What socket depth to remove lug nuts?

[saturdaymechanic]

I have a 2000 Nissan Altima and my wife has a 2011 Nissan Murano. We all know the BS wrenches they give you to remove the wheel nuts are junk, so I wanted to get a breaker bar to use on them.

My questions: I believe I need a 21 MM socket, do I use the standard depth or deep set socket? I have the acorn style nut.

Also, the only size 1/2" breaker bars I see are 18". I've read some people prefer the 24". Your thoughts?

Thanks!

 

[atari]

Deep well is prolly what you want and the longer the bar the easier it will be to break loose the lug nuts.

 

[srmofo]

I like deep wells because they give your knuckles a bit more room.

Length doesnt matter...or at least, thats what she keeps telling me......If youre' keeping it in the car then 18" is fine, but if you are going to do a brake job at the house then I would reach for something longer

 

[Lotek]

Use a deep socket to clear the wheel, maybe a short extension, if you are going to carry it in the car, get the short breaker bar(no cheapies here) and add a cheater pipe. I use a big crossbar type lugwrench for our trucks and trailers, much more leverage, and less likely to get off angle, but harder to store.

Actually to do it right, especially on imports, you need a torque wrench to tighten the lugs, don't use it for breaking them loose though.

 

[mkirkpatrick]

My wife has a O3 murano, I use a shallow socket. The nuts are just a acorn nut they aren't too deep. You will need to use a shallow to be able to start the nut on the lug. I usually put the nut in the socket on a short extension and finger start the nut. So to answer the question, 21 mm short socket if your putting a kit together to carry around in the car.

 

[DrkMtnDew]

generally deep wells are the way to go. most of the time shallows will work to. and as far as the breaker bar and 18'' bar is plenty most the time. if you have any doubt about it or maybe your wife or kids drive the car, put a tube sock over the bar and follow that with a cheater pipe of roughly the same length (sock prevent annoying rattle).

 

[ajchien]

If I use shallow, I use a short extension to clear the breaker bar from the wheel - last ting I want to do is scratch up a nice alloy wheel.

 

[Daedalus]

No one's going to suggest the special plastic-coated deep lug nut sockets to prevent damage to the rims?

Torque is around 80 ft-lbs, so if you can get about 60 lbs of force on the end of the 18" bar, it ought to be long enough. I only ever use a 18" breaker on my wheels to break torque, and a torque wrench to tighten.

 

[MrMark]

No one's going to suggest the special plastic-coated deep lug nut sockets to prevent damage to the rims?

Torque is around 80 ft-lbs, so if you can get about 60 lbs of force on the end of the 18" bar, it ought to be long enough. I only ever use a 18" breaker on my wheels to break torque, and a torque wrench to tighten.

OK, I'll suggest those too. I have the Hazet 17 mm and it's a deep in length but does not go all the way through. It's like a shallow on the inside if that makes sense. The reason for that is that it has a plastic protector on the inside too to protect those acorn lug nuts.

I've used shorts before, but they need an extension. So I graduated to the deep. 18 inch bar is more than enough for me.

Just remember that the set pictured is an import set and it is not impact rated. You can get that set from a million different places. I think it all comes from the same Taiwan factory regardless of whose name is on it.

 

[Smoking Joe]

You can get a very cheap set of deep well impact sockets with the plastic sleaves at Harbor Freight. $10-15 if memory serves me correct. Or you can wrap tape around the socket.

With lug nuts I prefer impact sockets, because I have split a craftsman socket on occasion (got them replaced for free, but annoying none the less). If you are using standard sockets, I recommend you use a 6 point socket, as opposed to a 12 point.

I have an 18" cheap breaker bar from HF that I use on occasion. If you tighten up the lug nuts to the torque spec (or 100 fp if you can't find the spec) you may not need the breaker bar to take them off. On the flip side, a good length of cheater bar can come in handy after a shop tightens them up with an air gun.

 

[dirtrider]

Generally for taking off lug nuts I prefer the deep impacts if your just going to buy one set. Many times a shallow socket will not work on quite a few car's lug nut's, but more often than not a deep socket will work most of the time on most car's. As for breaker bars I wouldn't be too concerned with the difference between an 18" and a 24" bar when your working on an Altima or Murano both probably take around 80-100 ft pounds of torque on the lug nuts which either bar can provide easily. But given a choice of both bar's being the same quality I would opt for the longer bar just because of the extended range of applications you could use it for that require lots of torque and it will be easier on your arms.

 

[wchamberlain]

Snap On Cordless Impact!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[pmohr]

Most Nissans tend to be a PITA, with lugnuts with no flange, and very deep wells in the wheel. I would suggest a deep 21mm socket that has a 'stop' inside, so the nut doesn't rest all the way back in the socket.

I know the 3/8" GearWrench sockets are made like that, IIRC the 1/2" are as well. The long HF 1/2" breaker bar and a deep 1/2" 21mm GW socket from your local parts store should serve you well.

 

[littlekillertoad]

I use deep well impacts and an impact gun.

 

[Wakefield]

Are those flip sockets fatter than regular impact sockets? I think regular (not the deeps) impact sockets have a little bit more depth (bolt length room) than regular chrome sockets. I would think impact sockets should fit into lugnut wells on most regular cars and pickups but on an exotic car or with aftermarket wheels you would have to get a thinner wall socket.

