What makes Craftsman hand tools Inferior?

[VH5150]

Like the title says, what is it that makes the Craftsman brand "inferior" (as stated by a lot of GJ members) to other hand tools?

Someone please say something besides pointing to Chinese manufacturing.

Dies anyone have some fact-based data to support the inferiority claim? Are tools breaking from proper use? Are they rounding nuts and bolts? Have there been injuries?

Ok, to be fair I know the finish isn't as awesome. But was it ever (the satin finish I mean)? And I know Craftsman ratchets aren't stellar either. But were they ever (compared to premium brands)? So let's leave those 2 points out and lets focus on form, fit, and function of things like wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, etc.

Dont get me wrong, I wish it was all USA too.

Who wants to go first?

 

[packet]

The raised panel wrenches hurt your hands when putting a decent amount of torque on them and they're fairly short.

Other than that, warranty support is difficult these days and the tools just aren't all that well made. I have a bunch of craftsman screwdrivers that have stripped and the slotted ones have twisted tips on them. I basically just use the slotted ones as pry bars these days and that's about it.

For average home use, they're generally fine though. With the quality advances in offshore tools though, Craftsman is overpriced compared to the competition, and harder to get. So, why bother?

 

[zendriver]

Just my opinion, but A lot of Harbor Freight hand tools are as good, or better quality, at often 1/2 the price.

Usability-wise, they are the same, IMO

 

[Fbmoose48]

"Inferior" is a relative term that needs to be clarified. A lot of otherwise good tools could be deemed inferior to Snap On or Festool, conversely, a lot of **** tools are superior to the Amazon no-name offshore specials.

 

[Fbmoose48]

Relative to tools at the same price point you may find better fit and finish, although COO will still often be offshore. Warranty support is a mixed bag, if you're replacing the same tool frequently enough for it to matter it may be time to consider an upgrade.

 

[yjWrangler]

What makes them great? Their price and warranty is all they had going. They're average in all ways. Crappy feeling wrenches that are too short, crappy screwdrivers that stink up your whole tool box, lousy RP ratchets. Of course there's some exceptions like the Pro stuff

They're not bad. But they're not all that great

 

[hasco]

Back in the day Craftsman tools were Good for the money ,had a Big selection, Lifetime warranty with Plenty of Sears stores around. They even had a Nice Tool catalog (up to about ten years ago. I even get my Garden tools,Hoses,Hose Nozzels replaced under warranty. What other store Would offer all that. So IMO the quality was good for most people.I never broke a socket or a wrench although the Phillips round out easier than most.Ratchets were iffy too.

 

[928'er]

china....

 

[Aberdale]

I think you pretty much know how 90% of the responses will go. But the reality is that they're medium quality, medium priced tools that do the job.

I have lots of old made in USA Cman that I bought back in the '70s after I got my first job. It all still works like it did when I bought it. The only replacement pieces I've had to buy were because I lost them. I also have a few of their made in China tools (mostly sockets), but they seem to work fine too.

The biggest problem with Cman is that most people that invested in Cman tools years ago bought them because they were reasonably priced and had a lifetime warranty. Sears betrayed that trust by making tools in China and making it more difficult to warranty a tool that has clearly been abused.

Yes, the RP wrenches are short and not that smooth. But my hands must be a little tougher than most respondents, because I can use them all day long and not complain about them hurting at the end of the day.

 

[EOC_Jason]

They were a good price point for the home user and had a quality lifetime no hassle warranty...

Yes, fit & finish is like night & day between older hand tools and the modern Chinese equivalents. They also have bulked up many of the tools because the metal is of poorer quality and still can't even take the strain of what older ones could. Sharp corners on the wrenches and poor tolerances can ruin your day the first time you use that tool...

Quality Control is also another big issue. Getting large sets or anything in a box that you can't see is a real gamble. Not just missing pieces but things that aren't straight that should be, or again like I said before fit & finish...

I have a fair mix of USA and Chinese CMan, I use them all... They get the job done... They aren't as nice as my SK or Snap-On, but I'm not wrenching for a living...

I will try to take some pics for you to compare a few items next time I'm in my garage and think about it.

 

[Rickster]

The older Cman RHFT ratchets were some of the best. Their Pro USA ratchets were a bit heavy but really nice too. The current Pro line looks nice but when you choose to compete in the China tool market your level of competition goes way up.

 

[visionguru]

china....

Why?

