What is the best surge outlet protector

[Teken]

The TelCo installs an interface block at the house. There should be a ground wire from that box to a ground rod. There is a voltage arrester installed between that ground and the incoming lines. There are may different styles. An incoming power surge may find it's way to ground through electronic equipment to the TelCo protection ground. Usually destroying the equipment that forms the path.

Alright, now that is what I mean plain English. This I understand and have noted that this is in place. They have clamped the telco side directly to the ground wire that is next to my main panel.

Regardless, I have also installed a surge arrestor in-line at the NIB. I fully understand it's only as good as its ground. But, that isn't anything I can change myself, or on the cheap.

As I stated previously I know there are limits, draw backs, short comings in all that we do. But, to simply do nothing in my opinion is plain stupid and with out common sense.

I do appreciate everyone's feed-back, insight, and clarification even if it is not the question posed about alternative vendors for the electrical outlets that serve as a surge arrestor.

Should anyone have more information, details, or direct links please do chime in.

All in all great information for those who want to know, and want to know more . . .

Regards

EVIL Teken . . .

 

[Torque1st]

U R welcome. There is a ton of interesting reading out there on the web. Add telephone, telco, or POTS (Plain Old Telephone Service) to your search terms to find items of interest.

Lightning protection, surge suppression, etc are full of "black art"...

 

[westom]

Regardless, I have also installed a surge arrestor in-line at the NIB. I fully understand it's only as good as its ground. But, that isn't anything I can change myself, or on the cheap.

Nothing in-line is earthed - therefore ineffective. Your telco already installed sufficient protection (inside an NID – not NIB) making your in-line protector even more useless.

Nobody else installs earth ground. You and only you are responsible for providing that ground. Only you can upgrade, change, or install it. Code requires that you install it or have it installed. Ground must be installed so that a surge protector might do something useful. Ground also essential for other human safety functions.

In a rare event, that homeowner also ignored his ground. So an electrical fault used his gas meter as an electrical conductor. Fortunately nobody was home when it exploded. Just like that homeowner, only you are responsible for inspecting and (if necessary) installing earth ground - for both transistor safety and for human safety. That choice (to do it or ignore it) is only your responsibility. Something you must inspect, upgrade, change or install; making “on the cheap” an irrelevant statement.

 

[Teken]

Where I live modifying, touching, the ground strap which connects to the main service panel can only be serviced by the power company.

I cannot install, modify, or alter this to the building. . . That may be the case in some locals, states, countries, but not here. Yes, the NID thanks for clarifying that for me.

With respect to the surge arrestor to the telco side, it is indeed grounded to the main panel. I hope that clarifies some of the above information for those who want to know.

EVIL Teken . . .

 

[westom]

Where I live modifying, touching, the ground strap which connects to the main service panel can only be serviced by the power company.

The electric company is only responsible for service up to their meter. In some locations, they are not even responsible for the drop to that meter. You are responsible for everything after the meter. If you do not personally fix it, then your - not the electric company - hires and pays for the electrician. In legal terms, that electrician is your agent - does not work or paid by the utility. And only you are responsible for the earth ground.

They own the electric meter. You own the pan that meter is mounted in. And you own (and are responsible for) wires from the meter pan into the house - including the earth ground.

Where as the 'whole house' protector and its required earth ground are your responsibility - the secondary protection system. The electric company is responsible for your primary surge protection system. Neither you nor your electrician can fix the primary protection system. But you should inspect what is also necessary to protect your household appliances:
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

Appreciate the only component that must always exist in and defines each protection layer - single point earth ground. It’s no black art. The problem: so many are educated by advertising. Never learned a well proven bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

For secondary protection – the same earth ground that only you are responsible for to also protect family members.

 

[westom]

With respect to the surge arrestor to the telco side, it is indeed grounded to the main panel.

The main panel is not earth ground. Earth ground is the electrode that the main panel also must connect to.

