What do you use for CAD?

[racecougar]

AutoCAD 2023 & Inventor 2023 here.

 

[Hohn]

I really need to start getting some use out of my new-to-me CNC mill this year, and that, of course, necessitates a good CAD program and post-processors.

Generally speaking, it would seem that for someone in my position- small shop but with proper industrial machines, not desktop toys- it boils down to either Fusion 360 or Solidworks.

I've played with F360 a few times, but have barely gotten past the point of poking it with a stick and grunting. I've had a chance to use a program that used 360's included post-processor, and it worked perfectly.

But, at the same time, Solidworks' price has come down considerably, and I've been told by a few that it's "better" in some ways than 360.

I know this question has been asked here time and again, but I also know that the technology keeps changing. And yes, I'm also aware of other options like Alibre and Mastercam, but I also don't know as much about them as the other two.

Thoughts? Opinions? Suggestions? Preferences?

Doc.

At work, Creo.

At home, OnShape.

 

[Whitworth]

F360 here. It's strong suite is that it's cheap.
Otherwise, I find it a frustrating, non-intuitive product that can eventually get the job done.

Like anything, you put more hours into it, makes some aspects second nature. If you hit a stumbling block, the procedure is to mess around with it until you get frustrated as hell. Go onto YouTube and find a video that gives a walkthrough, (hopefully the video isn't so old it's next to useless). Then do a step by step to whatever it is you want to do.

The file structure is fucked up as hell.

Extensions to your primary subscription are expensive.

CAM works, but I find it glitchy and also non-intuitive.

 

[gte718p]

Hopefully it's changed a little over the years.

Ever use NX I-deas? Not the current Siemens NX

I did. Loved it.

Seimens is a sponsor of mine, but I don’t use any of their CAD products. I found the transition form I-dead to Fusion to be easier the CATIA, Pro-E, or Solid Works.

I despise Fusion, not because it is a bad product, but because Autodesk build the product based on the maker community. They promised to always support the free/maker tier. They now that they have used the community as unpaid beta testers, they are turning hostile to the maker community to make $3 extra.

I still think it is the best and easiest full featured CAD/CAM suite out there.

 

[Farmall450]

I did. Loved it.

I don't mind the drafting part, but master modeler is a PITA to me. Just don't use it enough.

 

[speed bump]

Hopefully it's changed a little over the years.

Ever use NX I-deas? Not the current Siemens NX

One of the things I was happy about was when I took engineering 315 was my class was when they finally gave up on I-deas. Of course they went to CATIA for our class which proficiency in has been equally useless but at least it was closer to a useful program for 99% of what I have used CAD for.

 

[Farmall450]

One of the things I was happy about was when I took engineering 315 was my class was when they finally gave up on I-deas. Of course they went to CATIA for our class which proficiency in has been equally useless but at least it was closer to a useful program for 99% of what I have used CAD for.

I used NX10 and 12 in school.

MechEs used Solidworks. I dabbled in it and found going between the two to be fine. I-deas is whole new beast

 

[rocksnstumps]

Ok semi luddite question here after downloading whatever free version you can get with Fusion 360. I'm sure lots of youtube videos you can watch for 20 mins to get your 20 secs of critical info but I still prefer a reference manual at times. Look it up in index and not have to be online and yada yada. Any helpful titles for learning 360 out there?

I started my career on a drafting board and by the time PC based CAD had become popular I was already out of the CAD/design phase of my career. Did take a couple Solidworks classes while switching jobs some years ago but never a proficient user. But hey, still have the reference manuals for SW 2010.

Just looking for a way to generate some files that can be sent off for water jetting or laser cutting, whatever. Don't have a mill and making simple slots and curves is tedious and not proud of the functional but crappy looking aesthetics.

Thx for any help

 

[Cruzan80]

I don't know of any manuals, as they have (in the past) changed several options/locations/views of things. For a while, it felt like every 2 weeks was a new update. I have heard it has settled down quite a bit, but not sure if it has been long enough for publishers to feel ok to print something.

 

[rocksnstumps]

I don't know of any manuals, as they have (in the past) changed several options/locations/views of things. For a while, it felt like every 2 weeks was a new update. I have heard it has settled down quite a bit, but not sure if it has been long enough for publishers to feel ok to print something.