China can make quality stuff if they want to or are given more money. I was really impressed at their massive High Speed Train network (200 miles/hour). It really changed the way I perceive travel. Always on time, to the minute, and reliable. Now compare with Made in USA Amtrak, it's pathetic in comparison, about 100 years behind and crashing, derailment all the time. It's news if Amtrak doesn't have an accident for a month.

 

[ssdave]

Inferior is a relative term. They are inferior to Snap-on and Proto in general, and inferior to better SK, Wright, and Indestro, Bonney, etc. in the old discontinued brands.

What makes them inferior in my experience is a few things:

1) They tend to be thicker walled on wrench ends and sockets, so have more clearance problems.
2) Wrench box ends have too much bevel, so 1/16" to 1/8" of the fastener bearing area is lost.
3) Fit isn't as uniform as better brands, leading to rounding off.
4) Steel isn't as well hardened, so they wear/deform easier.
5) Quality, as in fit and finish, varied a lot.
6) Design is not as good, angles, handles, etc are better in some other brands.
7) I have had problems with wrenches bending, and/or twisting due to insufficient beam strength.

As someone else said, they were medium quality tools for a medium price. Coupled with excellent warranty, they were able to generate a tremendous market share, as those qualities added up to a good value overall. They weren't the best, but they got the job done for the majority of the people.

 

[Volvotechdude]

Considering most of my tools are old USA craftsman with a few chinese ones I'll say this. They'll get the job done and have for me professionally. The biggest thing I notice is the fitment on bolts is always a little loose compared to higher quality items. Both my USA and Chinese craftsman have fitment issues. It's not that bad but it's very noticeable to my cornwell/snap on tools.

 

[ER70S-2]

I am so sorry I spent my early wrenching years using those POS raised panel ratchets. They are easily the worst tools I have ever owned. Junk! I wish I knew there were much better alternatives when I was younger. Now that they are all Chinese I am done with Craftsman all together. I kind of hope these Craftsman threads die in time as people realize they have no redeming qualities anymore. Sad, but true.

 

[RAS61]

Their ratchets have been garbage for years. My first socket set in the late 70's had a very nice pear head ratchet, I really had love for that one. In the late 80's or early 90's I lost it and replaced it with an identical USA made model - what a disappointing POS! The 1/4 drive I got in that era with some sockets was also garbage. They sold out and screwed their loyal customers.

 

[Packard V8]

Good way to stir up some **** during a slow time of the year.

You and everyone here knows Craftsman form, fit, and function of things like wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, etc. are not "inferior", they are what they are for the price - better than some, worse than others.

The main things Craftsman had going for them all the years was universal availability and universal warranty. That was worth something back in the day; not so much today.

jack vines

 

[Tallpilot]

It's the value proposition that's changed. When there was a Sears on every corner and especially in every small town it made a lot of sense to start with Craftsman and work up if you needed better quality. Now if you don't have a store nearby and need to order tools shipped there are better value propositions out there if you aren't afraid to use the Internet.

 

[928'er]

Why?

China can make quality stuff if they want to or are given more money.

True, china is capable of producing quality products.

However, they will also make tooth paste, baby formula and milk containing melamine - if they think they can get away with it.

Craftsman used to mean good quality tools at a reasonable price. However, in their rush to the bottom, they off-shored production to china where their suppliers cut every possible corner to produce sub-standard products (often with the same part number) which Sears attempted to sell at the same (or higher) price as the formerly USA made tools.

 

[xin]

True, china is capable of producing quality products.

However, they will also make tooth paste, baby formula and milk containing melamine - if they think they can get away with it.

Craftsman used to mean good quality tools at a reasonable price. However, in their rush to the bottom, they off-shored production to china where their suppliers cut every possible corner to produce sub-standard products (often with the same part number) which Sears attempted to sell at the same (or higher) price as the formerly USA made tools.

In the past SEARS was a high end retailer (made in USA) products (quality over quality) ect...

Sears tools made in the USA were great quality, if there was an issue (it was replaced/warrantied). The 'RACE to the bottom' of quantity over Quality we are awash in CHINESE made JUNK.

Just goes to show years of brainwashing how it takes it toll to where people believe the propaganda.

 

[Garagetime]

I my self have. Bunch of Craftsman wrench's U.S made and Chinese and have not broken any. I do like the newer polished wrench's. The ratchets I find will work,but don't load them too much. They will break the longer the handle. The faster I find. I can break them. My only problem was. They switched to Chinese manufactures and still wanted U.S price. Just for example I needed a l set of impact sockets. Sears it would have been around $300 for the sets I needed. I bought Husky sockets also made in China $160.

 

[zendriver]

Why?

.

It's easy to blame the messenger, when we don't like the message.

