What To Look For When Hiring A Structural Engineer?

[joey1320]

I have decided not to build a new garage on the back of my property and instead upgrade my current attached garage. I plan on turning a two car garage into a one car "workshop" and adding a new parking area next to the house with a lean-to over it for covered parking.

One of the main things I need done is to vault the ceiling in the garage in order to be able to use my scissor lift. I will also ask the engineer to provide plans to vault our first floor ceilings since my wife and I want to open up that space in the near future also.

Question is, what should I look for in an engineer? I emailed four different companies and only one responded. The guy was pleasant in the email and provided a "guesstimate" quote of $1,500 to provide plans for both ceilings.

Looking over his website, it's a very basic one with no real information on his previous work. Searching online for his name, I found his LinkedIn account and see he has been an engineer since 2009 and it's a member of both, "Structural Engineers Association of Ohio" and "American Society of Civil Engineers" since 2016 and 2018 respectively.

Should I be concern he wasn't a member since 2009/10?

His Google reviews, although but a few (7 Total), are all positive but one where the reviewer gave 3-Stars because he was upset about lack of communication even though the engineer responded and said he had told the reviewer he was going on vacation.

I'm only asking for help because I have read a few horror stories here about "engineers" who can't get the proper information to garage builders even though they are supposed to be the "end all be all" when it comes to planning.

Anything you recommend I ask?
I have never highered an engineer and don't want to screw this up.

 

[redneckracin]

In Ohio you can research a name to see if they are licensed. PA calls its the "pals" site. Here is what I found from Ohio. Look up in Ohio how to verify a license.

If he isn't listed on there, he is not an engineer capable of doing the work you require if permits are involved.

The society memberships mean absolutely nothing. You can pretty much figure $100-$150/hr to have the work done, and as soon as it needs sealed, you are probably looking at a minimum of $500-$1000.

I would be asking what type of work he regularly does. What type of background in wood construction that he has. I would as for a specific timeline to have the work done. I would also be asking the township/city/county specifically what they require to have things done correctly. I would also be very specific in what your deliverable is from the engineer so that he knows what needs provided and you know what to expect in your hand. It is also not unusual for costs to creep up easily when things change or an unknown comes up.

 

[Will Allen]

One of the main things I need done is to vault the ceiling in the garage in order to be able to use my scissor lift. I will also ask the engineer to provide plans to vault our first floor ceilings since my wife and I want to open up that space in the near future also.

.

Vaulting existing ceilings is no simple task. As a carpenter I know how I would do it.

Getting it past the permitting process could be a different thing.

 

[joey1320]

In Ohio you can research a name to see if they are licensed. PA calls its the "pals" site. Here is what I found from Ohio. Look up in Ohio how to verify a license.

If he isn't listed on there, he is not an engineer capable of doing the work you require if permits are involved.

The society memberships mean absolutely nothing. You can pretty much figure $100-$150/hr to have the work done, and as soon as it needs sealed, you are probably looking at a minimum of $500-$1000.

I would be asking what type of work he regularly does. What type of background in wood construction that he has. I would as for a specific timeline to have the work done. I would also be asking the township/city/county specifically what they require to have things done correctly. I would also be very specific in what your deliverable is from the engineer so that he knows what needs provided and you know what to expect in your hand. It is also not unusual for costs to creep up easily when things change or an unknown comes up.

Thank you for the informative reply. A quick Google search led me to the Ohio licensing site and I was able to find the engineer and he is indeed licensed.

I will contact the city on Monday and will ask for requirements before reaching out the engineer again.

 

[joey1320]

Vaulting existing ceilings is no simple task. As a carpenter I know how I would do it.

Getting it past the permitting process could be a different thing.

Correct!

I would trust a great carpenter to be able to do the work but would rather have all my T's crossed for safety/insurance reasons.

 

[Will Allen]

Correct!

I would trust a great carpenter to be able to do the work but would rather have all my T's crossed for safety/insurance reasons.

When I started out we cut all our own rafters and built all our own trusses.
I built many cathedral trusses. Them fancy store bought trusses weren't used much then.

I don't believe you could do that these days.

 

[joey1320]

When I started out we cut all our own rafters and built all our own trusses.
I built many cathedral trusses. Them fancy store bought trusses weren't used much then.

I don't believe you could do that these days.

Unfortunately with such an important component, that being the roof of the house, I'd rather not take any shortcuts and do everything by the book.

 

[Will Allen]

Unfortunately with such an important component, that being the roof of the house, I'd rather not take any shortcuts and do everything by the book.

Which means they will make you completely remove the roof and start over with new trusses.

