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What happens to broken Snapon tools?

Junkdrawer Dog

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I doubt there is a steel mill in the world that uses only virgin iron ore or taconite to make steel. Steel doesn’t come out of the ground as steel. It’s iron ore, usually low grade, which is mostly iron bearing rock The low grade ore is often pre processed and converted to taconite on the iron ranges near the mines.

The steel itself is produced in furnaces and rolling mills where the chemistry is altered with heat and alloys.

Not sure where the misinformation that “virgin” steel is somehow superior to steel with recycle content ever came from.
This. For the last 13 years of my working days, I ran a billet reheat furnace at a mini mill in the midwest. All the steel we produced came from recycled scrap. The scrap is melted in an electric arc furnace and alloys are added per "recipe".The recipe is arrived at by industry specs or customer spec and determined by metallurgists. Our mill was capable doing "vacuum melt" steel which is very pure, high grade steel. Our customers included European truck manufacturers who used our steel for truck crankshaft forging blanks. There is no discernible difference in so called "virgin" steel and steel produced from scrap. It's all in the recipe and production process used.
 
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Legion Prime

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Leelenau County MI
Just found the newer "Super shredders" that can handle the formerly unshreddable hardened steels like truck axles. 6000 hp. Amazing technology.

The shredders aren't quite bronze age technology but yeah, a breaker/pry bar regardless of brand isn't likely to cause some of these bad boys much more than a momentary blip in torque. LOL

Enlighten us.
Can't prove a negative, just saying . . .
 
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pcmeiners

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"Really a disservice when members invent fictitious answers to serious questions on here, attempting humor. "

Your kids being very sick, you SO the same, there is a car accident, you loose your job, someone dies in the family...… those are serious, everything of a lesser concern is not serious and requires humor.

If this is a serious question, you would not do well in my universe.
 
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MarvinBerry

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It was done to mark them as scrap to keep them out of the garage sale perpetual warranty chain. Sears stores in Spokane used to spray paint them international orange and witness them being buried at the landfill.

While I don't doubt you I can say with 110% certainty that I never once sprayed any warrantied tool at Sears nor did I ever see anyone else do that in my 4 odd years working there.

Broken tools came in, they went down the chute into the 55 gallon bucket. I was never instructed to paint them and I never taught the newbies to do that either as I advanced the ranks... maybe that happened at other stores but not the one I worked.

Frankly we made money on a lot of warranty stuff. Not all of it but at least half of what came got upgraded. Tended to fall into a few categories...

The guy who came in with a box full of stuff, dozens of tools that were obviously bought at a garage sale? Rare but happened. Newbies weren't allowed to deal with this... had to talk to a dept manager or whoever was senior staff.

We'd basically shame the guy and play Jedi mind tricks. Hey this hammer isn't actually broken so we won't replace it. This rusted screwdriver or combo wrench? Junior, go in the back and put it on the wheel... clean it up. Keep digging through the box and maybe replace a couple 3 things that were actually broken.

Honesty went a long way. Someone who came in with a dirt covered ratchet & said they lost it 3 years ago and just found it in the yard? We'll replace that. That guy was usually buying other stuff too.

Most of the chrome sockets that came back, about 70% had been clearly abused on an impact. We'd point out the obvious damage and if the guy had a few like that and/or was a habitual offender that we recognized we'd offer to upgrade them to impacts and just pay the difference.

Was usually a good deal... you get the $4 per socket back and with a half dozen or so that's $25 off an impact set. Very few people turned that down.

Ratchets? We'd either offer a rebuild kit or had a stash of rebuilt ones in the stockroom. If someone made a stink/we didn't have a rebuild of that model/slammed busy on the floor we'd just give 'em a new ratchet.

Not sure we'll ever see that kind of service again en mass... where you can walk into a retail store and pick a replacement off the wall.

I'll say that for as busy as my store was it took a while to fill up a 55 gallon drum with busted ****. Probably only changed it out a handful of times a year. Even filling & swapping once a month would be a lot.

But yeah as far as I know those drums, circa 1994-98 were getting hauled to a recycle center. Same company also picked up all the scrap from our Sears auto and they had their own 55 gallon drums for small bits & quite a few more of 'em then the hardware dept ever did.
 
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toddmorr

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Potomac, Maryland
reminds me of auto industry practice.....they build some truly awesome prototypes, but have to scrap them once they've served their purpose, no matter how many company insiders are willing to buy.
 

