What Size 12pt Socket Fits a 1" Square Plug?

[coralnut]

Title says it all. What size 12-point socket "fits" on a 1" square plug?

I know this isn't a "proper" solution -- I just want to remove something. Once. And I can't find 4 or 8 point in the right size.

 

[hautpot]

One-inch Drive socket with a pair of Knipex

 

[shockwave]

I would try 1 inch open end wrench first

But a lot of bigger box trucks use square drive look at local truck service stations

 

[logical]

12 divided by 4 = 3 so you need a 3" socket.

Actually, it will really depend a lot on how sharp the corners are on the plug. Somewhere around 30-32mm 12 point looks about right based on a few rough checks I took on a few 12 pt sockets. I have some 60+ year old square 1/2 drive sockets but the largest is 7/8" square.

A short scrap of 1.25" thin wall square tube might fit it too.

 

[coralnut]

i would try 1 inch open end wrench first

btdt

 

[Evilelroy]

1-1/8"or 1-3/16" I think. I don't have any 1" sq. to test it.
I know 3/4" square you can use a 7/8" 12 pt.

 

[coralnut]

I know that 1-1/8 is too small, tried it. I don't have 1-3/16 or 1-1/4. I'm thinking that 1-1/4 might be the answer. Will need to buy whichever one is the right one.

 

[dutchgray]

If you need to buy a socket just buy the correct one, 1" square, or if its deep enough get 2 open ends on it.
HJE has wright 1/2" 1" 8 point for $18.60, its not cheap but its much less likely to round it off than a 12 point.

 

[Rico.]

Doesn't anyone remember their trigonometry from school....

If you have a 1 inch square... draw a line from one corner to the other
corner diametrically opposed and you now have 2 right angled isosceles
triangles...

IIRC... to find the hypotenuse you need to add the 2 sides together
and then find the square root of it....

so... 1+1=2

the square root of 2 = 1.41

So... you need to find a socket 1.41" in diameter...

so probably the closest imperial socket you will be able to get is 1-7/16"

or better yet.... a metric 36mm is exactly 1.41 inches...




Hope I got that right. Cheers.

 

[nine4gmc]

Doesn't anyone remember their trigonometry from school....

If you have a 1 inch square... draw a line from one corner to the other
corner diametrically opposed and you now have 2 right angled isosceles
triangles...

IIRC... to find the hypotenuse you need to add the 2 sides together
and then find the square root of it....

so... 1+1=2

the square root of 2 = 1.41

So... you need to find a socket 1.41" in diameter...

so probably the closest imperial socket you will be able to get is 1-7/16"

or better yet.... a metric 36mm is exactly 1.41 inches...




Hope I got that right. Cheers.

Schooling me! About an hour ago I was trying to explain to the woman that if we had a 22' square pool instead of a 22' round pool, we would have a much larger pool. She thought I was pulling her leg and that they would be equal or the square would be smaller. Now I can show her the math.

 

[shawhite]

Pathagoriums Therum a^2 + b^2=c^2 where c is the hypotenuse

 

[metaldad]

according to the Ward Manufacturing (USA) pipe fitting documentation........... their cast 125# 1'' plug is 13/16 across the flats.
page 28.
http://1nud9a2j8wrb2t7d2f2s9k98.wpe...01_Ward-Domestic-Pipe-Fittings-US-Catalog.pdf

 

[ihateminimumwage]

IIRC the newer style of "off corner engagement" sockets won't fit on a square plug (or tap) like the older style 12pt does.

I remember there have been quite a few discussions around here on it over the years...

 

[metaldad]

anvil international's forged steel 1'' plug is 0.81'' across the flats.
their solid plug is 13/16.

 

[Wamsutta]

Doesn't anyone remember their trigonometry from school....

If you have a 1 inch square... draw a line from one corner to the other
corner diametrically opposed and you now have 2 right angled isosceles
triangles...

IIRC... to find the hypotenuse you need to add the 2 sides together
and then find the square root of it....

so... 1+1=2

the square root of 2 = 1.41

So... you need to find a socket 1.41" in diameter...

so probably the closest imperial socket you will be able to get is 1-7/16"

or better yet.... a metric 36mm is exactly 1.41 inches...




Hope I got that right. Cheers.

Outstanding! I'll use that someday.

 

[MikeF2316]

Doesn't anyone remember their trigonometry from school....

If you have a 1 inch square... draw a line from one corner to the other
corner diametrically opposed and you now have 2 right angled isosceles
triangles...

IIRC... to find the hypotenuse you need to add the 2 sides together
and then find the square root of it....

so... 1+1=2

the square root of 2 = 1.41

So... you need to find a socket 1.41" in diameter...

so probably the closest imperial socket you will be able to get is 1-7/16"

or better yet.... a metric 36mm is exactly 1.41 inches...