Effective protection: no sharp wire bends from the telco NID to earth ground. Each ground wire is separate until all meet at that earthing electrode. No splices. No ground wire inside metallic conduit. Even the cable and satellite dish ground wires (no protector required) also connect to the same earth ground. How long is that connection from NID to earth electrode. Should be less than 10 feet. Every foot shorter means even better protection.

These are concept that 'exceed' code requirements so that earth can also provide surge protection (transistor safety). Code is only concerned with human safety.

Wire every foot shorter and every increase in a single point ground system means an even larger surge will not get inside the house. Appreciate that wire length (not thickness) is a critical parameter. Even sharp wire bends make wire electrically longer (for surges). If a ground wire goes up over the foundation and down to earth, then too long, too many sharp bends, and not separated from other wires. That ground wire should go through the foundation and down to earth. Another example of how to 'exceed' code requirements.

 

[Torque1st]

My main panel had the typical #6 solid wire connection to a water pipe ground at the service entrance. There must be 30' of wire in the circuit which makes it ineffective for surges. It is installed correctly per the NEC but it has many sharp turns and and goes upward from the main panel to run along the sill plate. When I installed my gas tube arresters I installed a 12' 1/2" dia copper coated ground rod directly below the meter can. I also ran a new ground connection straight down to the rod with no sharp bends. I also used a #6 stranded wire from the flat plate arresters to this ground wire.

Remember:
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
Arthur C. Clarke, "Profiles of The Future", 1961 (Clarke's third law)
English physicist & science fiction author (1917 - )

 

[westom]

My main panel had the typical #6 solid wire connection to a water pipe ground at the service entrance.

Water pipe ground is no longer sufficient for earth ground since about 1990 code. Whereas the water pipe can be used for earthing, it must also be supplemented by any other defined earth ground that is always sufficient.

The most common solution are ten foot copper coated ground rods just outside the service entrance. Then a bare copper 6 AWG wire goes out the breaker box (neutral bus bar) directly to that earth ground. All sold in Lowes, et al. Each probably costs less than a sledge hammer.

All other incoming utilties (telephone, cable, satellite dish) also must be earthed to that 1990 code required ground.

If any utility is installed incorrectly, Duke Energy offers a kludge solution to make a single point earth ground for everything:
http://tinyurl.com/yefm8n9 or
http://www.duke-energy.com/indiana-business/products/power-quality/tech-tip-08.asp

Appreciate the principle that changed. No pipes can carry electricity. Connections to pipes are only to remove electricity. Pipes are 'bonded' to the breaker box so that an electric fault does not cause a plumbing user to be harmed. No ground to a water faucet is acceptable - as so many satellite dish installers do.

And earth ground must be common to all incoming utilities.

Generally, code called for 25 ohms minimum. Since most electricians do not have equipment to measure that resistance, then most electricians simply install two ground rods spaced apart per code. In most cases, those ground rods will provide more than sufficient earthing. But if in poor conductive soils (ie sand), then earthing may require upgrading / expanding.

Connection to cold water pipe must be on the utility side of the water meter. At least 5 feet from where the pipe enters (per code). And best located so that any current to earth need not pass through any lead solder joints. In one location, lightning even caused that lead joint to melt and disconnect - flooded the basement. I did not believe it. I had to see it for myself. Another lesson to share.

 

[Torque1st]

Codes change and vary by location, my place was built in '62. It would be hard to get to the utility side of the water meter since it is about 35' from the house and about 6' deep. In a perfect world everything would be upgraded every time code was changed. In the real world we do as good as we can.

 

[westom]

Codes change and vary by location, my place was built in '62.

National codes still apply. Only reason why your home need not meet current codes - grandfathering. Any changes would require upgrading to new codes. But since earthing is also important to appliance protection, then simple and inexpensive earthing upgrade (ie two ten foot ground rods) is always recommended.

Local codes only expand (enhance) National codes. For example, a local code here required all steel bathtubs to be connected 6 AWG back to the breaker box. A human safety requirement that was not required by the National code; local code exceed (do not eliminate) what the National code requires.