 

[Packard V8]

X2 on using an impact socket. On my own cars, I always use anti-sieze and a torque wrench. Most any socket and bar will remove them.

However, no good deed goes unpunished. Once, trying to be a good Samaritan, I split an Easco 17mm socket on a stranded kid's VW. The lugs had been put on dry with an air wrench years before.

jack vines

 

[cortez]

A 13/16ths deep socket (6 point) can be exactly 21mm. Usually there is a small difference in size and could be used for 21mm, but different tolerances also mean that you could uses a caliper to hunt for an exact 21 mm 13/16ths socket.

When I go tho the flea market I always bring my caliper to check out the sockets. Last Thursday I found a Craftsman 13/16ths deep socket for a buck. It was exactly 21mm in actual size.

Now it is home in my wife's car that takes 21mm lugs (and I have a 16 inch breaker bar[another flea bargain] with cheater, tried them out, smeared some anti-seize on them again and they are ready to go).

 

[tooldeloo]

I use a 1/2" deep 19mm chrome socket, a 3" or 6" extension, a 3/4' drive adapter and a 3/4" breaker or ratchet on my Subarus.
One time I tried my electric impact, with a C-man deep impact socket. There seemed to be enough clearance in the well, but in fact there was just a little bit of friction between the well and the socket. Before I realized what was happening, the lug nut spun in place, without backing out, and stripped the threads on the bolt.
Then it was time for a new bolt, but I was able to drive the old one out and slip in a new one without having to take the rotor off.

 

[saturdaymechanic]

Thanks for the replies fellas...I have had problems with the nuts seizing on the stud when the time came to change a flat with the lug wrench.

This weekend I got 2 Craftsman 1/2" breaker bars for our cars and 2 Duralast 21 MM deep sockets (no Craftsman available).

Thanks again GJ...

 

[Skyline]

Nissan uses very weak studs...so a torque wrench really needs to be used to tighten the lug nuts; it's very easy to break one if you go much over the torque value. But since the required torque is fairly low, (90ft lbs I think), it is not acceptable to be way off on the low side either. So if you need to change a tire in an emergency, guess as best you can, then check them when you get home with a torque wrench. Do NOT let a tire shop tighten your lug nuts with an impact gun. A torque stick is an option, (better than nothing), but not as accurate as a good torque wrench.

 

[strelnik]

Thanks for the replies fellas...I have had problems with the nuts seizing on the stud when the time came to change a flat with the lug wrench.

This weekend I got 2 Craftsman 1/2" breaker bars for our cars and 2 Duralast 21 MM deep sockets (no Craftsman available).

Thanks again GJ...

It's up to you if you want to get the plastic-covered sockets. I use impacts.
Also: Get a 6-10" extension and a breaker bar plus cheater pipe.

I had to change the flat on my one-ton van the other day in a parking lot and doing it effortlessly in 10 degree weather makes life easier.

The harder thing was getting the two-ton small aluminum racing jack under the frame members so I could lift up the front area enough to swap tires quickly.

On bigger trucks and vans, if you don't have a good jack, you can be in trouble. I bought a load of tools not too long ago and they included two 12 ton bottle jack jobs that will raise a vehicle 20" off the ground.

I'd keep them except I have two already and I'm collecting too much stuff. Three sales planned this year to get rid of tools and car parts.

If you can imagine it, I have 12 spare chest-type tool boxes. So all will go. That's what you get for saying yes everytime someone wants to give you something.

 

[Coach James]

Nissan uses very weak studs...so a torque wrench really needs to be used to tighten the lug nuts; it's very easy to break one if you go much over the torque value. But since the required torque is fairly low, (90ft lbs I think), it is not acceptable to be way off on the low side either. So if you need to change a tire in an emergency, guess as best you can, then check them when you get home with a torque wrench. Do NOT let a tire shop tighten your lug nuts with an impact gun. A torque stick is an option, (better than nothing), but not as accurate as a good torque wrench.

Serious question> If the studs are weak and can easily break from a bit of over torque, why don't they break when hitting a bad pothole or really rough road? Is it just because one is torque while the other is shear?

Coach

 

[Wakefield]

Acorn style lugnuts-if the acorn is almost as big around as the hex it could be hitting the "stop" or flange inside the socket and preventing full engagement/not allowing you to get the benefit of all of the "bolt clearance length"-I was looking at my Jeep,has tall acorns on its lugnuts-and at a couple sockets-some deeps have the ring which stops the nut from getting lost way up in the socket as well as some of the shorts-I notice that an old Sunex's ring looks small enough to catch the acorn and prevent full engagement-although most of the hex would be engaged-a Snap on seems to have a big enough ring not to catch the acorn which is almost as big around as the distance between the flats of the hex- some deeps don't have that ring and would not catch the acorn-
-with a ring catching the acorn you might have most of the hex engaged,it might not be obvious that not all of it is engaged unless you look closely-if the lug is not overtight or rusted on it might come off all right but if it is very tight and you need all the force you can muster-then perhaps the corners might round out.

I think the axle flange or whatever you call it centralizes the wheel and protects the studs from shearing when you hit a bump. Perhaps Nissan used weaker studs in the hope that if somebody put an air gun on there and whaled on it hard enough to warp the rotors the lug might let go before the rotor got ruined. (Just my speculation).