 

[joey1320]

Which means they will make you completely remove the roof and start over with new trusses.

Hopefully not

 

[Will Allen]

Hopefully not

I don't see another way.

 

[LX-Markham]

To all that say you can’t vault a garage ceiling.....

Not easy finding a structural engineer as most work for large engineering firms. And most large engineering firms won’t want to take on little residential projects. Hopefully the one you have found will be right for your project.

See if you can’t get the building permit plans from the city. These will be extremely helpful to the engineer. It will also help in the search for an engineer is you can say “have existing structural drawings”. That takes a lot of risk away for the engineer.

 

[speed bump]

I would look for an engineer that specializes in residential and light industrial if possible. As an example the Structural PE we use for stuff that we want signed off on at work is really good with iron but doesn't do much wood, for something like your project he will tend to the extra conservative side. Otherwise I would suggest finding the person who you want to do the work and then using the engineer they prefer. Engineers tend to be picky and contractors tend to not like change they don't agree with. Getting people who already have a relationship saves a bunch of time if something is different during the construction process.

 

[joey1320]

To all that say you can’t vault a garage ceiling.....

Not easy finding a structural engineer as most work for large engineering firms. And most large engineering firms won’t want to take on little residential projects. Hopefully the one you have found will be right for your project.

See if you can’t get the building permit plans from the city. These will be extremely helpful to the engineer. It will also help in the search for an engineer is you can say “have existing structural drawings”. That takes a lot of risk away for the engineer.

Great idea in finding the original plans for the home. I'll ask Monday.

 

[justanengineer]

JMO but unless an engineer clearly advertises a decent amount of relevant experience then I’d find another. The big problem with hiring engineers today is that it’s a very broad profession so many become the jack of all trades but master none before going out on their own, and that’s what makes for a crappy (and unethical) engineer. Being licensed simply means he passed a (rather simple IMHO) test after four years working for someone else. Personally I’d want to see at least a decade focusing on residential construction under someone else and 4-5 years working for himself before considering hiring. If their resume shows ten years total experience over which they’ve designed everything from homes to bridges to Walmarts then I’d run far and fast bc you might get lucky or you might get screwed. LOTS of building depts refuse to do plan reviews today. If an engineer stamps it then it’s “good,” even when it’s not so don’t expect the AHJ to CYA.


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[My Old Tools]

I would be looking for an architect with engineering credentials.

 

[joey1320]

I would be looking for an architect with engineering credentials.

Why so, if you don't mind me asking?

 

[gallagher]

This is not work that you want messed up so make sure the engineer is legit. Use your general contractor for references. Also, your county or municipality might have a website where you can search for contractors and see any recent permits that they have been associated with. You could even call the homeowners of those projects and ask if they were satisfied with his work. I’ve done it before to reference check electricians and plumbers and it’s been very helpful. People generally want to be helpful in my experience.

 

[kwb]

Finding one that does small residential work is not easy. BTDT twice. That said I am a PE, my wife is a PE but wood isn't either of our thing and didn't really have any contacts. For fun I did the math but my area of license isn't going to stand up with the county for plans review. I also will say that the PE exam isn't "rather simple" it is a full 8hrs of testing crossing over a lot of areas that you may or may not have seen since college. Structural is an additional test on top of that.

Best advice in this thread is find out who your contractor works with - they are going to have some level of meeting of the minds already established.

What I have found is that you could get around stamped plans in a lot of cases but it makes it a lot easier/faster to go through the building department if they are stamped. My shop did require a stamp because wall height was over the "standard tables". The addition on the house could have gone through without a stamp and just noted that trusses would be stamped design.

All of this is very location specific. For me I have a notoriously slow and expensive county that I have to go through. People in city limits surrounding me can be in and out in a hurry for garages, additions... etc.

 

[joey1320]

Thank you both for the last two replies with good information.

 

[alexb2000]

I have dealt with this many times and never to my satisfaction.

It seems that most engineers want to use a software program that spits out the load calcs and they just stamp them. When you want custom work the cost often exceeds the value of the structure. Usually this happens because they want the structure so overbuilt using expensive materials that when you add their fees it becomes a no win.

For example I bought some bar joist used. I needed to modify them so I hired an engineer. By the time I got done it would have been 50% cheaper to just buy new bar joist. He added so much steel they weighed twice as much as a factory bar joist with the same length and ratings.

If I wanted to do a permit job I would just replace the trusses. If it was my house I would just do my homework and then do it since there is no external modifications.

Really a PITA no matter how you slice it.

 

[My Old Tools]

Why so, if you don't mind me asking?

