What makes a Better Pole Barn?

[MagKarl]

Lots of comments in the Morton thread about the better and the cheap pole barns, but not a lot of examples of these "quality" features that justify higher cost. Speaking for the DIY guy that is planning to purchase material or a kit only and build himself, what are the better or "quality" features a guy should be looking for? How to compare packages?

I'm not talking about eaves, cupolas, and wainscot and what I'll call options that make a building look nicer, I'm talking about the materials or building techniques themselves. If you've got pictures of particular features that demonstrate "quality", please share.

I see a lot of differences in metal thickness, solid/laminated posts, truss type and spacing, flat/commercial girts, but I'm sure there are lots of little things that folks don't notice till its pointed out. What are they in your opinion?

 

[jkwilson]

One thing a lot of builders cheap out on is anchoring the posts. I like to pour a pad in the bottom of the hole and let that cure before setting the post. That greatly increases the surface area holding the post up, which can reduce settling.

When you dig the hole, go back and make it bell shaped. That helps prevent frost heave and wind uplift.

Drill a hole crossways in the pole about 6" from the bottom and drive a piece of rebar through it to anchor the pole in the concrete. Mix your concrete with water and pour it in the hole rather than dry-setting. If you aren't putting in a concrete floor, use sonotubes to bring the concrete above grade.

I also treat the post with brush-on wood treatment as extra insurance.

Nothing expensive, but it makes for a more secure and stable building.

 

[kd3pc]

top grade lumber is a plus, that adds $$ when compared to box store quality, or lack there of

correct number and type of fasteners

and the biggest thing is a true construction craftsman, who understands precision, plumb, level, square and flat. Not some hammer *******.

 

[theoldwizard1]

One thing a lot of builders cheap out on is anchoring the posts. I like to pour a pad in the bottom of the hole and let that cure before setting the post. That greatly increases the surface area holding the post up, which can reduce settling.

When you dig the hole, go back and make it bell shaped. That helps prevent frost heave and wind uplift.

I would go one step further. Sonotube with "big foot" adapters on the bottom. They should protrude out of the ground at least 6" and have a J bolt set in the top to secure a Simpson base post bracket. Depending on how many posts you have this will add $1,000-$2,000 in material.

You can save some of that by using on site built-up post (3-2x6). Alternate the crown before nailing them together.

 

[CNGsaves]

A '36 Ford 5 window coupe makes a pole barn better !!!

 

[rburke65]

How about trusses every 24" rather than 8'..... Or 10'.

 

[Rookie2]

My Morton has trusses on 9' centers , That ***** when trying to finish the interior because everything has to be cut and fit .

Condensation from the metal roof, oil canning from snow .

 

[skyjacked84]

after ur poles are set, frame it with 2x6 then attach ur metal to the 2x6s instead of just 3 or 4 2x4s going around the building<a href="http://s53.photobucket.com/user/undgroun_custom/media/IMG952012061895183210_zpse610ea7e.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g49/undgroun_custom/IMG952012061895183210_zpse610ea7e.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo IMG952012061895183210_zpse610ea7e.jpg"/></a>

 

[Nighttrain]

Look for KDAT. Klin dryed after treatment. This is pressure treated lumber but dried. Reduses the twisting etc with normal treated wood that's still wet when you get it. I ordered all mine from Home Depot. It was actually cheaper than what they had in stock. The HD guy could not believe it. My horse pole barn is in my build thread. I used the metal 26g metal which was the same as my garage.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

A '36 Ford 5 window coupe makes a pole barn better !!!

this^^^^^.....lol good one

 

[mrobins297aaa]

one little thing that the guy who did my siding did was to stack all the sheets in one pile and then drill thru all the sheets at once for the screws at 24", 48", 72" an so on......it did two things it made all the horiz holes line up perfectly as you look down the side of the barn and having a pilot hole keeps the metal from binding when installing the screws.

 

[tomroblee]

I think that the answer to your question depends on where you are building. I had a 36' x 48' x10' built several years ago in SW Indiana.

The building was in a rural area with no zoning, building permits, building inspections, etc. The location where I wanted the barn built was a low spot.