Thx for feedback. So if I do look for a publication better make sure very recent published dates. For Solidworks a lot of the basic functions did not change all that much, only new add-ons and such so even older reference still had value. Local library has some Solidworks materials, el zippo for Fusion 360 so willing to part with a little bit of cold hard cash. Just want to find what has been helpful for others. Maybe that means just a half dozen youtube vids titles for now but still hopeful on the hardcopy in hand version.

 

[Cruzan80]

Yeah, for SW, I think you are ok doing certifications back to 2014-2016, IIRC? Which means the main fuctionality is a good 10 years continuous.

Just looked, 2015 for CSWP (second level exam). So 9 years worth of support. Is F360 a price choice, or do you want CAM, or...?

 

[Farmall450]

At work, Creo.

At home, OnShape.

At work, Creo.

At home, Creo Student*.

 

[loganb]

At my day job, we use Solid Edge and Mastercam. For home CAD, I have Alibre. https://www.alibre.com/

Hey, another Alibre user....now there are two of us! Lol. Oddly enough we also use SolidEdge for work, or 2d cad via AutoCad or BricsCad which is an Autocad clone

I personally prefer Solidworks. But unless you're running a 6 figure + business doing pure mechanical design work, I struggle to see the business case for SW justifying over F360.

I'm personally using Alibre which is a SW clone type program....its not bad. I'm not using any CAM stuff at this time with it, but if using it for a professional entity step up to at least their mid level package, don't use the Atom version

 

[Cruzan80]

Logan, have you tried OnShape? Never tried Alibre, but I know the startup guys (read codemonkeys) for OnShape used to work for Dassault. Curious about the similarities/differences.

 

[rocksnstumps]

Yeah, for SW, I think you are ok doing certifications back to 2014-2016, IIRC? Which means the main fuctionality is a good 10 years continuous.

Just looked, 2015 for CSWP (second level exam). So 9 years worth of support. Is F360 a price choice, or do you want CAM, or...?

I'm not cheap, I'm frugal! Retired and will be infrequent and personal use for any steel parts so F360 is something was looking at learning. Maybe 3D printing someday but honestly I like stuff made of steel so I can bash it and crash it at will.

 

[Cruzan80]

Believe me, we have all been there. Maybe try looking at OnShape? Not sure if they have any more paper manual stuff than F360, but also free, and as mentioned above, made by people who used to work for Dassault/SW. So the interface is similar. F360 is styled much closer to Inventor. Nothing wrong with either, but more of a Coke/Pepsi thing. And since you said you had tried SW before, this may seem more familiar.

 

[cleaner]

Creo Parametric for part design (MCAD), I have a perpetual license. If you purchase a new Creo license now it is subscription only. Autodesk products are all subscription only. Do not go with subscription only or cloud-based packages IMO. I have seen both of these schemes bring work to a halt for extended periods of time in other organizations.

With a perpetual license you can run it for as long as you can keep a machine going that will run the CAD package. For the parts you are making it is not likely that you would ever need to upgrade based on the design capability of the software. If you could find someone who has a perpetual license owned by a legal entity (i.e. S corp, LLC etc.) that you could purchase, then you could acquire a perpetual license of Creo by buying the company.

From your description of what you need, I would get a perpetual Solidworks license. Creo is more capable than SWorks but it sounds like you are not dealing with areas where it would matter vs Solidworks.

To generate G-code for CAM I use the Autodesk HSM because I have access to it. I send work out to shops that use Mastercam, Cimatron, Surfcam to build tooling from our design models.

 

[loganb]

Logan, have you tried OnShape? Never tried Alibre, but I know the startup guys (read codemonkeys) for OnShape used to work for Dassault. Curious about the similarities/differences.

Never used OnShape, just looked thru their site and it's probably more than capable.

The challenge I have is the free version is all cloud based, public storage only. I'm a hobbyist, in my garage, not selling anything at this time...that may change one day...may not. But having no options for private storage of what I do is a problem for me. I go back to the old saying that if you're not paying for it, you're not the customer....rings true here. $1,500 a year for the standard plan which basically just adds private storage and improved customer service is tough for me to stomach for my personal use case.

The Alibre version I use is Atom, which right now is 199 for a permanent license. I picked it up on their annual Black Friday sale for less than half price I believe, at some point I'll probably upgrade to Design Pro on that or a similar sale as it does add some features that would be nice...but for now Atom does all I need and more.

