To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

What is NOT safe to weld?

BMEdoc

Active member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Richmond, VA
OK gents, I did a bit of searching, but have a hard time finding a comprehensive list. For those of us that are new to it, and haven't taken any courses, what materials are not safe to weld? I'm not talking about the obvious (gas cylinders, compressed tanks, wiring, etc)... I'm talking about the actual material itself that is being welded.

Most of us are aware of common items that shouldn't be, like galvanized. Also, I'm sure everyone knows about the brake cleaner/phosgene story. I recently heard that grade 8 hardware shouldn't be either.. not just because of the strength issue, but the fumes that result.

So... what other materials are unsafe to weld because of the fumes they give off?
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

JSGAuto

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 29, 2009
Messages
741
Location
Northern NJ
I can't imagine zinc coated hardware being good to inhale.

Otherwise, cleaned off....its just heat treated alloy steel.
 
OP
B

BMEdoc

Active member
Joined
Jun 16, 2011
Messages
34
Location
Richmond, VA
welded plenty of grade 8 hardware..... where did you hear that from?

It was posted on another online forum (whose members I don't trust nearly as much as those here)... but the "fact" made logical sense when I thought about it, and wondered if there were other materials that I should be worried about.
 

zkling

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 23, 2007
Messages
16,939
Common metals to watch out for..

Galvanized --> Zinc issue
Brass --> Zinc issue
Some stainless --> Hexavalent chromium
 

Zeke

Well-known member
Joined
Aug 13, 2009
Messages
17,176
Location
Long Beach CA, the sewer by the sea.
What welding process? You shouldn't breathe the smoke from SMAW. But, that might be obvious. Since TIG is clean, it's some of the stuff you can't see. Best practice is to have no wind but plenty of ventilation. Fumes rise with heat, so stand off to the side.
 

Tscott

Well-known member
Joined
Oct 17, 2006
Messages
1,484
Location
Keystone Heights, FL.
What welding process? You shouldn't breathe the smoke from SMAW. But, that might be obvious. Since TIG is clean, it's some of the stuff you can't see. Best practice is to have no wind but plenty of ventilation. Fumes rise with heat, so stand off to the side.

Used to work as a mechanic in a bowling center when I was in college. We had a workshop in the back no bigger than 20'x8'. I used to stick weld back there all the time. I was too stupid at the time to realize the reason I got headaches was from the smoke. Oh well, live and learn.

Tom
 

Kevin54

MEMBER EMERITUS
Joined
Jan 12, 2005
Messages
29,341
Location
Urbana, Ohio
You shouldn't be breathing the fumes off of anything that you are welding. It's not always possible, but anytime that you can rig up something so you won't be breathing the fumes the better. If you do a lot of welding in your garage or wherever, then spend a little money and rig up a vacuum tube that will draw the fumes in.

The only reason I say this is for one, my dad ended up with COPD and emphysema. The other reason, and I really don't know anything about it but it is called "Pick's Disease". From what has been told to me from my neighbors wife. According to her, the doctors told her that all of the years of welding that her husband did, contributed to the disease. Her husband was a welder where I worked. Most welding was done in a closed room of maybe 12'x12', but had ventilation tubes to draw the fumes out.

As far as the Pick's Disease, Dave (his name) started out with small memory lapse. It amounted to about the same thing as everyone experiences from time to time. Forgetting someone's name, forgetting what you were talking about, and so on. It progressed into him forgetting what he was doing, and progressed to the point that he had a hard time with speech, then with a hard time communicating what he was trying to convey as far as instructions. In a few months time, he progressed to the point that he could no longer work. I would be in the garage and he would show up out of nowhere. On day, we come in from working out in the front yard, walked into the house and there stood Dave in our kitchen. Another time we were sitting watching TV and Dave walked in to our family room. Each and every time, we had to call his wife and she would leave work to come and get him.

One day we heard his a call come across the scanner of a man walking down the road with a rifle. The cops went to investigate and it was Dave. He walked into the Fairgrounds to the Flea Market that weekend, bought a BB gun and was walking home with it. When the cops pulled up and told him to drop it, he raised the gun. Not being able to communicate, the cops pulled their guns. Luckily, one of the officers pulled up and knew Dave from Church. It could have been ugly.

As the disease progressed, it was really sad. This man that used to be a Pastor had been reduced to the mentality of a 1 year old. He would show up in my garage, he would be drooling, there were times that he showed up and he had **** himself. Numerous times he would leave the house at night and be walking down the road totally ****. His wife finally had to put him into a care facility. It wasn't too long after that, that he passed away.

Like I said, I don't know about whether the welding fumes caused it or not, other than what I was told by his wife. Also after he passed away, they did change things around the shop so any welding was not in a confined area. You can take it for what it is, but if it were me, and the older I get, the more conscientious I am about chemicals, whether breathing fumes, or by body contact. I keep latex gloves in the garage, I have 3M respirators, I have shop safety glasses everywhere and just basically take a lot of precautions way more than I used to.

Here are a few site from a quick search explaining some of the hazards of welding and fumes.

http://www.toxicweldingrodfumes.com/
http://www.welding-rod-dangers.com/exposure/exposure.htm
http://www.cdc.gov/niosh/pel88/welding.html
http://www.everlastgenerators.com/welding-diseases-and-hazards.php
http://www.asse.org/practicespecialties/articles/weldingfumes.php
 
Last edited:

NASTYZEN

Well-known member
Joined
Jun 11, 2010
Messages
2,823
Location
St-Colomban,Que. Canada
I weld Magnesium every so often. No problem with fire. The danger is with mag shavings or swarf. Don't put water on it if it catches fire!!

