What Tool Advice Backfires or Is Ignored

[jonshonda]

When Tool Advice Backfires or Is Ignored

After dropping the kids off at grandmas for some outside swimming fun, I made a supply run to Menards to hold me over for the upcoming week.

I had recently done some pretty extensive research on impact drivers and drills from Bosch, Milwaukee, and Dewalt as I needed to replace my 10yo Bosch setup. Last week I had decided to jump ship from Bosch cordless tools, and went with Milwaukee (the 2997-20 if you are curious! ) But I was still curious to swing over to the tool isle and see if I had buyers remorse.

While I was there, a noticed a guy had "The Freak" Bosch impact in his cart, and was looking at a few other power tools as well. I casually asked "Is that the latest and greatest version?" to which he replied "it better be!". It wasn't and I had suggested that he consider the updated version as it was smaller and more powerful for not too much more money.

He proceeded to put it back on the shelf and then grabbed the latest version. I asked what he was working on, he was building a deck. I also suggested a drill and driver combo pack due to the many long term benefits of having both tools and two batteries at your disposal. He then replied "I'm not looking to spend a lot of cash", and I agreed that they weren't cheap but you might be surprised how much they would come in handy.

He then started eyeing up the 12 volt Bosch stuff, which was my hint to exit stage right. He proceeded to swap the 18 volt driver out for a 12 volt drill, and said "thanks for the help". "Yup....good luck with the deck!"

I really had no reason or right to say a single word to that guy. I was just excited from my recent research project and for some reason felt compelled to offer my unsolicited knowledge. What I had done had the reverse effect of what I had intended, and that guy will be kicking himself after he has driven a few dozen screws and his battery needs to be recharged. If I had kept my mouth shut, would he have made a better choice and kept the much more powerful impact driver in his cart?

 

[tonyciambrone]

that guy should've bought the 2997-20 as well

Great combo

 

[TheLawnRanger]

You warned the guy. It's on him now.

 

[M635_Guy]

For deck-stuff, the SURGE is an awesome tool.

 

[LXCam]

So another words...

..ya led the guy to water and he decided to drown himself.


Shame on you

 

[Nineeightyone]

I've occasionally struck up a conversation with folks on tools, but I don't give advise unless prompted. On the other hand, saving money is a safe bet -- I've occasionally been in Harbor Freight and given someone a paper coupon, or told them about the HFQPDB app, and generally the reception is quite warm.

 

[lardy1]

I don't think there would be many occasions that I'd do more than be polite if I were the guy being advised. Unsolicited tool advice from a total stranger? In a big box store?

 

[aka Larry]

I've helped several people in Lowe's when either the employee didn't have a clue, or wasn't to be found. Once after watching an employee try to help a woman find a nut to fit a LAG bolt. That time I did ****-in, but otherwise I only offer help if asked.

 

[64merc]

Unless the guy looks like a contractor in a hurry, I try and do the same thing as the OP did (especially if they are seniors). You can usually tell right away if they are receptive to the info or not. Sometimes it's hard to tell though. lol

A lot of guys don't have anyone to bounce ideas off of, or don't have time to watch hours worth of Youtube videos.

 

[Willie Makeit]

I tend to mind my own business unless I am asked for advice. That's just me. <shrug>

 

[anavrinIV]

Having just built a deck (did the decking boards this past weekend) I shudder at the thought of having to use a drill for the screws. My impact driver took that beating like a champ....the drill has other uses

 

[toolmiser]

I pretty much stay out of those situations, unless asked. And then remember where you are at. I try to remember that most people don't want great quality but rather a cheap price, so I don't have much to offer.

 

[jonshonda]

Having just built a deck (did the decking boards this past weekend) I shudder at the thought of having to use a drill for the screws. My impact driver took that beating like a champ....the drill has other uses

I guess I don't know exactly what type of deck he was building, but having used nice tools and having build a few decks in the past, I would say a nice drill and impact driver are d@mn near a requirement imho.

That is the reason I stepped up from brushed and 1.5aH to brushless and 5aH batteries. I should be able to work remotely for a decent part of the day with both the drill and impact and not have to worry too much about charging batteries.

I did get my mom a nice Bosch 12v drill, as it was small and light weight. I have used a few times and it would be perfect for small stuff around the house. But building a deck with it.....NOPE!!

 

[Handyandy23]

Re: the actual point of this thread, I generally don't feel comfortable giving people advice in hardware stores, mainly because there are usually a lot of factors you don't know. Or a lot of info you'd need that people don't have.