Biggest problem I honestly have with it is the user base is pretty low, so it takes more effort to find online tutorials on how to do some "new to me" command or tool then if I was using SolidWorks, F360 or something else with broader adoption. My brother introduced me to it as it's what he uses at his work which is a 2 man material testing shop...$10k a year or so for SolidWorks for 2 licenses wasn't sitting well with him so he kept looking, found Alibre and has been happy enough with it. He does now have a Tormach mill and I think he is designing in Alibre, then loading to F360 and using it for the CAM side to feed the mill for now

 

[scooby074]

Learned Autocad at school. Solidworks at work. Had SW at home too but lost that access. Tried to learn Fusion but I just cant get my head around it. SW just works the way I think. I really hate f360 and I gave it a legit chance, even watched some of Lars' videos to try and get it figured out but I just cant work smoothly in it

 

[speed bump]

For everyone wishing they had solid works you can get SW for makers for $50/yr and as far as I can tell it is close enough to straight up SW that I wouldn't even consider fusion anymore.

 

[CapriMikeC]

Alibre is a little less polished than SolidWorks and Solid Edge. They could possibly increase their users by copying SW & SE a little more on the workflow, UI, and appearance. But for the price difference and home projects, it's good. It's also nice they're in Richardson, TX and just a phone call away.

The subscription business model makes sense for the software companies but is awful for the users. My files are mine and I will not pay ransom, extortion, fines, tithe, etc. Software that has to "phone home" to check my account status every time I open it is also a no-go for me.

 

[danski0224]

Soon it will be impossible to avoid subscription software.

Autodesk took away existing perpetual licenses fairly recently.

 

[sz0k30]

Hey, another Alibre user....now there are two of us! Lol.

Make that 3 of us . Long retired, a former Unigraphics (NX) user, & I absolutely loved UG & loved my job - GM Chassis Designer. I loved what I did so much that I needed a system to play with at home, but no way could I afford UG. So after a lot of looking I found Alibre many years ago. A major step down from UG, but for a hobbyist now, a great system to play with & enjoy!

 

[billconner]

Soon it will be impossible to avoid subscription software.

Autodesk took away existing perpetual licenses fairly recently.

Wouldn't "stop selling" perpetual licenses be more accurate? I retired about that time - 2019? - and chose to keep my perpetual license. I hope to be able to use it as long as I am able.

 

[slodat]

It is dirt simple, and free to have all your Fusion 360 files on your local filesystem. Their Autodesk Connector works like a virtual drive of sorts. You click cache this project, and it is saved to the local filesystem. I do this often when working on client sites.

 

[danski0224]

Wouldn't "stop selling" perpetual licenses be more accurate? I retired about that time - 2019? - and chose to keep my perpetual license. I hope to be able to use it as long as I am able.

Yes, but Autodesk removed the "multi user subscription" and replaced it with a "single user subscription".

I'm sure there's more.

Adobe is another one.

 

[niget2002]

The file structure is fucked up as hell

This is my only gripe with F360.

I learned engineering with AutoCAD and then switched to Inventor when I could get the license through my wife's teaching email account. Eventually I moved away from Inventor to F360.

I use the 'Free' version of F360, but it still does everything I personally need it to. I can't justify spending money on it. I use the CAM for my CNC machine. The free version has some limitations, but custom-written post processors can work around those limitations and make the machine fast again.

I have not tried too many other CAD software. I've considered FreeCAD. I need to spend more time on youtube with that one to really see what I can do with it. Initial 'clicking around' on the interface to do something was not very intuitive for me.

I use parametric modelling on almost all of my designs. It's just way to nice being able to make one change in a variable list and have the design modify itself.

 

[no704]

Where are u getting SW hobby for $50/year?? EAA used to have that deal like 3 years ago.

 

[hans109h]

I've been using FreeCAD because it's open source and runs nicely on a linux system. The CAM workbench has been able to do everything I need for g-code creation. It's been nice to have CAD and CAM in the same package.

Nice software and a good support community.

Hans

 

[speed bump]

Where are u getting SW hobby for $50/year?? EAA used to have that deal like 3 years ago.

https://www.solidworks.com/solution/3dexperience-solidworks-makers

 

[mv213]

Make that 3 of us . Long retired, a former Unigraphics (NX) user, & I absolutely loved UG & loved my job - GM Chassis Designer. I loved what I did so much that I needed a system to play with at home, but no way could I afford UG. So after a lot of looking I found Alibre many years ago. A major step down from UG, but for a hobbyist now, a great system to play with & enjoy!