Your water is (electrically) 'no meter exists'. Does not change anything. That safety ground must bond where water pipe exits from earth. And is still not sufficient for earthing to meet 1990 code. #1 reason for upgrading earthing (not wall receptacle safety grounds) to post 1990 code is for surge protection.

 

[Torque1st]

Thanks! The original main panel ground is bonded at the water service entrance right where it exits the basement wall. If I ever upgrade the main panel I will add a second ground rod outside.

 

[Vinko]

Thread bump

\ In my experience the plug in devices and the surge suppression outlets are worthless.

I noticed McMaster-Carr has receptacles that are hospital grade surge supressors for machines that are plugged in to monitor patients. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that these are designed so equipment doesn't fail in serious conditions. Am I wrong?

 

[Teken]

Thread bump



I noticed McMaster-Carr has receptacles that are hospital grade surge supressors for machines that are plugged in to monitor patients. I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that these are designed so equipment doesn't fail in serious conditions. Am I wrong?

I just found a place that sells the Levitron models for a fantastic price! The unit has both LED indicator, and buzzer which I really needed.

The specs are still far below any of the stand alone plug in types but this is just layering and added insurance for the just in case.

Better to have and not need . . . Then, to need and not have . . .

 

[westom]

The specs are still far below any of the stand alone plug in types but this is just layering and added insurance for the just in case.

Why did you ignore what was posted?

Appreciate the only component that must always exist in and defines each protection layer - single point earth ground. It’s no black art. The problem: so many are educated by advertising. Never learned a well proven bottom line: a protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

Where is the 'less than 10 foot' connection from that protector to earth? It is layering when, well, what defines each layer? Earth ground. What happens when a protector does not make that short connection to earth? It does not protect from typically destructive surges. Sometimes it can make surge damage easier. Where does energy dissipate? Always have an answer for that question.

If I sell a bar of soap by calling it a protector, then you know it does surge protection? Why do you think a surge protector does surge protection? Because words sound alike? No 'magic box' does surge protection. Not one. None. Nada. Either a 'magic box' connects hundreds of thousands of joules harmlessly to earth. Or that surge is inside hunting for earth destructively via appliances. No plug-in protector averts that hunt.

Every protection layer is only defined by single point ground. Defined above was the 'secondary' protection layer - a 'whole house' protector connected short ('less than 10 feet') to single point earth ground. Also inspect your 'primary' surge protection layer. What to inspect in the 'primary' layer?
http://www.tvtower.com/fpl.html

In every case, an effective protector always connects short to earth ground. In every case, only the earth ground absorbs those hundreds of thousands of joules. In every case, no earth ground means no effective protection. That wall receptacle protector will need protection only provided by a ‘whole house’ protector. Leviton and others provide it. You only need one for everything including bathroom GFCIs, dishwasher, and that AC plug protector.

 

[babzog]

The under the meter unit is your best protection. It will NOT protect against a direct lightning strike. There are lightning rods available to help protect the house. In my experience the plug in devices and the surge suppression outlets are worthless.

Install surge suppressors on the generator also.

My Dad is an EET and I asked him about this very thing a couple of years back. I wanted to protect the home theater and computers after I put in a tower (lightning rod) for wireless broadband and to mount the satellite dish. His company owns and sells many of the available surge suppression systems out there.

I was thinking of the meter installed unit, supplemented with a rackount type solution with plugin surge suppression modules for cat5, phone, coax (ie: cable or satellite). The logic being, anything entering the house will be protected prior to distribution.

His advice was to skip the meter unit due to cost - nearly $1000, which must be replaced after it's tripped to maintain full protection. You also need to arrange with your power co. to disconnect the power prior to hookup. You might only get one free disconnect / yr so between this cost and the unit cost if it's tripped multiple times... $$$. He also indicated that the meter unit will not protect you from surges and transients generated within your home, which might pose a greater threat than anything on the main line.

His advice for the average homeowner was to simply install plugin wall surge strips such as those from Belkin. The better ones offer generous connected equipment warranties, so your gear is well covered in case it's hit.