Hope I got that right. Cheers.

You've got the corner to corner measurement. Sockets are flat to flat.

Picture a triangle with the sides

from two opposite corners of the hex This is your square root of 2.
from the one of those corners to a corner beside the other corner above.
This is the distance between flats.
the angle between these sides is 30°
the third side joins these 2 sides, i.e. one of the flats

If we remember any trigonometry from high school the cosign of the angle gives us the relationship between the hypotenuse and the adjacent.
Cosign of 30° is the square root of 3 divided by 2 or about 0.866.

So the relationship of flat to flat vs corner to corner on a hex is 0.866

If you put the 2 relationships together, you have the square root of 2 multiplied by the square root of 3 divided by 2. Or about 1.2248.

So assuming perfectly sharp corners, you would need a 1.2248 inch socket or about 1 3.6/16, or 31.1 mm.

so the answer is probably 1 1/4, but maybe 1 3/16 would fit if the corners were rounded and depending on the clearance designed into the socket.

It's surprising how often this come up...

http://www.garagejournal.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249949&showall=1

 

[MikeF2316]

Schooling me! About an hour ago I was trying to explain to the woman that if we had a 22' square pool instead of a 22' round pool, we would have a much larger pool. She thought I was pulling her leg and that they would be equal or the square would be smaller. Now I can show her the math.

Try comparing your next pizza to the box it came in...

 

[Rico.]

Re: What Size 12pt Socket Fits a 1" Square Plug?

Yes of course... I didn't take into consideration that the socket is measured flat to flat.

At least I got the corner to corner fastener measurement correct. So only a partial fail.. [emoji56]

 

[kctyphoon]

its 1 1/8"..



thats a 1" square bolt for those that are wondering.. at least thats the socket that fits the 1" head hardware i use.

an open end wrench, or a good adjustable is your best bet - but if you NEED this thing to work, just search for a 1" double square apex socket on ebay.. i actually just bought one for like $20 a few weeks ago, and the guy selling them had at least one more...

 

[Evilelroy]

I'd go with the 1-3/16" 12 point.

 

[coralnut]

Thanks everyone. I'll think about the pizza analogy tonight when I order dinner.

The square clean out plug is original to a 1957 floor drain. I don't know if it's ever been off. I do know that it hasn't been off in at least 40 years. It's on tight... got some rust on it.

It measures 1.0", not anything less. I was able to slip a 1" crescent wrench on it, but the fit was tight due to some surface corrosion and I had to pound it on to get it on all the way. As you'd expect, a 1" crescent wrench isn't very good in a high torque / rusty application. But then a 1-1/4" 12 point won't be optimal either -- it's just something that's relatively easy to find.

Without a doubt, a 1" square socket is the answer. The question is where to get one... one that is really 1" across the flats, and not some bastardized version of 1-inch that's actually smaller than 1-inch, like 0.81 or 13/16, as those will be too small.

Thanks again.

 

[kctyphoon]

Thanks everyone. I'll think about the pizza analogy tonight when I order dinner.

The square clean out plug is original to a 1957 floor drain. I don't know if it's ever been off. I do know that it hasn't been off in at least 40 years. It's on tight... got some rust on it.

It measures 1.0", not anything less. I was able to slip a 1" crescent wrench on it, but the fit was tight due to some surface corrosion and I had to pound it on to get it on all the way. As you'd expect, a 1" crescent wrench isn't very good in a high torque / rusty application. But then a 1-1/4" 12 point won't be optimal either -- it's just something that's relatively easy to find.

Without a doubt, a 1" square socket is the answer. The question is where to get one... one that is really 1" across the flats, and not some bastardized version of 1-inch that's actually smaller than 1-inch, like 0.81 or 13/16, as those will be too small.

Thanks again.

this is the guy i bought mine from.. you can probably get this for $12 or $13.. you wont find a better price for something so heavy duty.. its 1/2" square drive.

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=371370931791

its part of a set for lineman.. i just bought the 1", 7/8", and 3/4" - with two 7/16 hex to 1/2" square impact drive adapters from this guy.. every transaction was painless.

this is the set its from -

 

[MikeF2316]

its 1 1/8"..
.........

also - instead of everyone arguing mathmatics - you can just draw a 1" square on a piece of paper and measure from corner to corner.. or is that too easy?

No the math is easier. I didn't need to get out of my chair...

Actually, using exact math is a flawed method. As I mentioned in my post, the exact size of sockets and the clearance in their corners means math will only get you in the ball park...

 

[coralnut]

according to the Ward Manufacturing (USA) pipe fitting documentation........... their cast 125# 1'' plug is 13/16 across the flats.
page 28.
http://1nud9a2j8wrb2t7d2f2s9k98.wpe...01_Ward-Domestic-Pipe-Fittings-US-Catalog.pdf

I think I figured out the reason for the size confusion.

