. Not having it ALI Certified puts them in the same category as a cheaply made import. The best advice I can give BYB is stop being so cheap! Go the extra mile and have your lift Certified. At the time, had I known the importance of a lift being ALI Certified. I would have purchased a BendPak, Mohawk, or Rotary.
 

ovilla

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,342
Location
Plainfield, IL
I sent byb your write up word for word here was there response :


I read your lengthy e-mail an must think you are in the lift buss or related but can't understand why you put so much time in criticism when there are a lot of factors to buss that you may or may not understand.
we have been in the heavy steel fab business for 40 plus years and with all the experience that goes with that.
1 cables do not break if they are on a properly sized shive also each of our cables will take 14,500 # and there are 4 on each lift and each one is only subjected to 2000# max there is also a 50% overload factor.
in over 20 plus years we have only replaced one cable and the guy caught it with front bumper backing of lift.
2 our jack platform does have extendable arms so most cars fit I just happened to have my hot rod here when we took pictures,we even have adapters for the 05-10 corvette lifting points.
3 if you watched the video we did compare to(and we don't mention names for litigation purpose) the most current lift on market watch again
4 about Ali we stand on our merits we have the lifts that are certified in our factory and the quality doesn't cut it.do all lifts work of course but for how long and you still today gets what you pay for.
5 the commercial market for lifts is not a market we chose to be in everybody want a cheaper price and that has forced the big company's to go off shore.we take pride of still being built in America with American steel and workers.
6 old style lifts are still being sold in many of the current publications,look closely at the pictures.
7 the weight of a car will not bend a 4" structure tube or our ramps because of the design assure you the formed post and ramps will buckle like butter they are a throw away lift that will last a few years and that's it.
8 thank you for being customer.
i hope i have answered some of your thoughts and appreciate your feed back its tough fighting cheap products but in the long run people will see the difference.
larry gross
backyard buddy corp.

I do like how they responded so quickly to your email and tried to address each and every point that I made. I know my list was lengthy but how's that any different from a perspective buyer who has a lot of questions/concerns? Heck, most of us research for years before we take a leap and finally make a big lift purchase. Anyway, why can't they have this meaningful dialogue on this great site? I won't bite. Plus, there's a lot of folks with BYB lifts on this site who are very happy with their lifts and might have other questions. I'm really hating how they are starting to be almost SPAM like with their monthly thread "updates" and refuse to join in on meaningful thread discussions. Nobody else does this.

Just to clear things up. No, I'm not a lift professional in any way (actually an IT guy) that is proud to own a certified BendPak HD-9. No, I don't hate BYB's product - I think it's a fine product (for what it is) that's aggresively marketed with misleading tactics and touted as being the best with no real quantifiable and credible reasoning behind it. Unfortunately, we've all been instilled with the thought that if it costs more (or the most) it must be the best out there. I have to disagree when it comes to the BYB lift. If you say you're the best, then you should account for every possible failure point within your lift design, and definitely have something that's on par or surpasses failure points commonly addressed by your competitors. They don't and they even refuse to acknowledge these things (which is rightfully their choice).

By the way, I had actually considered a model just like theirs a while back (remember Autolifters?). It was the same design as BYB but a little cheaper. I then decided to re-evaluate all of the lift MFG's since a lot had changed over a couple of years and that's when I discovered BendPak, called them with a ton of questions, and later bought my HD-9.

Finally, the only thing I do not like about BYB is that if they're going to sell such an expensive lift (5K range or whatever it is nowadays since I can't get this info off their site) and then tout it as being the best safest lift ever, then it should at a minimum incorporate ALI certification standards, which are now widely offered from numerous MFG's for even as little over half the price point of BYB lifts. I'm sure even Sam would have to agree with this sentiment.
 
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ket-tek

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 28, 2009
Messages
1,289
The quote from above is a perfect example of the type of comments I got when talking to BYB a while ago:

"assure you the formed post and ramps will buckle like butter they are a throw away lift that will last a few years and that's it."

This is just not professional, and has no technical value in comparing lifts.

SHOW us a ramp from any 4 post that buckled like butter, EVER??
 
Last edited:

ovilla

Well-known member
Joined
Dec 18, 2005
Messages
2,342
Location
Plainfield, IL
The quote from above is a perfect example of the type of comments I got when talking to BYB a while ago:

"assure you the formed post and ramps will buckle like butter they are a throw away lift that will last a few years and that's it."

This is just not professional, and has no technical value in comparing lifts.

SHOW us a ramp from any 4 post that buckled like butter, EVER??

It is interesting how other MFG's don't use the same marketing tactics as BYB. I've yet to ever encounter a BendPak, Rotary, Mohawk, Gregg Smith, etc. video, article, or commentary from any of them that compares any of their products to any of their competitors, or even talks about them.
 
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