Oh, and the tower is grounded at all three legs to three rods, each bonded to the other in a ring, which is itself bonded to the house. Aside from driving more rods in a star pattern around the tower and along the run to the house, I don't think I can do much better. The gear on the tower is protected through surge suppression modules (broadband) or ground blocks (satellite) at both the tower base and house entrance. I don't think these means would offer much protection in case of a direct hit, but I doubt much would.

 

[westom]

I was thinking of the meter installed unit, supplemented with a rackount type solution with plugin surge suppression modules for cat5, phone, coax (ie: cable or satellite). The logic being, anything entering the house will be protected prior to distribution.

His advice was to skip the meter unit due to cost - nearly $1000, which must be replaced after it's tripped to maintain full protection. You also need to arrange with your power co. to disconnect the power prior to hookup.

Somebody is feeding on ********. Any protector that fails after a surge is a complete scam. Protectors, grossly undersized to fail on surges too small to cause appliance damage, are therefore recommended by a majority. Protedtor failure gets the naive to recommend it. Effective protection means nobody knew a surge existed. Instead, earth one 'whole house' protector to make even direct lightning strikes irrelevant.

Assume everyone (even your dad and me) is lying until you have numbers. A minimally sized 'whole house' protector is 50,000 amps. The typical direct lightning strike is 20,000 amps. Waste no money on protectors (such as Belkin) that do not even claim protection in their numeric specs. Don't take my word for it. Put forth those numbers. Where does Belkin claim any protection (other than myths in sales brochures)?

First, effective protection is provided by companies without soiled reputations (such as Belkin or Monster). Effective 'whole house' protectors are sold by General Electric, ABB, Siemens, Intermatic, Leviton, and Square D. One from Cutler-Hammer sells in Lowes and Home Depot for less than $50. And again, you always view its numeric specs. Effective protectors for AC mains start at about 50,000 amps. Effective protector means surges for decades without failure. But those protectors do not have the massive profits to pay for lies in advertising.

Second, no protector does protection. Not one. Either a protector makes the always required low impedance (ie 'less than 10 foot') connection to single point ground. Or it is not effective. Not resistance - low impedance. Many electrical techs never learn about impedance. Why are 'whole house' protectors so obviously effective? See that dedicated wire for the short connection to earth ground (not safety ground - earth ground)? Major difference between that and the Belkin ... that does not even list protection in its numeric specs.

Third, anyone who discusses protection must always define where energy dissipates. Wire impedance is that important. A lightning strike down the street can be a direct strike to every household appliance. Either that energy dissipates harmlessly outside the building. Or that energy hunts for earth destructively via appliances. Only you make that choice. Nothing inside a building - even a $2000 protector - stops that hunt. For over 100 years. And in every facility that cannot have damage. Everywhere that effective surge protection is installed. The most important 'system' component is "single point earth ground". Some protection systems have no protectors. But must always have earthing. Every one of those four words has serous technical significance.

A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. The Belkin obviously does not claim protection. 1) No dedicated wire for that always required earthing connection. 2) Belkin will not even discuss earth ground. Why discuss something that well only harm profits?

Protection is always - did I include the word always - about where energy dissipates. Did someone recommend a protector and not discuss where energy dissipates? Then he is probably promoting a scam. No protector absorbs hundreds of thousands of joules. No protector makes energy magically disappear as the Belkin claims. . Nothing on the outlet is earthed. Therefore it does not even claim protection in its numeric specs.

One 'whole house' protector, if connected short (low impedance) to earth, means hundreds of thousands of joules do not dissipate destructively inside the building. It is that simple. About $1 per protected appliance. Every protector is only as effective as its earth ground. No earth ground - ie Belkin – means no effective protection.

 

[Teken]

The typical direct lightning strike is 20,000 amps.

I'm sorry but I am not aware of one person who has proven that a lightning strike is always 20,000 amps or less.

No one . . .

Unless you, or someone has magically been around to capture the readings of every strike to ground, rod, or what have you.

