What sump pump do you recommend?

[FatFndr]

I just moved into this house 6 weeks ago, it is 23 years old. It has a sump pump (my first) which is original to the house (so I'm told) but no back up system. It doesn't work very often, maybe two-three times a week it will kick on. I'm thinking I should really have a battery backup, maybe a whole new system and keep the old pump as a backup, but I don't know which unit to buy.

Any suggestions?

 

[mechanic217]

I have a Watchdog battery sump pump as a backup to the regular pump, other than testing it I have not needed it ,was not cheap but less than repairing damages from the basement flooding.

 

[Pumpman1968]

In my opinion, those battery back-up sump pumps are a gimmick. They are tiny, don't pump a bunch of water and, after sitting for 2 years waiting for the power to go out and be needed, the damn things don't work. You can buy a small inexpensive generator for the same investment. Put in a Zoeller M-53 or M-57 sump pump, plug it in and be ready with your little generator.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[bob15]

I prefer Zoeller pumps. For a stand alone sump pump, the M98 is great. For a complete unit with battery back-up, I would recommend:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Zoeller-Pro-Pak-98-12v-Back-Up-Sump-Pump-Sys-w-507-M98-/190905000575


bob

 

[bob15]

They are tiny, don't pump a bunch of water and, after sitting for 2 years waiting for the power to go out and be needed, the damn things don't work. You can buy a small inexpensive generator for the same investment.
Just my 2 cents.

One issue with you statement, what happens if you are away at work and cannot go home to dig out the generator and start it. Or you are on vacation and the power goes out, then what?

bob

 

[Gary S]

One issue with you statement, what happens if you are away at work and cannot go home to dig out the generator and start it. Or you are on vacation and the power goes out, then what?

bob

Then you get to clean up water mess if you don't have battery backup. If you have battery backup, and your battery is dead like we expect, you still get to clean up water mess.

 

[Pumpman1968]

One issue with you statement, what happens if you are away at work and cannot go home to dig out the generator and start it. Or you are on vacation and the power goes out, then what?

bob

It's a **** shoot Bob..........what do you do in the same scenario and the stupid little battery back up sump pump you paid $300 plus for doesn't work?

The pumps they use for those are the same they use for bilge pumps.......they pump very little volume, and only drop in volume when pumping out a basement with 5-8 feet of lift......so if you have a serious issue, they are easily overwhelmed.

Then there is the issue of it sitting, unused for a long period of time. Ever leave something electrical in a damp basement for 2 years and then try to use it? What happens? Usually, nothing.

Also, keep in mind, when you buy that little system, you also have to figure in the price of a deep cycle marine battery.

Get your stuff off the basement floor, raise your water heater/furnace/water tank..........be prepared with a plan that doesn't include a gimmick.

If you want complete protection, install a 10kw gen set and an auto transfer switch and be done with it.

 

[WNYflyer]

The good contractors and supply houses around here seem to use the Zoeller pumps.

As far as back-up is concerned I have a few co-workers that have their sump pumps also running off the town/city water pressure in some way. I don't know much about that hook-up whether it is the an additional pump or what or how well they work. Guess the only worry with those is if the water pumping station goes down or if you have inadequate water pressure.

 

[Pumpman1968]

The good contractors and supply houses around here seem to use the Zoeller pumps.

As far as back-up is concerned I have a few co-workers that have their sump pumps also running off the town/city water pressure in some way. I don't know much about that hook-up whether it is the an additional pump or what or how well they work. Guess the only worry with those is if the water pumping station goes down or if you have inadequate water pressure.

Those are a completely different kind of animal.......and I have never used/installed one. This gives a pretty good idea what the deal is with them http://www.radonseal.com/pumps/water-powered-pumps.htm

The only question I have with those is, if they work on a venture (like a jet pump) then the water supply needs to be moving.....as in....a faucet has to be running for it to work. I could be wrong, though. Like I said.........never used one.