For me, getting a quality building (as opposed to a lesser quality building) was mainly a factor of:

1. Lots of crushed stone fill to build up the site.
2. Use of Permacolumns with laminated posts.
3. Engineering for snow loads and wind that exceeded minimum requirements.
4. Specifying how things would be fastened.
5. Specifying lots of reinforcement for the slab.
6. Specifying commercial grade insulated doors because they are stronger.

If I had been building in a different location, a quality building may not have required hauling in a lot of crushed stone (or other site work.) Permacolumns might be a waste of money in some locations--depending on soil conditions and how aggressive the termites are. Many locations will have building permit and inspection requirements that will prevent less than "quality" engineering and/or the use of inappropriate fasteners.

My experience (in my area) was that the various pole barn builders competed very heavily based on the lowest possible price (and probably the lowest possible quality). It took some time to convince them that I was interested more in quality than in low price. Once we reached that understanding, they all seemed to have a good grasp of what "upgrades" made sense for me.

 

[MagKarl]

In my case I'll be needing permits and inspections. Stamped plans will be required. Wind, snow, seismic design parameters, etc. Is it fair to assume that alone will minimize the risk of cutting corners from a design and materials standpoint? I'm not worried about the workmanship aspect as I'll be taking care of that myself.

 

[jkwilson]

In my case I'll be needing permits and inspections. Stamped plans will be required. Wind, snow, seismic design parameters, etc. Is it fair to assume that alone will minimize the risk of cutting corners from a design and materials standpoint? I'm not worried about the workmanship aspect as I'll be taking care of that myself.

There are a lot of corners that can be cut without affecting the permitting process. Some of the choices may make sense. It's all about trade offs between cost and durability.

If you want the most durable building, you'd go with trusses on 2 ft centers. That's done in the north, but in more moderate areas it is overkill. Metal thickness, insulation, gutters, windows, doors etc. can reduce or increase the quality of the build, but only you know if the better stuff is worth the extra money or if going with the cheaper stuff is worth the savings.

 

[OldNeons]

IF I was going with a wood pole building, I would definitely pour a "grade beam" all the way around the bottom to start my walls on, and would use Perma-Columns as suggested above. No matter how you do it, wood in ground is going to rot eventually.....

 

[skyjacked84]

IF I was going with a wood pole building, I would definitely pour a "grade beam" all the way around the bottom to start my walls on, and would use Perma-Columns as suggested above. No matter how you do it, wood in ground is going to rot eventually.....

you can buy post protectors to cover the part of the pole thats into the ground

 

[Crazy68Dart]

I am still contemplating my build, but have been concerned over resale value of a pole style building versus foundation. First I have heard of perma-columns was this thread, but admittedly I was not looking for them either. Are they reinforced (rebar, etc.) in some way? Freezing/thawing takes its tole on everything, the smallest crack/crevasse in concrete will turn into a blown out mess if water gets in and freezes. How do these columns hold up?

Are the pole "sleeves" helpful or a gimmick? The spot where the shop will be is low, mainly because the lot needs graded properly. Fill will need to be brought in, but our lot is at the lower part of the allotment and water usually only runs down hill. I am planning on good drainage, etc. around the exterior, but these non-wood columns are interesting.

 

[tomroblee]

For information on Perma-Column products see the permacolumn.com website. Click on "Downloads" at the bottom of the page.

 

[Crazy68Dart]

For information on Perma-Column products see the permacolumn.com website. Click on "Downloads" at the bottom of the page.

Pretty interesting. Anyone actually used these? What is the pricing?

Edit... found the online store. Thanks.

 

[Highbeam]

My non-required but real glad I did it thing was to put housewrap on under the metal.

Truss spacing has nothing to do with quality, you just use stronger trusses and perlins for the strength with wider spacing. I used 12' spacing on my poles.

I am also really glad I roofed the barn with sheeting and composition roofing to match the house. Also, the overhangs of 2 feet on all sides to keep the weather off.

You don't need these fancy post protector jive. In Olympia you have good soils anyway but whether the poles last 30 years or 100 years is of no concern to most of us. The poles will likely sink before they rot.

 

[larry_g]

`I worked with these people, http://www.mwbsc.com/ to put together my 'kit' . Spent time with them designing the building and learning some of the finer points of a pole building. They also got the permit for me even though I did the building. I did not want to have to justify to the permitting office any of the design details. They provided all the engineering drawings and the kit came with a fairly detailed instruction book on how to make all the joints and details work. I was very happy with the quality of materials delivered. The wood was straight and the finish materials were better graded materials. The doors were good doors and they would supply most anything you want. Looking back I would have had them erect the building.