You can not state that a strike only generates 20,000 amps. Doing so is just what you're pushing on here, to not believe in the hype.

As I do believe many of the same things you have stated to be factual and true.

(ground rods upgraded with the help of a electrician) all of this will not in by itself remove the threat or damage that a lightning strike will have on electronics and electrical devices.

 

[cowboyjosh]

Just remember what I always tell customers when I sell surge protection equipment, "surge and lightning protection is allot like birth control, you don't know when its WORKED, but you sure as hell know when it DIDN'T".

 

[Vinko]

Assuming the surge supression devices don't work, I was still intrigued by the warranty that places like Belkin offers (up to $75,000). Has anyone here ever actually collected on a warranty?

 

[Vinko]

Why did you ignore what was posted?

I don't want to be an *******. When Teken noted earlier in this thread that he didn't follow you, I wonder if it wasn't because though you seem to my untrained mind to have a lot of useful things to say, you don't really say it in a clear or coherent way. Though I can't judge the accuracy of what appears to be very informative postings (and very generous ones given their length), I think it's reasonable to note that it's very hard to follow your train of thought, because your writing is sort of wandering and largely incoherent to a lay audience.

 

[Vinko]

I just found a place that sells the Levitron models for a fantastic price! The unit has both LED indicator, and buzzer which I really needed.

Of course you're not going to reveal the source

 

[gatchel]

If you guys are interested in a company who knows surge you should give these guys a look:

http://www.ditekcorp.com/

I have used their product for about 13 years in different applications and have not had a problem. There are instances where we had problems on low voltage and 120v devices, installed their product, and the problems and equipment failures went away. Nothing protects from a direct hit, obviously, but i feel that the product works well.

I have had one of their WH-8 setups installed since we purchased our house in 2002. The only evidence that they work is that about a year ago my neighbor lost a computer and a TV during an electrical storm. I had no problems in my house. We are off the same pole transformer. I know this isn't 100% proof of protection but it was enough for me.

 

[Teken]

Of course you're not going to reveal the source

I will share the link for all the members once I get my order filled . . .

 

[Teken]

I don't want to be an *******. When Teken noted earlier in this thread that he didn't follow you, I wonder if it wasn't because though you seem to my untrained mind to have a lot of useful things to say, you don't really say it in a clear or coherent way. Though I can't judge the accuracy of what appears to be very informative postings (and very generous ones given their length), I think it's reasonable to note that it's very hard to follow your train of thought, because your writing is sort of wandering and largely incoherent to a lay audience.

I understood the gist of his information, it was some of the finer points that were not so clear.

Some of the largest facilities I work in from hydro electric, to telco all use and apply the very same techniques I have employed in a much smaller scale.

Earth ground rods, secondary surge arrestor, UPS, and various filters in place. Every person I have ever spoken with who was the primary care taker of the building has explained their reasons as to their layered approach and how it affords more protection than simply relying upon a ground rod.

If you take any piece of electronics and push too much current through it, it will smoke this is fact.

You push to much voltage through a device, it will smoke this is fact.

You have too much drop in voltage, the current draw will increase in the device, and then it will smoke this is fact.

At the end of the day someone could simply say just up your insurance etc and leave it be . . .

In my mind that is just plain dumb, silly, and with out for thought as to what will happen . . .

There is a thread in the free parking which clearly shows everyone what can happen, as it happend to me this summer.

The final house count was 217 houses from 17 home builders were all affected by this massive strike . . .

The most damaging was a 400 amp service panel that blew out, and the entire meter on the outside was missing!

 

[westom]

I don't want to be an *******. When Teken noted earlier in this thread that he didn't follow you, I wonder if it wasn't because though you seem to my untrained mind to have a lot of useful things to say, you don't really say it in a clear or coherent way.

Relevant are many fundamental electrical concepts that some do not know. I cannot possibly post every concept. Was that post not already too long? An obvious reply is to ask questions. With basic electrical concepts, everything should have been obvious. Which parts are unknown to you? Ask and that concept will be provided.