 

[rslaback]

I believe you're talking about this.

When the power kicks off the water valve opens, allowing water to flow through the pump and **** up water out of your sump pump pit.

 

[bob15]

It's a **** shoot Bob..........what do you do in the same scenario and the stupid little battery back up sump pump you paid $300 plus for doesn't work?

The pumps they use for those are the same they use for bilge pumps.......they pump very little volume, and only drop in volume when pumping out a basement with 5-8 feet of lift......so if you have a serious issue, they are easily overwhelmed.

Then there is the issue of it sitting, unused for a long period of time. Ever leave something electrical in a damp basement for 2 years and then try to use it? What happens? Usually, nothing.

Also, keep in mind, when you buy that little system, you also have to figure in the price of a deep cycle marine battery.

Get your stuff off the basement floor, raise your water heater/furnace/water tank..........be prepared with a plan that doesn't include a gimmick.

If you want complete protection, install a 10kw gen set and an auto transfer switch and be done with it.

I did the 12 kw gen-set.....but the OP was talking about getting a battery back-up. If that is what he wants, i recommend a Zoeller (recommended sump pump even without the back-up part).

As for the damp basement and the dead battery......battery tender and a dehumidifier.......both issues solved. Keep the battery off the floor and test it occasionally.

Wet basement, been there done that.....have had a sump pump for about 35 years and have had to clean wet basements, but for a couple hundred bucks it does work, and is a lot cheaper than the 7k spent on my generator with me doing the work.

I have a friend that has the set-up in the link i posted and loves it. And I don't believe he considers it a waste of money.


To each his own on this one.....
bob

 

[Pumpman1968]

I wasn't talking about a dead battery.........I meant a pump seized up from not being started for 2 years.

And, hey, your right.........to each his own......I was just giving an opinion based on 27 years in the plumbing field.

 

[fury9]

I like the Zoeller pumps too.

 

[farginicehole]

I don't really have a preferred brand of sump pump, but I'll throw in my two cents on the battery backup issue...

I have a very shallow sump pit, and after an iced-up pipe caused a backup in the basement (while I was home asleep), I redid the setup to fix the freezing issue and at the same time purchased a watchdog battery backup pump.

I agree with pumpman, a battery backup (12v) pump will be far less capable than your main sump pump, and a backup generator with a transfer switch would be a better option. For instance, with an 8ft head, compared to the main pump, it takes about 4 times longer for my backup to clear out the sump pit.

That said, on three occasions in 4 years, I'm pretty sure the pump saved me from another cleanup.

First, when I was two hours away from home I got a call from the neighbor (in the other half of the duplex townhouse) saying power was out due to a storm and his basement was flooding. I fully expected to come home to a wet basement, but instead found the little pump chugging away and a completely dry floor. The battery was down to about 10 volts after nearly 3 hours, so it probably wouldn't have lasted much longer. I was dragging out my portable generator when the power came back on.

Second, three days in a row, the alarm (telling me that the backup pump was activated) went off. Everything seemed ok on the main pump, so I thought the backup was flaking out. Turns out the float switch was intermittent on the main pump, and the backup was kicking in just for that cycle. If I did not have the backup I might not have known about the switch until too late.

Third, the main pump developed a crack in the case. The pump ran, but due to the leak was not at full capacity, The backup pump came on when the water level got too high and was able to help the main until it was replaced. Here again, the backup pump alarm alerted me to an issue on the main pump that wouldn't have been apparent.

Now, maybe i had some bad luck with the main pump, but when it was all said and done, the backup was a good $400 investment. Knowing that my wife wouldn't have to mess with the generator until I got home was a benefit too. Now that it is a rental property, I have a bit more peace of mind knowing that at the very least the alarm will alert the tenants to a problem.