A few times I've been in an aisle like plumbing or electrical and someone will say "hey do you know a lot about this stuff?" and I'll just downplay what I do know and end it there. I know enough to do my own stuff, but I'm no professional, so I'm not going to give out advice.

I might speak on tools I actually own if asked, but generally I don't think people are looking for unsolicited advice.

 

[Leaflessshadetree]

How did anyone build a deck before this "latest/greatest" Bosch (that you didn't buy) came out? The first 1/4" impact I ever used was a cheap no-name chinese. That was when most cordless were less than 10V (7,2 IIR). It was still pretty good at driving deck screws.
I'm betting the 12V will work just fine for him. Through this and future projects.

 

[ChevyEFI]

I considered the SURGE, but really wanted the most power I could afford and the SURGE was down a bit on power compared to the 2853

2760 Surge Maximum Torque: 450 inch-pounds rating
2853 Maximum Torque: 2,000 in-lbs

Is that apples to apples, or am I really missing out with my Surge?

 

[rijndael]

2760 Surge Maximum Torque: 450 inch-pounds rating
2853 Maximum Torque: 2,000 in-lbs

Is that apples to apples, or am I really missing out with my Surge?

 

[anavrinIV]

I guess I don't know exactly what type of deck he was building, but having used nice tools and having build a few decks in the past, I would say a nice drill and impact driver are d@mn near a requirement imho.

That is the reason I stepped up from brushed and 1.5aH to brushless and 5aH batteries. I should be able to work remotely for a decent part of the day with both the drill and impact and not have to worry too much about charging batteries.

I did get my mom a nice Bosch 12v drill, as it was small and light weight. I have used a few times and it would be perfect for small stuff around the house. But building a deck with it.....NOPE!!

I have an 18V Makita LXT brushless set with 2 4.0ah and 2 5.0ah batteries. All of my cordless setup is on this platform and not a single tool has ever skipped a beat. I drove in 1500+ screws 3-3.5" long with my 1/4" impact and went through about 2 batteries in the driver

 

[jonshonda]

How did anyone build a deck before this "latest/greatest" Bosch (that you didn't buy) came out? The first 1/4" impact I ever used was a cheap no-name chinese. That was when most cordless were less than 10V (7,2 IIR). It was still pretty good at driving deck screws.
I'm betting the 12V will work just fine for him. Through this and future projects.

They used corded tools with lots of torque. And a nice impact driver serves a lot more uses then driving deck screws. I use mine to do lug nuts and most fasteners on my vehicles when I don't feel like spinning a ratchet, and it is great for that! But there is no doubt he will enjoy his new purchase. I justified spending a lot of money on my drill/driver because I expect them to last 10+ years, and use them a lot. So why not get the best I can afford?

2760 Surge Maximum Torque: 450 inch-pounds rating
2853 Maximum Torque: 2,000 in-lbs

Is that apples to apples, or am I really missing out with my Surge?

I watched this video before buying. Lots of blabbing, but good info none the less. If I am doing a lot of driving w/ the impact, I wear hearing protection or am typically listening to music anyways.

I have an 18V Makita LXT brushless set with 2 4.0ah and 2 5.0ah batteries. All of my cordless setup is on this platform and not a single tool has ever skipped a beat. I drove in 1500+ screws 3-3.5" long with my 1/4" impact and went through about 2 batteries in the driver

I have no doubt that a single tool is perfect for many, a great argument for ymmv. But I cannot tell you how many times I use a drill for pilot holes, and the driver to drive the screw. Like at the end of a deck board, I don't like to drive the screw w/o a pilot hole for fear of splitting.

 

[Handyandy23]

2760 Surge Maximum Torque: 450 inch-pounds rating
2853 Maximum Torque: 2,000 in-lbs

Is that apples to apples, or am I really missing out with my Surge?

Apparently this is due to the difference in how hydraulic impacts (like the Surge) work. They provide max torque for a much longer period of time, so area under the curve is actually larger than a regular impact that hits a peak 4x larger, but only for a brief moment.

So it's not really comparing apples to apples. The Surge will likely drive a deck screw faster than the 2853, it just generates power in a different way. This is also likely why Milwaukee doesn't show the Surge torque figures on their website anymore, to avoid confusion.

 

[anavrinIV]

I have no doubt that a single tool is perfect for many, a great argument for ymmv. But I cannot tell you how many times I use a drill for pilot holes, and the driver to drive the screw. Like at the end of a deck board, I don't like to drive the screw w/o a pilot hole for fear of splitting.