Clearly the posts were too long and detailed. And could have easily been five times longer included details of other basic concepts. Of the maybe 35 different concepts not posted, I expect you to ask about the five you did not yet learn. Which five? I will not know until you ask.

I know many did not grasp it all. But when the statement from generations of well published science defined lightning as **typically** 20,000 amps, then why would post nasty denials? And why would he completely ignore the word "typically"? So that he could attack and deny rather than ask and learn. He ignored what was written and then attacked with an accusatory post. Without knowing how many amps are in typical lightning strikes, he just knows a statistical average number must be wrong? That is simply the naive insulting the knowledgeable.

For example, a 200 watt transmitter connects to a long wire antenna. One part of that antenna will be at 100 volts. Another will be at zero volts. How can so much voltage difference exist on the same wire? A basic electrical concept that many would understand and others may not. And a concept that is defined only after I learn that you did not know it.

Electricity is always different at two ends of a wire. How different? Depends on the type of electricity and other parameters. That difference is critical to making protection effective.

Why did that post define single point ground and short (ie 'less than 10 foot') connections to earth? Reasons why an antenna has major voltage differences on the same wire are also why surge protectors must always make that short connection to single point earth ground.

Many are only educated by retail myths. Those urban myths also may have made previous posts confusing. Which retail myth must be unlearned? I will not know until questions are asked without Teken's accusatory tone.

For over 100 years, protectors were always as effective as their earth ground. No earth ground meant an ineffective protector. Every protection layer is defined only by its single point earth ground. Concepts defined even in an 1800s patent. Even demonstrated by Ben Franklin's lightning rods in 1752. I either assume you understand how Franklin rods work. Or post that relevant knowledge after you ask.

Read manufacturer specs for that Leviton receptacle protector. Where do numbers define protection from typically destructive surges? Where do hundreds of thousands of joules dissipate? How many joules in that Leviton spec? Hundreds to make hundreds of thousands just disappear? Near zero protection that may also completely ignore the typically destructive surge current. Since it has virtually no earth ground, then it is not part of any protection layer.

How many popular urban myths were just challenged? Protection is always about where energy dissipates. Every question should also include that reality. A protector is only as effective as its earth ground. Fundamental knowledge that I hope you always knew, or would ask to learn.

 

[Teken]

There is no where in my post where I have accused you of anything. I have simply questioned you on the data you have offered here.

As I have stated also in previous post: Many of the things you have stated with regards to how best to dissipate the vast amount of energy from a lightning strike or from man made events I agree with.

The area which I do not agree upon is that you insist upon stating that simply having a ground rod will protect everything electronic.

This is simply untrue, and is not based on fact . . .

If I take a simple light bulb and turn up the voltage from 120 vac, and apply 1000 vac is your position that this light bulb will be alright?

No, because it will blow out its element. It is obvious that time plays a huge factor, as if one was to apply 1000 volts for 1/10000000000000000000 nothing would occur.

Apply the same voltage for 1 minute ( assuming it could sustain this voltage ) it would soon explode and cease to operate.

No ground rod will protect this simple scenario, nothing . . . As it has no barring on the voltage going to ground, the voltage must pass through what ever device, then go to ground, it does not go around it.

A ground rod will not not help anyone who experiences a under voltage condition ( brown out, lull, etc ) only a regulated power supply such as a UPS will provide such protection.

Isolation, on site I have several pieces of gear which use opto-couplers which are impervious to voltage / current changes and can not be a cause of electrocution.

Why? Because it is optically isolated and transfer no voltage / current to the other side very similar but different from a transformer which uses induction of magnetically isolated coils / windings which protects one side from the other.

At the end of the day I have no qualms with your promotion of proper earth grounding etc. What I don't accept is that I and everyone else around the world should simply rely on a ground rod to protect their property when there are millions of people alot smarter than me and you who have proven that a layered approach using

1. Grounding

2. Isolation

3. Filtering

4. UPS

Have proven it is the most effective if not the most practical way to reduce the massive power of mother nature.