A few more things:

- It is very valid that a pump sitting there not running for 2 years is prone to failure. There is a 'test' button on my backup pump that I would hit once a week or so to make sure the pump got some action. Occasionally I would pull the plug on the main pump during a storm to make sure the pump could empty the pit and the battery was ok.

- The watchdog comes with a wall-wart charger and the battery doesn't recharge very fast. It wouldn't keep up with multiple extended power outages within a few days. The wall-wart isn't powerful enough to run the pump directly either. Not sure if other brands charge the battery in a different way.

- Figure in the cost of the battery as well. The watchdog battery, plus the battery acid ( you have to add yourself! ) is about $150. And, please, follow the directions and do it outside (and not on a windy day like I did). Again, not sure how other brands do it. If there is an option that doesn't include pouring acid into tiny little holes on a battery, I would choose that one instead.

- After the power outage incident, we realized that if the power went out we wouldn't know about it (unless the neighbor called). So we purchased an auto dialer ($75) with a water sensor - if the AC power went out or the water level in the sump pit reached the sensor, it would call my cell phone, then my wife, and then her dad who lives a few miles away who had a key.

- Because of the battery backup, for an extra $10 or $15 dollars a year we were able to add a 'sump pump failure' rider onto our homeowners insurance. This was not available to us if our backup was a generator - the insurance agent said 'because what if you are not home to start it up?' I don't agree with that, but that is the policy.

It ***** to have to clean up a water damaged basement, especially if it is finished and you have valuables down there. To me, the battery backup pump isn't a complete solution. But considering the relative low cost compared to a autostart generator/transfer switch, it can buy you some time in an emergency.

 

[ford33]

I have switched to all cast iron Zoeller pumps in my two sump pump wells in my current house. I purchase them from a plumbing supply store in my neighborhood. I find they are well built and very reliable compared to the plastic or cheap pumps sold at the big box stores.

As far as battery backup I have used Watchdog brand and find them unreliable after 5 years. Either the electronics break or the unit signals false alarms. The batteries only last 5-7 years and must be maintained with water.

I have switched both sump wells to a local sump pump company named Trusty Warns in Addison IL. They make a brass sump pump with their own pump control unit. They install it and then maintain it every six months. The cost is higher than a Watchdog brand but then I have piece of mind that it will work when necessary.

One other item to be aware of when installing a back-up unit. Install separate plumbing for the backup. Do not connect the backup to the primary pump plumbing. Two separate incidents in different houses taught me this lesson. The first house battery backup came on when the outlet plumbing froze during a very cold winter. The well filled up with water and both pumps eventually came on but with the piping full of frozen water there was no place for the water to go causing the basement to have water in the area around the well. We caught it in time and cleaned up the mess.

The second lesson occurred in my next house when the small pond behind the house filled to a extremely high level due to very high rainfall in a short time. The underground outlet plumbing exited near the ponds edge and was soon under 2.5 feet of water. The water pressure at that depth was sufficient to prevent the pumps from pumping the water out. Again both pumps are running but no water is being pumped out. That lesson cost me about $13,000 in damages (carpeting, drywall and some furniture).

Run a separate pipe and hose for each pump and exit the second hose in another part of the yard and in an area were you can work on the piping to unfreeze it or just work on it in an emergency. Test your pumps every six months!

 

[marinusdees]

A local motor repair shop probably also repairs sump pumps. A considerable part of their business is repairing **** pumps. Ask them motor shop to:
a) Rebuild your pump.
B) Recommend a new brand.
) Give you their best advice.

Then take it.

 

[Wamerjamer]

I have used the "watchdog" for many years.They make a coupla different levels.
I went from the basic to the to the " best" in their line.I really can't have another flooded basement.I even have a extra battery for it.The watchdog batteries are shipped dry.
You need to buy the acid and fill them yourself. At lowes they're together,mostly.

 

[jimindm]

I would check into the one that is powered by water pressure. That is, if you are not on a well system. You may have been without power a few days, but how many can say they have been with out of running water.