A country that can make 80" LED TVs (or a 200mph train) can make a quality box-end wrench - if a reseller was willing to pay for one.


They are not.

 

[Ole Slewfoot]

Looking at the last two I bought...

the metal socket rails grip the sockets so hard the long rail bends when you remove one unless you are very careful.

Ratchet operated Oil filter wrench was US made, and the drive receptacle shattered the very first time i used it.

 

[kythri]

I have pretty soft, uncalloused hands, given that I'm an IT goon by trade, and I've never experienced these supposed claims of raised-panel terror upon my palms.

 

[Jim C.]

Good way to stir up some ****.......

You and everyone here knows Craftsman form, fit, and function of things like wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, etc. are not "inferior", they are what they are for the price - better than some, worse than others.........

jack vines

Mostly my thoughts too.

 

[Al Borland]

Picking on the ratchets-
Older ratchets with the metal selectors were reasonably good for their time, especially the "V" selector ones.
Plastic selector USA ratchets, not as smooth, not as well finished, (but the heads got smaller.) Other people's ratchets got better, theirs stagnated.
Chinese ratchets, probably no worse than the last USA ratchets, but even the cheapo ratchets caught up or surpassed them.

China-made sockets actually are better than the last of the USA sockets, Those flat-out ****.
Apparently made out of some metal even softer than Chinesium, and heat-treating was non-existent.
Now, the older USA-made sockets are as good as any middle-of-the-road USA brand and the New Britain sourced ones were great for their time.

 

[MaverickDMD]

This was a pleasant read in which I think every contributor exactly nailed every point spot on. Thanks to all for the very informative and gentlemanly piece.

 

[theoldwizard1]

Like the title says, what is it that makes the Craftsman brand "inferior" (as stated by a lot of GJ members) to other hand tools?

Someone please say something besides pointing to Chinese manufacturing.

I would not use the word "inferior". Maybe less valuable.

First you have to look at the older Craftsman product for 30+ years ago (95% of what is in my box is that vintage). The quality difference is immediately obvious.

Second, when you realize that the Craftsman stuff probably came out of the factory next door to the one making Harbor Freight tools but it costs more than double, well, you can now understand why people are bad mouthing Craftsman.

Personally, I still like their old style screwdrivers. I actually bough a new one last month from Ace. Not cheap, but not over priced considering it was somewhat of a specialty (cabinet style, long thin shaft and thinner blade).

 

[JR7]

Lobster claw wrenches. After I bought a set of WrightGrip and later on the Snap-On FDP wrenches it was like night and day in terms of size and gripping ability. The older CM ones that I see on occasion look pretty good though but the new ones are insanely big.

As mentioned their ratchets are pretty lousy. Sockets are for the most part okay but I don't like their detents so I replaced most of them with SK.

Too many gimmicky tools that just aren't all that useful and of poor quality.

Had a CM cordless drill when I started my job a while back; it didn't have enough power, one of the batteries died, and it got too hot to hold after extended use. Decided to buy a Bosch and never looked back. For home use I started buying Milwaukee because they had an extensive lineup of tools that I was interested in that I could use for woodworking, car work, and general stuff around the house (mini circular saw, 1/2" impact, lantern, hackzall etc...).

I guess for me once I started delving into the other brands such as SK, Wright, Snap-On, Wera, Wiha, Proto, Knipex, Milwaukee, Bosch, etc... I just don't even bother giving CM much of a look because these other brands all offer better products than CM does and I'm willing to pay for it. There are of course some CM stuff that is still good quality and reasonably priced (thread restorer kit, striking prybars, etc)

I don't hate the brand, I just have a hard time taking them serious with the amount of low quality they've been putting out and the low quality of leadership/management at Sears. Hopefully SBD will help turn that around.

 

[theoldwizard1]

You and everyone here knows Craftsman form, fit, and function of things like wrenches, sockets, screwdrivers, etc. are not "inferior", they are what they are for the price - better than some, worse than others.

I disagree. The HF wrenches and sockets IMHO are "better" at a much lower retail price.

I wanted an extra long 1/2" breaker bar. The Craftsman 1/2 did not have enough leverage for this old fart any more. I would have bought a 3/4" Craftsman but it was the same length ! I bough the HF Pittsburgh Pro 24" long one for a fraction of any USED tool truck brands and YouTube tests show it is no worse.