Don't weld Plutonium or Uranium I guess.:dunno:
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!

Kracin

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
1,666
Location
Omaha, NE
Why? We used to weld up the tanks all the time on the fuel trucks, have done many gas tanks also. as long as they are purged they are safe.


i would say purged, and cleaned of any residue or anything else that might give off some fumes.

in general, unless you are a pro and have access to every tool necessary to get it prepped right, then don't ever do it unless you want to make a big explosion possible.
 

MoonRise

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 5, 2010
Messages
4,030
Location
NJ
General Rule #1 :

If you don't KNOW what you are doing, don't do it!!!!!

As to 'coatings' on metal that is being welded, let's see :

- zinc

- cadmium

-chromium (also present in stainless steel and some alloy steels)
 

0.511MeV

Well-known member
Joined
May 25, 2011
Messages
421
Don't weld Plutonium or Uranium I guess.:dunno:

Why not? Welding is certainly a method that can be used for joints in those metals.

To the OP, professionally or DIY? Professionally, with properly engineered safety systems, procedures, and PPE, I would imagine just about anything that can be welded can be welded safely. That doesn't mean that accidents don't happen, clearly they do.
 

laser3kw

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 17, 2012
Messages
7,276
Location
northen IL
Beryllium copper. Bad stuff.
been there, welded that. ALWAYS have a positive flow ventilator pulling the fumes away from you.
Like others have said, if it has a coating, -paint, plating etc,, do not inhale the fumes.
But a positive air flow across the weld area will blow away the shielding gas an ruin your weld
55 gallon drums with contents unknown.
.
lost a great guy to that. AND he was an experienced welder. Drum ignited and drove the cutting torch into is forehead.Barrel had been around for months, both bungs open to the air, barrel empty.
 
Last edited:

superspec

Well-known member
Joined
Nov 28, 2011
Messages
2,172
Location
WM louisiana
in a pretty big performance shop in texas they use non chlorinated brake cleaner to wipe down material before welding. when i saw that i immediately stepped out of the fab room because of the whole brake clean story. is non chlorinated safe to use?
 

Kracin

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
1,666
Location
Omaha, NE
wheels with tires on them. even with the valve stem out they can still explode

that is a horrible horrible video. it's so unrealistic....

2+ minutes of continual heat applied? 1000 degrees of heat? and the description says that it will happen even with the valve stem removed. video is set up. just like a stupid show a while ago on speeding where they told someone that they would hit the car in front of them if they followed even somewhat close, then set up a demonstration where they had a guy go 55 mph, and then slam on the brakes when he got 3 car lengths from...... a bunch of carboard boxes... dumb.
 

Wi Fire 10

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 12, 2012
Messages
109
Location
Appleton, Wi
Stay away from galvanized steel, painted steel, rims with tires mounted on them, and fuel tanks or any compressed gas tank/cylinder.
 

CreekWV

Active member
Joined
Jan 18, 2012
Messages
34
that is a horrible horrible video. it's so unrealistic....

2+ minutes of continual heat applied? 1000 degrees of heat? and the description says that it will happen even with the valve stem removed. video is set up.

I saw about 12 seconds of heat. Then it pulls up and away.
The description of the video mentions that the weld started a fire on the bead of the tire, and it continued to burn, using the inflation air in the tire for combustion.
 

Kracin

Well-known member
Joined
Mar 25, 2013
Messages
1,666
Location
Omaha, NE
I saw about 12 seconds of heat. Then it pulls up and away.
The description of the video mentions that the weld started a fire on the bead of the tire, and it continued to burn, using the inflation air in the tire for combustion.


ok true, but do you have an explanation as to why they started the tire at 90 psi... more than double the normal fill pressure for a standard tire? think it has anything to do with making sure theres enough oxygen to burn in the tire for it to get that dangerous? i think so.
 

A_Pmech

Well-known member
Joined
May 8, 2007
Messages
8,002
Location
IL
ok true, but do you have an explanation as to why they started the tire at 90 psi... more than double the normal fill pressure for a standard tire? think it has anything to do with making sure theres enough oxygen to burn in the tire for it to get that dangerous? i think so.

That's a real truck tire, not a pickup truck tire. Standard inflation pressure is around 120 PSI.

Even in a car tire at 35 PSI there's plenty of oxygen available to cause a combustion-related explosion.
 

zcar751

Well-known member
Joined
Apr 15, 2013
Messages
837
Location
Knoxville, TN
ok true, but do you have an explanation as to why they started the tire at 90 psi... more than double the normal fill pressure for a standard tire? think it has anything to do with making sure theres enough oxygen to burn in the tire for it to get that dangerous? i think so.

Commercial truck tires are filed to between 110 and 130 psi. The heat from the welding damages the tire bead the heat sinks across the rim. The bead starts to fail around 250 degrees. I didn't have any sound on the video but there is no way the tire would blow if the valve stem were removed.

All metals pose some level of hazard and require some level of ventilation or respirators. Any plated metal more than six years old is likely plated with hexavalent chromium which is a known cancer causing product.

The main takeaway should be don't breath the fumes because they can kill you. Don't put heat to anything under pressure. And for gods sake never well on any that held a flammable liquid or gas unless you have been properly trained on the correct procedures.:rocker:
 
To avoid these ads, REGISTER NOW!
Top Bottom