Yes it takes water to run it. Most evacuate on a 2-1 basis. One gallon city water, two gallons out of the basement.

 

[Pumpman1968]

- It is very valid that a pump sitting there not running for 2 years is prone to failure. There is a 'test' button on my backup pump that I would hit once a week or so to make sure the pump got some action. Occasionally I would pull the plug on the main pump during a storm to make sure the pump could empty the pit and the battery was ok.

Things like "test" buttons and running some water through the unit once a month is a little more than you can expect from most people..........no offense to the OP......or anyone else here. Things are put in the basement for storage.......not to be maintained. Kind of "out of sight out of mind". You may have the best of intentions on hitting that test button once a month.........but after 2 or 3 months of going down to the damp, musty basement just to watch water run, it gets old. Same reason why a LOT of people only call the furnace guy when the heat doesn't come on.......or the well pump has been clicking on and off for the past month and no one calls until there is no water because the pump motor burned out from a water tank with a bad diaphragm.

I realize that most guys on GJ are pretty involved with what goes on in their homes..........but that isn't how most of the world is.

I also understand that gen sets with transfer switches are expensive.............but I was just giving my opinion based on what I have seen in the field over the last 27 years.

Ya know, one suggestion I didn't see anyone give............why not find out where the water is coming from and put the energy and resources into preventing the problem rather than planning for it.

 

[farginicehole]

Things like "test" buttons and running some water through the unit once a month is a little more than you can expect from most people..........no offense to the OP......or anyone else here. Things are put in the basement for storage.......not to be maintained. Kind of "out of sight out of mind". You may have the best of intentions on hitting that test button once a month.........but after 2 or 3 months of going down to the damp, musty basement just to watch water run, it gets old.

Not offended at all, I agree with you for the most part. Although I would disagree with your assessment on basement usage and that they are only dank places of storage. In my neighborhood, most people have finished their basements and some are as nice as the rest of the house. Home theaters, game rooms, kids play rooms, etc. Most new homes have 9 ft. basements and egress for that reason around here. Also, the design of some houses, like a split foyer/level house, include the basement as part of the living space.

I'd also remark that if going down the stairs and pushing a test button is too much work for someone, how likely are they going to make sure the generator has fresh fuel and follow the maintenance schedule for test cycles and oil changes etc.?

Ya know, one suggestion I didn't see anyone give............why not find out where the water is coming from and put the energy and resources into preventing the problem rather than planning for it.

In the case of our duplex/townhouse, it was designed that way. The storm drain in the driveway, all of the gutters, and two points in the backyard all flow into the french drain. The only exit (because the ground is level) is via the 12" deep sump pit in the basement. The house was originally sold with a 1/3HP sump pump going into a plastic ribbed flexible pipe (which easily iced up) through a hole in the cement block to the outside. It is incredibly stupid as it ensures a sump pump failure floods the basement, yet according to the township it met code when it was built and was done on at least 8 other houses that I know of in the area. New stormwater management rules make it illegal to redivert any of the water flow (i.e. gutters cannot empty to the ground). One neighbor spent 7k excavating and adding gravel to the drain system and made no difference at all.

In the OPs case, if he has a 23 year old house and the pump only cycles a few times a week, he probably doesn't have major water problems. Something like the Zoeller system that someone else recommended could provide a layer of protection and some peace of mind without a huge investment.

 

[Pumpman1968]

Not offended at all, I agree with you for the most part. Although I would disagree with your assessment on basement usage and that they are only dank places of storage. In my neighborhood, most people have finished their basements and some are as nice as the rest of the house. Home theaters, game rooms, kids play rooms, etc. Most new homes have 9 ft. basements and egress for that reason around here. Also, the design of some houses, like a split foyer/level house, include the basement as part of the living space.

I'd also remark that if going down the stairs and pushing a test button is too much work for someone, how likely are they going to make sure the generator has fresh fuel and follow the maintenance schedule for test cycles and oil changes etc.?