The Fall

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My dad was sprayed with Agent Orange multiple times in Vietnam in 1968. At the same time, Ford was dumping disused paint onto Indian reservations. The idea that someone's lying on here -- that people didn't just dump tools into a river -- is perplexing. I don't doubt that's how busted tools were handled, considering the environmental standards (or lack thereof) at the time. Thankfully, we've come a long way.

I really enjoyed reading Marty McFly's recollections of Sears in the mid-'90s. They really WERE busy once. Incidentally, when I purchased tools Sears workers used at closeout sales, they were all painted orange. That might have been a store-by-store decision.
 

thebeekeeper1

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My dad was sprayed with Agent Orange multiple times in Vietnam in 1968. At the same time, Ford was dumping disused paint onto Indian reservations. The idea that someone's lying on here -- that people didn't just dump tools into a river -- is perplexing. I don't doubt that's how busted tools were handled, considering the environmental standards (or lack thereof) at the time. Thankfully, we've come a long way.

I really enjoyed reading Marty McFly's recollections of Sears in the mid-'90s. They really WERE busy once. Incidentally, when I purchased tools Sears workers used at closeout sales, they were all painted orange. That might have been a store-by-store decision.

 

claymont

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I was a millwright in a steel mill for quite a few years. One of the areas I worked in was the 'Melt Shop' two 175 ton electric furnaces that normally were pushed to 190 tons per heat. That takes a lot of steel scrap to feed those puppies:pimpflash Every couple of years a railroad scrap car would show up with load of Sears tools. If Sears made it, it was probably in that car. Most of the stuff was intentionally damaged to make it unusable, but there was still a good selection of stuff that could be returned for warranty:) I don't remember other tool brands coming in, but that's not saying they didn't. Those scrap cars were unloaded fairly quickly.
 

MarvinBerry

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Nuclear waste... Atari 2600 cartridges... all the same. Wouldn't doubt for a second if eons ago people just buried old tools in a landfill.

Handful of years ago people went looking for & dug up a bunch of games that Atari had by rumor dumped into landfill in the early 80s. Made a (imo) cool movie about it. Here's a short clip...


As I think about it, the only Craftsman tools that ever got painted were things for store use only. Like we needed a new bench grinder in the stockroom, or another chest to keep rebuilt ratchets & other stuff on hand... tools that we used to assemble displays. They all got tagged and were NFR = Not For Resale
 
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neophyte

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I doubt there is a steel mill in the world that uses only virgin iron ore or taconite to make steel. Steel doesn’t come out of the ground as steel. It’s iron ore, usually low grade, which is mostly iron bearing rock The low grade ore is often pre processed and converted to taconite on the iron ranges near the mines.

The steel itself is produced in furnaces and rolling mills where the chemistry is altered with heat and alloys.

Not sure where the misinformation that “virgin” steel is somehow superior to steel with recycle content ever came from.

Recycled steel and other metals can have impurities, alloying agents, or plated coatings that may not be good if used in the mix for new steel.
Current processes may allow steel recyclers to thoroughly sort scrap steel by allow, coating, possible contaminents, etc.( although I doubt it’s foolproof), but older methods of recycling steel and other metals were nowhere near as good, which could cause older metal made from recycled allows to be inconsistent, or possibly toxic.
Cadmium, for instance, used to be commonly used as a rust resistant plating on older tools, and it’s not something you might want in a lot of steel allows, and can cause health issues if you just try to burn it off.
I’ve read about tests of old Disston saws were the allows were found to have chrome and or nickel in them, despite chrome and nickel not being in the standard mix Disston used for their saw steel, so the steel likely contained recycled material.
Swedish steel used to be, and may still be known for a low phosphorous content due to a low amount of phosphorous in the Swedish iron ore. When Sweden had Mauser manufacture rifles for the Swedish army, Sweden supplied their own steel, because they considered the Swedish steel better than the German steel Mauser usually used. If the older steel just hot recycled, a higher phosphorous content might be the steel alloy simply because extra steps were not taken to remove the phosphorous.
As far as other alloys go, Beryllium Copper can cause major issues if it turns up in brass and bronze to be recycled, because the Betyllium is toxic to lungs and requires specialized processing.
The Liberty Bell is a good example of recycled metal causing issues.
The alloy used has too much lead in it, which caused the sound of the bell to be off. Sending it back to London wasn’t really a possibility, so it got recast locally in Philadelphia, with extra new brass added to the mix, but still sounded off, it later cracked, probably because the lead caused the alloy to be weaker and more brittle than it should have been. The theory is that the bell was cast using recycled brass in the mix.