 

[mrvm]

When Craftsman (CM) hand tools were mostly US with a sprinkling of Germany, France and Japan they were fine tools for the money with a warranty and availability that couldn't be matched. Most of us admittedly or not started with CM and either retained them, lost them or moved onto better quality $$$ tools just need to remember where we started and appreciate the old CM. The newer stuff is more disposable and CM has lost there mojo many years ago as the newer imported stuff has surpassed them. GearWrench, Kobalt, Husky, etc have flourished with import suppliers so there may be hope for CM with its new owners.

 

[RAS61]

True, china is capable of producing quality products.

However, they will also make tooth paste, baby formula and milk containing melamine - if they think they can get away with it.

True, but even worse they're directly responsible for N. Korea and that major mess that threatens the entire planet - I think I'll send my money elsewhere,

 

[Fedwrench]

I'm not sure if they're inferior but, I do think that quality control needs to be tightened up a bit. I feel that the demand for pennies on the set piece pricing and warranty abuse drove craftsman far from what it once was.
I also feel that while other tool brands has gotten better, Craftsman hasn't. Look at Dewalt mechanics tools for example. Look at their fit, feel, finish then look at what's hanging in Sears and compare the two.
I also blame Gearwrench or the Apex tool group or whatever they're called these days. Under Apex leadership the factories that churned out craftsman tools for decades closed. There are excellent well made tools coming out of Taiwan but, you just don't see many wearing the Craftsman brand.

 

[8200rpm]

It's easy to blame the messenger, when we don't like the message.

A country that can make 80" LED TVs (or a 200mph train) can make a quality box-end wrench - if a reseller was willing to pay for one.


They are not.

Exactly

I’m typing this on a $900 iPhone made in China. Whether it’s the iPhone X or Samsung S8, they are the pinnacles of mobile phone technology and user experience... made in China. The problem isn’t country of origin. The problem is the company that owns the brand.

If you could have purchased $1000 of shares of Apple or Sears 15 years ago, which company would you pick?

 

[kctyphoon]

The people that use them that don't know how to use some tools within their limitations..

 

[kctyphoon]

Exactly

I’m typing this on a $900 iPhone made in China. Whether it’s the iPhone X or Samsung S8, they are the pinnacles of mobile phone technology and user experience... made in China. The problem isn’t country of origin. The problem is the company that owns the brand.

If you could have purchased $1000 of shares of Apple or Sears 15 years ago, which company would you pick?

For the record, iPhones are using Samsung displays - just some useless information for the iPhone freaks

 

[Citation]

I think most of the points were already covered. In the past CM was a reliable source for functionally good tools with somewhat crude finish. I grew up using my father's SO tools so my CM stuff was a bit of a let down. However, for the price it wasn't close. The guy who worked with my father had a lot of CM tools which he used professionally. He found them to be fine and rarely worth it to spend more.

I've found their sockets to be good as compared to other pro-sumer brands. Their ratchets were and still are crude feeling but functional. I've never liked the screwdrivers as I felt the philips tips never fit well.

The biggest issue I see is the others have upped their game. HF, the big home stores etc all have tools that now work basically just as well, often have better to much better fit and finish (but sometimes not where it counts), are just as cheap and offer the same long warranties. When Sears (or more likely their vendors) move production over seas many just didn't see an emotional reason to remain loyal.

Personally if I were to lose my tool collection I probably would have very few CM tools in my replacements. I wouldn't avoid them but I don't think they are the best value for the hobbits quality level I'm willing to pay for.

 

[Druder]

A few years back my father broke one of his older Craftsman ratchets so I offered to try to get it replaced. The new one is straight garbage in comparison. Besides the plastic parts that have no place inside a ratchet everything felt loose. Like everyone has already said, Craftsman lowered their quality but not their price. They burned both ends of the candle.

 

[xin]

A few years back my father broke one of his older Craftsman ratchets so I offered to try to get it replaced. The new one is straight garbage in comparison. Besides the plastic parts that have no place inside a ratchet everything felt loose. Like everyone has already said, Craftsman lowered their quality but not their price. They burned both ends of the candle.

That is the brainwashing saying you have to outsource every job to the 3rd world. It has worked out really well... NOT

 

[gdpolk]

Some of their tools have been pretty good, especially for the price. I happen to really like their older sockets and pry bars for example. The vast majority of their tools were mid-grade that get the job done but just weren't ever really intended to compete among the highest quality tools available. Things of this category might be their pliers by Western Forge or their hammers or their socket rails or extensions. Some of their tools are/were truly terrible by design and execution. Think of all their gimicky tools, the butter soft screwdrivers, or things of this sort.

I have a lot of tools and a lot of Craftsman. I never was brand loyal and never really found their tools to be the BEST but quite a lot of them are truly good enough to suit my needs just fine.