Oh I definitely piloted the ends. Also piloted for lag bolts in the pergola. Here's some of my collection, all headed back to the garage after a very long weekend of use. And for posterity, a picture of the (almost complete) deck

 

[glend123]

Most people are cheap, which isn't really a bad thing. But, they tend to not be able to make the right decision on when to step up and spend some money on something that will work better and make their life easier. I just bought the cheapest right angle drill last year, used it twice to drill 2 holes to run coax. If i was going to drill 100 holes, I'd buy a better one.

 

[jd_1138]

OP, don't feel bad. You tried to help the guy. Had you continued on with the advice of "12V isn't really beefy enough for rough carpentry projects; 18V is better if you're going with one or the other", he might've been offended. Sounds like he's just ignorant.

Some 12V impact drivers are pretty powerful like the Milwaukee Fuel, but for a person on a budget 18V stuff is a better choice for general use. My Makita 18V impact driver is more powerful than a Milwaukee 12V Fuel impact driver.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

My 1/4" cordless impact is the most used cordless tool I have by a factor of 10 or 20 times. I do a lot more woodworking than wrenching. It has the ability to drive screws almost anywhere, it's compact and powerful. It doesn't mess up bits and screw heads like a variable speed drill motor does. Of all the advances in portable power tools in the last 50 years, I consider the lithium ion cordless 1/4" impact at the very top.

I've learned the cost difference in portable power tools between say brushed and brushless is not that great. A couple of years down the road, you will be glad you went for it.

 

[jonshonda]

Back on topic, we camp a lot with another family who also has a travel trailer. I have invested lots of time and money into batteries so we don't have to worry about having electricity. Trying to get them to understand batteries has been a nightmare. My suggestions typically are ignored, even though they continue to seek my advice.

Them: Should we get a bigger battery? Me: I would get two big batteries (we have three and know how to conserve energy).

Them: Well we already have one battery! Me: It's old and cheap, and will just drag your new battery down to its level.

Them:I can just change it out during the wknd. Me: Yeah you could, but it's a pita to have to fold in your bunk end (hybrid camper) and change it out.

Them: Jonshonda can you hold up the bunk end for me, it's to heavy! Me: NO!

Them: I know you absolutely hate generators but we don't want to mess with batteries. What about this Honda 3000 watt generator. Me: That would work but it's 150 lbs and I'm not coming over to lift it into the back of your truck!!

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I'm getting tired of all the precautions, and it's only been 4 months and another 20 to go if we are lucky. The rules have been relaxed , but the risks are the same.

 

[woody 73]

I tend to keep to myself and not bother shoppers about 99.5 of the time, but occasionally I see that deer in the headlights looks coming from a homemaker and I try my best to help them out a little bit.

At best I always ask their price range and go from there; better to be a informed consumer I always say. I also enjoy when people help me out because I figure they had been there before and their intake is important to me.

 

[Ryan]

I've cleaned this thread up and re-opened... A reminder - this place isn't here for you to discuss the merits or demerits of wearing a mask.

 

[Downwindtracker 2]

I think I got my best deals on tools when I wore a mask and carried a gun. Sorry I couldn't resist.

I'm feeling more ambitious, so I'll continue on the cordless 1/4" impact driver. I think it's over 50 years ago when Skil brought out the variable speed, reversible 3/8" drill motor. Being a Canuck we use Robertson screws, so driving in a screw to hold an electrical box was a breeze. In those days the genuine Robertson screws and bits matched perfectly, one bit would last a long time. Certainly not the case now. But with the impact driver bits last.

 

[ChevyEFI]

They used corded tools with lots of torque. And a nice impact driver serves a lot more uses then driving deck screws. I use mine to do lug nuts and most fasteners on my vehicles when I don't feel like spinning a ratchet, and it is great for that!

I watched this video before buying. Lots of blabbing, but good info none the less. If I am doing a lot of driving w/ the impact, I wear hearing protection or am typically listening to music anyways.

Apparently this is due to the difference in how hydraulic impacts (like the Surge) work. They provide max torque for a much longer period of time, so area under the curve is actually larger than a regular impact that hits a peak 4x larger, but only for a brief moment.

So it's not really comparing apples to apples. The Surge will likely drive a deck screw faster than the 2853, it just generates power in a different way. This is also likely why Milwaukee doesn't show the Surge torque figures on their website anymore, to avoid confusion.

https://toolcraze.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/08/unnamed-2-2.jpg

thanks guys. When people talk about doing lug nuts with their imp. driver and my Surge wouldn't, it left me wondering. No longer.