Usually, larger gen sets have someone who reacts because they have service contracts........ and on smaller units someone reacts because when the power goes out because the tv doesn't work

People with finished basements have even less to do with their homes workings. The sump pump etc is in the little room that is crammed full of **** and no one goes in there until the middle of December........and that's just to get the Christmas ornaments

I do see your point and understand the "piece of mind" thing........but that also usually means "one less thing to worry about". Noone thinks about it again until there is a problem.

I am glad to see how zealous you are with the inner workings of your home.....and there are a pile of guys here on GJ that share your passion......but we are an uncommon group. Just look through all the threads from mechanics and see the pictures of engines that are gunked up because of people who only change the oil when the motor knocks.............or have brake work done after the rotors are worn through into the fins.........it's pretty common. One thing I have learned during my 3 decades in the service industry is that a LOT of people are lazy......and dumb........when it comes to home maintenance. I'll just leave you with a pic as an example..........enjoy!

 

[Thorold]

Resurrecting an old thread here. Just working on our leaky basement now - the house was moved here in 1935 and we have a very high water table ( lakefront property ).

Does anyone have experience with the water powered sump particularly the Liberty one i see online at Amazon ?

http://www.amazon.ca/dp/B0013H94MO/?tag=atomicindus04-20

 

[exmaxima]

Any suggestions?

I agree that Zoeller makes a good pump, and so do others. My recent problems were mainly SWITCH related---the float or pressure switches **** out more often than the pump.

Having just cleaned up my basement twice last year for bad switches, I installed an electronic switch:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00648OKAI/?tag=atomicindus08-20

It works with any pump, and I like the peace of mind of the monitoring features. No regrets.

Just realized this was an old thread----never mind!

 

[flat350]

The downfall of most pumps are the switch be it a float,mercury or diaphragm,the new one they are are pushing is a digital switch,can't say if if their good or bad yet.

 

[mobiledynamics]

I have had Zoeller and Liberty in the various houses I've owned. In the past I would say Zoeller, but I think Liberty would get the edge these days

 

[MackMan]

We have a bit of an unusual situation at our house. Our laundry room is in the basement, and the way it was set up was the washer drained into a pit which was picked up by a sump pump and pumped out to the sewer. A little over a year ago the old pump failed and we had a nice mini-flood in the basement. It's also a finished basement, but the laundry room where the pump is located is unfinished so most of the basement was unaffected.

We got a new pump from one of the distributors of this product
http://www.basementsystems.com/sump-pump.html

which looks like they use Zoeller pumps but it's also a sealed system. Our old "pit" was covered with just a piece of plywood sitting on it, and the stagnant water would start to smell, but with the new one there is no odor, plus the pump itself is silent (you can hear water going through the pipes, but you cannot hear the pump running).

It was about $1,000 for our application but a huge upgrade.

 

[P_I_Torque]

Great advice all around. I have Zoeller pumps in my basement. I have two pumps in my sump pit (one primary one backup), and one in my sewage pit. The pumps will last a lifetime, but as Maxima said above the switches are garbage. What I did was buy non-automatic pumps all around. In the sump pit goes the N57 (x2) and the sewage pit N267. These do not have switches, just a power cord which piggy back into an extremely reliable SJE Rhombus 10VM1WP Vertical Master Switch (x3), bought separately. The nice thing about the Vertical Master Switch is you get to manually set the start and stop water level. This allows you to maximize the pumping per cycle, since these pumps are life rated by cycles, one big cycle is better than two short cycles.

For backup, well the house is on a nat gas generator. Also, I have the water gravity pump for emergency (don't tell the city). Terribly inefficient but better than a wet basement.

Good luck!!

 

[Tyberius]

You test your battery backup pump yearly or twice yearly. It isn't really that hard.

Most will have a sensor that will test the health of the battery.