The Ward documentation says that a 1" NPS pipe cast iron plug is 13/16" across (page 29).

I don't know what size the actual pipe is in the floor drain, as it's embedded in concrete and I can't see it. What I can see is a plug that fits a 1" crescent wrench (with a little coaxing). That tells me that the pipe has to be one of the following:

1-1/4" NPS pipe, plug is 15/16" across flats, or
1-1/2" NPS pipe, plug is 1-1/8" across flats.

I'm leaning toward 1-1/2", as I have 1-1/2" pipes going into the concrete. Both sizes are pretty close to a 1" crescent, and with decades of corrosion who knows what the actual size was originally. What I do know is that a 1" crescent is nice and snug now.

I'm thinking a 1-1/8" square socket would do it.

Thank you guys for doing the math. I was busy rodding a second floor drain while you talked about pizza and swimming pools and trigonometry.

 

[franzdom]

The math is 1.41/1.15 or the square root of 2 over the ratio of edge to edge for a hex.
That is 1.22 which is very likely a 1-1/4 that would work.

 

[kctyphoon]

No the math is easier. I didn't need to get out of my chair...

Actually, using exact math is a flawed method. As I mentioned in my post, the exact size of sockets and the clearance in their corners means math will only get you in the ball park...

yea i posted that too quick.. which is why i removed it. lol - but the 1 1/8" 12 point is what fits the 1" hardware i use. i have 1" square bolts holding beams together in my basement. (didnt make sense to take a pic of the socket ON the bolt, but trust me thats what fits) but i also posted a GREAT deal on a 1" double square apex line socket..

 

[kctyphoon]

yet another option.. lowell 1" square ratcheting wrench..

http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151725820579

 

[Evilelroy]

That's a cool wrench. Might have to get a short ext. to go wth it and use upside down

 

[coralnut]

Thanks. I think I'll go with the 1-1/8" square socket. Then I'll use use an extension and a breaker bar to break it loose.

Funny thing, I'm knee-deep in impact sockets now that I've bought the Sunnex 2568, 2569 and 3580 master sets, but I still don't have everything that I need.

That just goes to show you -- no matter how many tools you have, you always need another one... or two... or three... or...

 

[kctyphoon]

That's a cool wrench. Might have to get a short ext. to go wth it and use upside down

not sure i follow...

 

[Evilelroy]

I'm just thinking if he needs knuckle clearance with the linemans wrench a 1" drive extension would work upside down.

 

[kctyphoon]

Thanks. I think I'll go with the 1-1/8" square socket. Then I'll use use an extension and a breaker bar to break it loose.

Funny thing, I'm knee-deep in impact sockets now that I've bought the Sunnex 2568, 2569 and 3580 master sets, but I still don't have everything that I need.

That just goes to show you -- no matter how many tools you have, you always need another one... or two... or three... or...

one thing that MIGHT be worth considering - is how imortant this plug is, because if the metal is on the softer side im not sure how well a 12pt is gonna last before it starts to round off.. there was a thread a few months ago with someone that had a mangled square plug on a compressor tank.. if you have a couple days it might be worth it getting an actual square socket - and an impact one at that.. just a thought..

 

[Evilelroy]

That wrench is a beauty and for $20.

 

[kctyphoon]

I'm just thinking if he needs knuckle clearance with the linemans wrench a 1" drive extension would work upside down.

i get it.. good idea.. but then this style would be a better option..

 

[kctyphoon]

not a square socket - but another Lowell pass through ratching line wrench.

i dont have one, but ive seen them with interchangeable heads to change the sizes.. i bought a couple different single size ones off ebay with the intention of cleaning up and reselling (this was one) - but they found a home hanging from the beams in my besement instead.. one or two acually made it to work in case they can make my life easier..

 

[Evilelroy]

Thanks. Good work on the options. We have to keep thinking that's what keeps you ahead.

 

[Nick Danger]

Why not just get a Harbor Freight 48" pipe wrench?

 

[Evilelroy]

Those wrenches are the real deal. They look like they are built to use.

 

[PelicanPines]

Thanks. I think I'll go with the 1-1/8" square socket. Then I'll use use an extension and a breaker bar to break it loose.

Funny thing, I'm knee-deep in impact sockets now that I've bought the Sunnex 2568, 2569 and 3580 master sets, but I still don't have everything that I need.

That just goes to show you -- no matter how many tools you have, you always need another one... or two... or three... or...

This is why I never question having a large tool. I can add something about my wife agreeing but it might be inappropriate. Basically I'm saying all this just to subscribe to this thread. Plus agreeing your quote... you always need another one.

 

[coralnut]

Why not just get a Harbor Freight 48" pipe wrench?

Big pipe wrenches won't fit in a floor drain. I already have a 24" and a sledge, but I can't even get a 14" in the bowl.