What is the code for NG lines

[manrmark]

I know it might vary from state to state, but I would think it should be pretty much the same everywhere.

I had a pole building built
I'm insulating the wall and covering them with sheetrock
I'm contracting out the heating system. I'm having a modine hot dog installed

My question is

What is the code for running NG lines

Specifically

Can the NG line be run inside walls, obviously the line has to come through the wall, can it run for a long distance inside a wall cavity and or can it be run in the enclosed attic space or do the lines have to be exposed?

Thanks
Mark

 

[mrb]

can run inside walls. black iron pipe and fittings, proper pipe dope. Dont use teflon (even the one for gas)

 

[trythis]

Do you mean teflon tape, or dope with teflon, because lots of it has Teflon in it.

 

[manrmark]

If code allowed putting your gas line inside a wall cavity or in an attic Would you do it?

I won't do anything against code, I'm having a contractor do the work, I'm just wondering if this is an option, and would you do it if it's allowed.

Thanks
Mark

 

[carcruse]

If code allowed putting your gas line inside a wall cavity or in an attic Would you do it?

I won't do anything against code, I'm having a contractor do the work, I'm just wondering if this is an option, and would you do it if it's allowed.

Thanks
Mark

It happens quite often where someone has a gas stove in the kitchen, gas fireplace, etc. and finished basement below. Line is enclosed in finished basement ceiling.

 

[manrmark]

Thank You for all of your responces.

Mark

 

[mrb]

can run inside walls. black iron pipe and fittings, proper pipe dope. Dont use teflon (even the one for gas)

oops i menat teflon tape

 

[porschedude996TT]

There is varying code as to having the NG line in the ground, what type, how deep, etc.

I think that all allow for steel gas pipe in the walls and closed area. Couplers are ok, but No unions. Also you can't put the pipe up thru the concrete footing. It needs to be stubbed out thru the wall and then into the earth or overhead to the meter.

 

[nate379]

mrb, where are you sourcing that teflon tape can't be used? I'm guessing it's a local code?

I realize that the white tape can't be used, but the yellow stuff is fine. I have had much better luck getting black pipe to seal with tape vs paste.

 

[therealjakeg]

MRB is right. I work for a nat gas company in the west and you can do what ever you want as long as it holds pressure test. Teflon is for sailors! Dont use it. Good luck

 

[TRDon]

I was told by a friend contractor that you cannot run black pipe with mechanical connections inside a wall or other inaccessable area. He said the only way to make it legal is to sil-phos braise it and use copper lines or unspliced copper. running in the studs, you need to be 1 1/4" back from the face of a stud or use nail on protector plates if less than.

I am in MN

 

[HoosierBuddy]

I was told by a friend contractor that you cannot run black pipe with mechanical connections inside a wall or other inaccessable area. He said the only way to make it legal is to sil-phos braise it and use copper lines or unspliced copper. running in the studs, you need to be 1 1/4" back from the face of a stud or use nail on protector plates if less than.

I am in MN

Uhhh...maybe OK for propane...I recommend against copper for natural gas...as discussed in previous threads.

You can run black pipe in the wall with fittings, but I would only do it as a last resort and MAKE SURE you have a shut off and a union in an accessible point where you can shut it down, break it loose and cap it, if (at some point in the future) it starts leaking, as the "fix" will involve removing the wall. That may take a while, so you'll want to be able to quickly shut off just that portion of your gas system to accomplish the repair.

I would, and have, use fittings in a wall when it was the only way to get where I'm going. Keep the number of fittings to a minimum. Use a high quality pipe sealant (pipe dope) and follow the directions given on the can and you will have amazing success. I prefer "Leak Lock" brand and you will note if you read the can it says to use sealant on both male AND FEMALE threads, allow to tack and then assemble. That takes about 5 times as long to do it that way...but it's 5 times less likely to leak. Unions in a wall are probably a bad idea as the previous poster indicated. They are prone to leaking and sometimes take a lot of torque and some prayer to get seated properly.

The code you are likely looking for is NFPA54 National Fuel Gas Code. You can buy it online at NFPA.org. I think I paid $46 for my copy.

Phil

 

[Falcon67]

MRB is right. I work for a nat gas company in the west and you can do what ever you want as long as it holds pressure test. Teflon is for sailors! Dont use it. Good luck

Alright - then what DO you use? I have been told repeatedly - by plumbers in the business - to use the yellow tape and maybe a touch of dope since all the pipe and fittings you buy are china sourced and fit is iffy. I tried just the dope (all of which seems to have Teflon in it- rated to xxxxPSI, air, gas, etc) on my air lines and they leaked like crazy. Tape - like 6-8 wraps- and a touch of dope was required to seal them up. So - out with it.

