What to consider when replacing HVAC

[2Busy]

My downstairs unit is a 5 ton Goodman package (AC and gas heat), 12 years old and R-22. It’s still working fine and I’ll run it until it drops but we just had capacitors replaced and during that I got a quote on a replacement unit, just so I had an idea what kind of $$’s the replacement would some day run.

The quote really shocked me. For a Ruud 14 SEER 5 ton gas pack with 10 year parts 2 year labor warranty I was quoted $11,300. For 16 SEER $15,500. Includes new metal shroud and critter guard, crane for installation and hauling out old equipment but no duct mods or anything else major required. Note that the quote is from one of the big HVAC companies in the area, not an independent. They’ve given us ridiculous quotes in the past and I suspect they have once again.

So first question, you guys in the business—how close to reasonable are those quotes based on the info I shared?

Second question, what do you think of Ruud as a brand and what brands would you point me to or, more importantly, away from? I’ve heard that good install and service is more important than any particular brand but it would be nice to know whatever equipment I get has a reputation for reliability.

Thanks in advance for any advice, wisdom, direction you can share.

 

[driftpin]

Rheem/RUUD, Bryant, Carrier, Lennox, those are the better names I'd say, though I'm not a HVAC tech, nor a master license-holder; however, my friend is, 40+ years. He owns his own company in Palm Beach County FL.

I'd say, buy the best SEER you can afford, and ensure that you have good insulation in-place.

As an example, we replaced a 1980's system about 10 years ago, with a Bryant 19.5 system. Our August bills were cut in-half, and then-some. Not a big house, a CBS 1600 sq ft home & shingle roof, blown-in insulation in the attic. The system paid for itself within 4 years.

 

[Git]

We just had our 17 year old system replaced in May and went with a Costco contractor. For a price comparison, their very best Lennox system was $15k for a (4) ton. Lennox claims 'up to' 26 Seer for this unit (XC25) but that is going to be under ideal circumstances. Our existing ductwork would probably have to be replaced and upsized to get anywhere close to that. But, we went with it because it's variable speed and the outdoor unit is incredibly quiet - you can hardly hear it running. It certainly helped that our homeowner's insurance paid $8k of the replacement cost

A single speed unit was in the $10k range

 

[2Busy]

Appreciate the input.

 

[Jackfre]

You have to look at it, not only as an equipment replacement, but a system replacement. How is the duct work? Is it sized correctly? Does it have high leakage? Git mentions this in his post. Many contractors will do the hit and run of the equipment replacement and leave with a poorly performing system. Before replacing the equipment you have to be sure on the way in that the system will support your investment.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your dealer and installer are the most important considerations in selecting HVAC products.

 

[TangoFoxTrot]

FWIW, I just had a relative replace their unit with a basic split 5 ton Trane XR 14 Seer AC/Gas furnace this month. $6300 installed, but not a roof install.

The quote really shocked me. For a Ruud 14 SEER 5 ton gas pack with 10 year parts 2 year labor warranty I was quoted $11,300.

Just as a comparison, if this is the Rheem unit you are describing, it looks like it can be bought $3,800, so they are getting like $7,500 to install it. Maybe that's just a fluke deal?


https://www.budgetheating.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=170019&CartID=1

 

[Jeepster04]

FWIW, I just had a relative replace their unit with a basic split 5 ton Trane XR 14 Seer AC/Gas furnace this month. $6300 installed, but not a roof install.

Just as a comparison, if this is the Rheem unit you are describing, it looks like it can be bought $3,800, so they are getting like $7,500 to install it. Maybe that's just a fluke deal?


https://www.budgetheating.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=170019&CartID=1

Hmm, thats something. Can get a new setup shipped to my house for $3000....

 

[Busted_Knuckles]

Bought a new house in January, needed to add a compressor/condenser, PO just never bothered to add air, although someone installed an A coil, when the furnace went in 2017. I got 3 bids for the same spec, same brand, there as a $3000 spread between the high and low. The low was $2200, and the high was $5200.

Gets more interesting, I called 3 long established HVAC companies, and a friend of a friend that works as an HVAC tech for a university and moonlights,

The best price came from one of the HVAC companies, the second best price, came from the moonlighter ( about $200 above the low price ), one HVAC company would not provide a bid, and the last HVAC company was twice + the low guy.

I asked for exactly the same thing from all 4, size and brand and labor.

It pays to shop,.....

 

[danski0224]

My downstairs unit is a 5 ton Goodman package (AC and gas heat), 12 years old and R-22. It’s still working fine and I’ll run it until it drops but we just had capacitors replaced and during that I got a quote on a replacement unit, just so I had an idea what kind of $$’s the replacement would some day run.

The quote really shocked me. For a Ruud 14 SEER 5 ton gas pack with 10 year parts 2 year labor warranty I was quoted $11,300. For 16 SEER $15,500. Includes new metal shroud and critter guard, crane for installation and hauling out old equipment but no duct mods or anything else major required. Note that the quote is from one of the big HVAC companies in the area, not an independent. They’ve given us ridiculous quotes in the past and I suspect they have once again.

So first question, you guys in the business—how close to reasonable are those quotes based on the info I shared?

Second question, what do you think of Ruud as a brand and what brands would you point me to or, more importantly, away from? I’ve heard that good install and service is more important than any particular brand but it would be nice to know whatever equipment I get has a reputation for reliability.

Thanks in advance for any advice, wisdom, direction you can share.

Don't know about pricing, but you will certainly want to get two more bids for the same scope of work.

Five tons of cooling requires a lot of ductwork... higher SEER ratings require airflow.

The spread between 13 and 16 SEER for standard split system condensers isn't a lot at the wholesale level. I'd look for an economizer option (not sure on residential type stuff) and an energy efficient blower motor (ECM).

Running it until it drops could put you in a situation where you are at the mercy of whoever is available to do the work.

Equipment pricing has increased dramatically over the last 5 years due to tariffs, "standard" manufacturer price increases, and whatever other reason they can come up with.

Do not bet that the quote you have will be comparable a couple of years down the road.

 

[nadogail]

Quotes are usually good only for a limited time, because of price swings and other variables.

 

[aventino68]

Is it worth getting an HVAC engineer to have a quick look at how the rest of the building is looking for ductwork and insulation?. We're getting HVAC installation quotes but getting a separate engineer to design a system first.

 

[danski0224]

Is it worth getting an HVAC engineer to have a quick look at how the rest of the building is looking for ductwork and insulation?. We're getting HVAC installation quotes but getting a separate engineer to design a system first.

That would be the best way to go about it.

There are 3rd party options for the load calculation and equipment selection, typically performed by an energy rater. It would be highly unusual to hire someone holding an engineer title for the "average" or "typical" single family residential HVAC project. Things may be different in this regard between the USA and Canada.

But, there are difficulties in getting a HVAC contractor to do their job properly. There are no licensing or professional requirements in Illinois to call yourself an HVAC contractor (besides paying the city their fee to be a contractor), unlike a roofing or plumbing contractor. I'm sure that Illinois is not alone.

The lack of specifications makes it impossible to know what one is getting or to compare bids.

In any event, most here are looking for a spoon fed solution for their HVAC needs for free, and are willing to provide almost no information in the process.