Because architects are trained to work on buildings, and residential buildings in particular. Structural engineer may be trained in stress analysis, but may have never studied a wooden structure. Many are trained in aerospace, bridges, etc.

 

[WisJim]

My experience with architects is that most have no structural expertise or qualifications. (Based on working with a large office full of highly credentialed architects and engineers.) But you might get lucky.

 

[SALIV8]

The one time I contacted a structural engineer was a licensed one that was local.

They’re licensed and have professional liability insurance so if they stamp it, you’re good..

 

[Toolfool]

I always had a good working relationship with two building designers and two structural engineers. Never had any problems, no excessive costs, solid communication. We even learned a few things from each other over the years. If your contractor doesn't have a relationship with an engineer he might not be qualified to do the job.

 

[964haus]

Can you ask around and see who other folks have used?

 

[Hank11]

When I did this for a living, I had a recently retired PE who wanted a little retirement work. He had about 40 years of experience in structural design. It was great for both of us.

 

[joey1320]

I contacted a local GC with great local reviews online. I need to call him back later on today and hopefully he'll be able to come out and take a look at what we want done and quote me on it.

 

[nadogail]

IMHO, your best bet will be to look at some of the engineers recent projects and determine if they are relevant to your needs.

 

[kwb]

IMHO, your best bet will be to look at some of the engineers recent projects and determine if they are relevant to your needs.

You will struggle to find these guys to look at recent work that is relevant to homeowner type projects.

Most are very small outfits (many single person) they don't have websites or good websites, they don't have SEO budgets to show up in a search, and dealing retail is a money loser for them. Working with a contractor with a job in hand is how things are able to be done in a timely (profitable) manner.

For giggles lets do a bit of math - Engineer is going to bill $130-200/hr for your project. As far as billable time he maybe has 4-8hrs of work. He is going to field probably another 4-8hrs worth of questions and billing paperwork. Lets be generous - and say he does the job for $2000. From that he has taxes, E&O insurance, CAD/Structural Software, Office overhead, etc.... for all of that he maybe nets out $600 for a day and costs half of work. Hard to justify being in business as an engineer for that money. Might as well go get a salary job and have a predictable $120K income.

Now lets say same engineer has his GC that he works with - they speak the same language so to speak. GC says I need this, I want to do it this way to be cost effective to execute, can you run the numbers and stamp that. He doesn't have to do any design work. He crunches the numbers in a couple hours and bills him $1000 with all the payment details and paperwork probably handled on a net 30 arrangement. Probably nets out a far better hourly rate this way.

 

[gsmith22]

You will struggle to find these guys to look at recent work that is relevant to homeowner type projects.

Most are very small outfits (many single person) they don't have websites or good websites, they don't have SEO budgets to show up in a search, and dealing retail is a money loser for them. Working with a contractor with a job in hand is how things are able to be done in a timely (profitable) manner.

For giggles lets do a bit of math - Engineer is going to bill $130-200/hr for your project. As far as billable time he maybe has 4-8hrs of work. He is going to field probably another 4-8hrs worth of questions and billing paperwork. Lets be generous - and say he does the job for $2000. From that he has taxes, E&O insurance, CAD/Structural Software, Office overhead, etc.... for all of that he maybe nets out $600 for a day and costs half of work. Hard to justify being in business as an engineer for that money. Might as well go get a salary job and have a predictable $120K income.

Now lets say same engineer has his GC that he works with - they speak the same language so to speak. GC says I need this, I want to do it this way to be cost effective to execute, can you run the numbers and stamp that. He doesn't have to do any design work. He crunches the numbers in a couple hours and bills him $1000 with all the payment details and paperwork probably handled on a net 30 arrangement. Probably nets out a far better hourly rate this way.

THIS is exactly the problem and the reason you aren't going to find a competent engineer by yourself - get a contractor on board that has the connections to a competent engineer. Give me a client that feeds me jobs like this (say 1 a month to fill in gaps) and I will answer the phone. I probably wouldn't answer the phone for under $10k on a one off job. ALL competent structural engineers will (or at least should) have the same mindset. Its great to have the knowledge to be able to do the underlying work, but you have to be in business first. And businesses have overhead that needs to get spread out across all work. Its probably a big job for you, but a nothing burger (in the grand scheme of things) for the engineer. Which is why the contractor connection is the key. You could get lucky finding your own engineer but I would be more concerned that you found someone unqualified trying to take on anything that walks in the door.

 

[Toolfool]

joey1320, don't get discouraged. I'm new in Tallahassee with zero connections here. After a LOT of useless referrals, I found a structural engineer who did my retaining wall and monolithic slab calcs and drawings for $800.