 

[Stuart in MN]

It does depend on local codes, and they are different depending on where you live.

I'm in Minneapolis, and all of the old gas piping in my house is threaded black pipe. Most of it is hidden in the walls (in fact, there are still stubs into the walls in most rooms for gas lighting - the house was built in 1913.) Of course, all that stuff pre-dates any current codes. The newer stuff that goes to the furnace and water heater that were installed a couple years ago is all soft copper, and it was inspected and approved.

I think there are several issues with Teflon tape - first, you need to use good quality tape, and then you need to know how to put it on. Too many people just wrap on a big ball of the stuff, and they aren't careful to keep it only on the threads so little bits can eventually come loose inside the pipe.

 

[HoosierBuddy]

Alright - then what DO you use? I have been told repeatedly - by plumbers in the business - to use the yellow tape and maybe a touch of dope since all the pipe and fittings you buy are china sourced and fit is iffy. I tried just the dope (all of which seems to have Teflon in it- rated to xxxxPSI, air, gas, etc) on my air lines and they leaked like crazy. Tape - like 6-8 wraps- and a touch of dope was required to seal them up. So - out with it.

Your question wasn't directed at me, but I know the answer, so let me respond.

It is perfectly acceptable to use gas-rated teflon tape for gas. In fact...that's what they make it for.

Now...the following list is my "OPINIONS" on the subject matter.

1. Teflon tapemakes a much neater joint than pipe dope and it won't stain your clothes, get all over your wrenches or drip onto the floor if you get too much on your brush.

2. Teflon as a pipe dope additive is essentially worthless and the only reason that sealant manufacturers put powdered teflon in their sealants is because there is and has been a preception in the U.S. that Teflon is a miracle cure to whatever ails you and anything that has teflon in it, from frying pans to valve grease, is BETTER...when in fact it isn't. I personnally spoke to a manufacturer of pipe sealant who told me the only reason they add teflon to some of their sealants is because that is what everyone else does and if you want your sealant to sell at a hardware store...you better advertise it has teflon in it.

3. Pipe sealants (pipe dope) are easier to use sucessfully than teflon tape. This is based on my experience. Teflon tape requires greater torque to seal than pipe sealants and is less forgiving in overall application. That's why I personnally much prefer pipe dope over teflon tape. If you can't get pipe sealant to seal, I'd recommend you read the directions on the can and follow them as I stated in my previous post.

4. Using teflon tape and pipe dope is not recommended (at least to my knowledge) by either the people who make teflon tape OR the people who make pipe dope. That being said...it DOES sometimes do the trick.

5. Teflon tape can get sucked into a gas orifice and cause problems. So can a chunk of pipe sealant. I think that issue is a wash when comparing one to the other.

And finally I'd point out that the proper way to fix a pipe fitting that just won't seal is to replace it with a new fitting....not come up with some hair brained (even though I admitted it sometimes works under 4. above) plan to use the "belt and suspenders" approach.

Phil

 

[Falcon67]

Thanks - that clears up a bunch of stuff, such as why you can't just buy pipe dope - it's all Teflon dope. I assumed it was used for lubrication, not so much for sealing. I use tape a lot, and yes you must be careful to wrap the threads and not over the end - screw up, it's cheap just peel it off and try again. Its the same for any use, don't want bits of tape traveling upstream.

All I know is that I used a top brand of pipe sealer on the air lines, followed directions and most of the joints leaked. Several fittings were tossed, it's no big deal to buy an elbow or union now that isn't threaded straight or is so loose you run out of threads before it goes tight. JB Weld works very well on those I conferred with a professional plumber I know and named the items in use, his response was "yep, we get that all the time now thanks to the trash fittings on the market. It's a PITA now to use pre-thread pipe or fittings, not like it used to be." He said they get away from some of that because they cut and thread their own pipe with US made machines and dies, something I can't afford. 6ish wraps of tape and a very light smear of dope fixed all my air line issues.

I'll still have to call in a plumber or gas person to look at the stove issue in the house for a recommendation. It just seems weird that the 80K BTU stove got a 1" line and the 80K central heater was plumbed with a 3/4". They are not 15' from each other off the main line under the house and only about 30' from the meter. The tap I want to use to feed the new stove location is 40' from the meter and is a 3/4 nub.

BTW - this is an old house and every gas outlet has some kind of fitting or fittings buried in the wall.