I’m the fourth Alibre user! I have the cheap version, Atom. It’s nice enough, but kind of dated. I was playing with a newer program the other day, Design Spark Mechanical. You could click-hold on a drawing face and pull or push it to extrude. It seemed so intuitive. I need to work with it some more.

 

[slim_grim]

I've not done any CAM work, but...

In school, I used Solidworks. In industry, I've used Catia V5 and Creo. For personal projects, I used Fusion for a couple years and never had any issues. They're all totally fine.

I learned a few years ago that a Solidworks license can be had for ~$20 a year for veterans. I jumped on it and I very much prefer it to Fusion. It's just a matter of personal preference though; Fusion is a perfectly capable software that's pretty intuitive.

 

[Chrome Vanadium Cody]

Despite hating computers I have been able to get competent at using fusion 360 for cad/cam. There’s lots of video tutorials online but this is the book I used: Parametric Modeling with Autodesk Fusion 360 (Spring 2023 Edition) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1630576107?tag=atomicindus08-20

It has good step by step projects that teach you how to use the various design tools the program has. I definitely still had to look up video tutorials for some things but this gave me a good base.

 

[loganb]

You could click-hold on a drawing face and pull or push it to extrude. It seemed so intuitive. I need to work with it some more.

This is one of the main features that will eventually push me to Alibre Pro as the direct modeling or push/pull of faces etc is in that but not Atom. Some of the sketching tools and some other items will be nice as well, but thats probably the single biggest thing I miss.

 

[mv213]

This is one of the main features that will eventually push me to Alibre Pro as the direct modeling or push/pull of faces etc is in that but not Atom. Some of the sketching tools and some other items will be nice as well, but thats probably the single biggest thing I miss.

I didn’t realize Alibre pro had that. Thanks for the info!

 

[rocksnstumps]

Despite hating computers I have been able to get competent at using fusion 360 for cad/cam. There’s lots of video tutorials online but this is the book I used: Parametric Modeling with Autodesk Fusion 360 (Spring 2023 Edition) https://www.amazon.com/dp/1630576107?tag=atomicindus08-20

It has good step by step projects that teach you how to use the various design tools the program has. I definitely still had to look up video tutorials for some things but this gave me a good base.

Thx for the info!

 

[GarageHobbyist]

I'll throw in for OnShape. I used F360 free for quite a while, and last year switched over to OnShape. It makes more sense to me and is laid out in a way that works for me.
I also figured that if F360 required internet and went to cloud storage, I might as well go fully cloud based. Now I can work on any machine anywhere without installing anything. I can work between my garage and house computer easily, and also jump in to something at work on breaks or slow times.
There are also a lot of great plug ins and integrations to make a ton of stuff much easier.

 

[Rccrawlerguy]

I use Fusion360 mainly. Its free if you are a hobbyist. Also, I use Qcad. Just the 2d version. It was $30. its pretty decent. I use it if i need to quickly make a DXF for the plasma table.

 

[gpiggaz]

Ok semi luddite question here after downloading whatever free version you can get with Fusion 360. I'm sure lots of youtube videos you can watch for 20 mins to get your 20 secs of critical info but I still prefer a reference manual at times. Look it up in index and not have to be online and yada yada. Any helpful titles for learning 360 out there?

I started my career on a drafting board and by the time PC based CAD had become popular I was already out of the CAD/design phase of my career. Did take a couple Solidworks classes while switching jobs some years ago but never a proficient user. But hey, still have the reference manuals for SW 2010.

Just looking for a way to generate some files that can be sent off for water jetting or laser cutting, whatever. Don't have a mill and making simple slots and curves is tedious and not proud of the functional but crappy looking aesthetics.

Thx for any help

FWIW I’ve been learning Fusion (no longer called Fusion 360) using this book. Wife found it and while a bit pricy it’s been helpful for me. (Mostly plan to use the free version for concert plasma cutting for personal use.)

https://www.amazon.com/Mastering-Fusion-360-Step-Step/dp/B0C6W4LJCX/?tag=atomicindus08-20

 

[Shoreline_]

Since buying a 3D printer last year, a friend of mine told me about Onshape. He said he was using it since 2016. I guess at one time it was free or something. Anyways I bought a year of it and it's fantastic. It wasn't super hard to learn as I took some parametric modeling software in high school (not inventor. Pre inventor). I like I only need webgl to run it. It's like running cad via TeamViewer.