 

[Daniel Dudley]

You want an old guy who is semi retired. They do it on the side, and will often do the calculations on the spot or in a couple of days. They are happy to get 300 bucks for an hour or two of time, where the guys with the office want 1500 bucks and make you wait.

They can be hard to find, but they are around, and they don't sales pitch you or BS.

 

[gsmith22]

might I suggest that the OP post some pictures of the existing structure and let the masses here opine on the potential to raise the existing roof system(s) (there is a discussion of the garage and first floor of house?). I can feel the OP's pain about paying for someone to show up and look only to say no can do. Why don't you feel out the feasibility here first and then find your local engineer to do the necessary design, calcs, drawings work once you know what possibilities exist. You are getting me for free right now while eating lunch

 

[joey1320]

I contacted a local GC with great local reviews online. I need to call him back later on today and hopefully he'll be able to come out and take a look at what we want done and quote me on it.

General contractor came in today with his architect. Both extremely amicable. I showed them the "attic" above the living room and they both said it would be a straight forward project.

They talked about it between themselves and then told us, my wife and I, that they would utilize collar ties, abut 2-3 feet under the peak, in order to remove the ceiling joists and vault the ceilings and it was up to us if we wanted a flat roof in the middle or they could wrap the collar ties for an "exposed beam" look.

I asked about replacing the current ridge beam with a larger one and adding posts to carry the weight down to the foundation and was told it wasn't needed if we were okay with either the flat middle portion of the roof or the exposed beams.

Buuuuuuuttttttttttttt as far as I'm aware a collar tie is not the same nor does it perform the same as a ceiling joist.

Am I correct or what?

 

[joey1320]

might I suggest that the OP post some pictures of the existing structure and let the masses here opine on the potential to raise the existing roof system(s) (there is a discussion of the garage and first floor of house?). I can feel the OP's pain about paying for someone to show up and look only to say no can do. Why don't you feel out the feasibility here first and then find your local engineer to do the necessary design, calcs, drawings work once you know what possibilities exist. You are getting me for free right now while eating lunch

Will do. Thanks for the recommendation.

 

[dcg9381]

Should I be concern he wasn't a member since 2009/10?

His Google reviews, although but a few (7 Total), are all positive but one where the reviewer gave 3-Stars because he was upset about lack of communication even though the engineer responded and said he had told the reviewer he was going on vacation.

I'm only asking for help because I have read a few horror stories here about "engineers" who can't get the proper information to garage builders even though they are supposed to be the "end all be all" when it comes to planning.
I have never highered an engineer and don't want to screw this up.

I would not be concerned because the engineer decided not to pay his "professional tax" into his professional society.... I haven't been an IEEE member for more than a decade.

What matters is if he's got a stamp and can do the calculations correctly. It's his **** on the line if he's stamping drawings that are done incorrectly... And it's not like these are hand-calculated things anyway, in most cases what the engineer is doing is feeding things into software (yea, which must be done correctly).

I've dealt with 2 types - one for framing structures (walls, trusses, etc) - but only new construction. They're provided as a courtesy (or at a very reduced cost) by the companies that provide lumber and trusses. We've also used a foundation engineer, provided by the company that does soil analysis... Current price on that is $1500 or so for a foundation and large 1/2 basement retaining wall.

 

[joey1320]

I added a new album with roof pictures.

The room is 21' by 25'. The architect and general contractor, as stated above, want to add collar ties to the roof system and vault it that way.


https://www.garagejournal.com/forum/album.php?albumid=7726

 

[dcg9381]

I'm an engineer (not structural) - I would not be concerned about his membership in the professional society. Engineers get an educatation and pass some tests and get the ability to "stamp stuff". In the vast majority of cases, we're not sitting around manually calculating anything anymore. We're feeding it into software and then putting our signature (stamp) on it.

I don't necessarily agree that you need a "high-end structural engineer" - when I've used structural engineers, they're *usually* part of a group that is selling us something - trusses, framing, etc - their engineering is often rolled into buying a package of materials at a free or discounted rate, pretty standard when building residential and you need an engineer's stamp. Go for one of these "high end" guys when you're doing something complicated - like a stadium or odd-ball non-standard construction - perhaps stuff that's outside the scope of software packages or is not easily plugged into software.

These one off / change jobs - I think $1k-$2k for analysis and stamp is probably "in the ballpark". It's more on the owner communicate (appropriately) the existing structure and desired change order for the engineer to be able to do the appropriate calculations.

FYI: Take my above opinion for what you paid for it...