That said I'm not sure that they work as far north as you are but I do recommend them.

lg
no neat sig line

 

[rieferman]

You don't need these fancy post protector jive. In Olympia you have good soils anyway but whether the poles last 30 years or 100 years is of no concern to most of us. The poles will likely sink before they rot.

If you have perfect soil conditions, I would agree that posts can last a long time. However, for a few hundred extra dollars (and I mean, total... not per post) you can make "a long time" basically equal "forever". For peace of mind, resale, to guard against the unknown underground spring that might be present etc. etc. etc. etc.

Whenever I hear someone call an inexpensive and common sense step "jive" it makes me cringe - I don't mean to start a fight and won't participate in one, but why on earth would you take a chance when there's no financial reason to do so?

Would you build your stick frame structure with the sill plate sitting in "good soil"?

Before someone argues that "telephone poles last a long time" think about the thickness of those poles vs. the poles we're talking about. And think about the chemicals on most of those poles.

edit: I remember meeting a top sales guy for one of my competitors when I was in the industry. There have been many threads about the company and how good their buildings are. He was consistently selling without post protection because "every dollar on the quote counts"... but on his own building??? he had post protection.

 

[911mike]

one little thing that the guy who did my siding did was to stack all the sheets in one pile and then drill thru all the sheets at once for the screws at 24", 48", 72" an so on......it did two things it made all the horiz holes line up perfectly as you look down the side of the barn and having a pilot hole keeps the metal from binding when installing the screws.

Can I ask who built your barn? By chance was it Peter Young?

 

[Bears Fan]

Beer

 

[MagKarl]

The perma-columns do look like a nice product, but they make for a substantial cost increase of over $100 per pole. That's getting closer to poured stem wall and footer cost.

I prefer wider truss spacing as you get a lot more usable volume in the way of headroom. I like the 12' purlin design. And LarryG, your shop layout with a mix of rafters and trusses is exactly what I'm planning.

 

[mrobins297aaa]

Can I ask who built your barn? By chance was it Peter Young?

Midwest pole barns built my barn, they did a excellant job,but they sub out the actual construction so it I guess it depends who they get to due the actual work.
the guy (and his crew) that did mine was Jason Dibble from Furwell, mi.........really new his stuff

 

[Crazy68Dart]

The perma-columns do look like a nice product, but they make for a substantial cost increase of over $100 per pole. That's getting closer to poured stem wall and footer cost.

You can subtract the length of the pole back out of the 5' and the poles really no longer need to be treated, either. It is not a total cost adder, but obviously will still be more than tossing wood into the ground. For me, it would add some resale value to your typical pole barn.

I just have issues with things trending towards the cheap, EPA mandates, etc. So, I think of ways to make sure things will last.

 

[kj_mustang]

Poles will not rot in the ground but at the surface where oxygen is present. Protect those areas from water and you have no rot.

 

[hippie2cams]

Why not just pour a stem wall around the perimiter and then build walls

 

[denis4x4]

I did an open pole barn years ago for hay storage. Used steel poles with saddles and manufacturers trusses. Fast forward, after the horses were gone, I enclosed it and poured a concrete floor. It's insulated and wired. Use it mainly for storage. Hard to tell how much I have in it as it was built in two stages and repurposed (love that word!).

 

[bygasper]

Paint fading warranty, rust warranty...thickness and quality of steel, wood rot warranty. The more expensive buildings have better warranties. Morton will be he most expensive. There are other builders with good warranties. All depends on budget and needs/wants. I have a Wick Building and love it. Also important...know every detail of what is to be done (if you have a builder) and see examples. Examples of the builders's work and the individual foreman (if possible).


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[Highlux]

If one of the poles was a stripper pole....that would make it better.

 

[garagebuilder]

Tensile strength of steel. Grade "E" 80,000-84,000 pounds is best.

The thicker cep that Morton uses is softer, dents esker and requires that plywood liner inside the building to add strength. That is also why they always sell wainescotting. It esker to replace 4 foot panels instead of long panels when they dent and the bottom is most likely the dented area.

They tell you a different song and dance but thats the real reason