New steel may be able to be made to very high quality, controlled alloy standards, but it doesn’t mean it is being made to those standards, particularly if the steel is coming from some place like China.
While there are steel mills capable of producing top quality steel in China, those mills require giant purchases, so a lot of steel comes from smaller mills that probably throw whatever they can get cheaply into the steel mix.
Even Japan got caught making steel that wasn’t up to the specified alloy, and apparently they had been doing it for a decade or something like that.
 

Downwindtracker 2

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Batches of steel, called heat numbers, can vary. When we made wire for the wire rope used on aircraft carriers, we used Japanese steel, but only certain heat numbers. The absolute worst steel we ever used was some Spanish stuff. Even the worst Chinese was better!
 

finn

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The UP, God's country
Recycled steel and other metals can have impurities, alloying agents, or plated coatings that may not be good if used in the mix for new steel.
Current processes may allow steel recyclers to thoroughly sort scrap steel by allow, coating, possible contaminents, etc.( although I doubt it’s foolproof), but older methods of recycling steel and other metals were nowhere near as good, which could cause older metal made from recycled allows to be inconsistent, or possibly toxic.
Cadmium, for instance, used to be commonly used as a rust resistant plating on older tools, and it’s not something you might want in a lot of steel allows, and can cause health issues if you just try to burn it off.
I’ve read about tests of old Disston saws were the allows were found to have chrome and or nickel in them, despite chrome and nickel not being in the standard mix Disston used for their saw steel, so the steel likely contained recycled material.
Swedish steel used to be, and may still be known for a low phosphorous content due to a low amount of phosphorous in the Swedish iron ore. When Sweden had Mauser manufacture rifles for the Swedish army, Sweden supplied their own steel, because they considered the Swedish steel better than the German steel Mauser usually used. If the older steel just hot recycled, a higher phosphorous content might be the steel alloy simply because extra steps were not taken to remove the phosphorous.
As far as other alloys go, Beryllium Copper can cause major issues if it turns up in brass and bronze to be recycled, because the Betyllium is toxic to lungs and requires specialized processing.
The Liberty Bell is a good example of recycled metal causing issues.
The alloy used has too much lead in it, which caused the sound of the bell to be off. Sending it back to London wasn’t really a possibility, so it got recast locally in Philadelphia, with extra new brass added to the mix, but still sounded off, it later cracked, probably because the lead caused the alloy to be weaker and more brittle than it should have been. The theory is that the bell was cast using recycled brass in the mix.

New steel may be able to be made to very high quality, controlled alloy standards, but it doesn’t mean it is being made to those standards, particularly if the steel is coming from some place like China.
While there are steel mills capable of producing top quality steel in China, those mills require giant purchases, so a lot of steel comes from smaller mills that probably throw whatever they can get cheaply into the steel mix.
Even Japan got caught making steel that wasn’t up to the specified alloy, and apparently they had been doing it for a decade or something like that.

Lots of conjecture here. I suggest you spend a couple of winter afternoons doing some serious searching on steelmaking processes. Most of the google references are rather superficial, but will give you a general feel for the various steel making processes employed, and touch on how impurities are removed during the refining process.

If you dig further, some of the references will get into the physical metallurgy, but that discussion is beyond the scope of a hobbiest forum like this.
 

PugetDude

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Lots of conjecture here. I suggest you spend a couple of winter afternoons doing some serious searching on steelmaking processes. Most of the google references are rather superficial, but will give you a general feel for the various steel making processes employed, and touch on how impurities are removed during the refining process.

If you dig further, some of the references will get into the physical metallurgy, but that discussion is beyond the scope of a hobbiest forum like this.

+1
Modern steelmaking techniques can produce alloys to very precise tolerances from remelt, virgin ore, or a combination of the two.

Snapon (and every other tool manufacturer) is purchasing specific grades of steel for their manufacturing operation. they don't have cradle to grave to cradle control over the steel used in their products. They can affect hardness, ductility, and toughness with their forging, heat treating, and quenching processes.
 

seber

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Deep East Tx.
Some years back I was fishing for salmon in an upstate New York river near Niagra Falls. We were fishing under a very old saw blade manufacturer. The bottom of the river was literally paved with rejected saw blades. History is full of that kind of thing. Today there is profit in recycling steel. That was not always the case.
 
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