allinon72
Well-known member
SK is still too expensive to be a replacement brand.
What tool brand to replace Craftsman?
- Thread starter mdnelson86
- Start date
jakemac
Well-known member
So far, the conversation has centered on quality and cost. The main reason that Craftsman was the go to brand for the masses was that it was readily available at your local Sears, or through their catalog. That's why I think that Kobalt and Husky will be next go to brands for this generation. I find that realization to be sad. 
Too expensive compared to what?
bcradio
Well-known member
Craftsman... They really fit as a step up from craftsman rather than an equal.
woody 73
Well-known member
I posted a business report in the free parking about sears tonight, they are not doing well. I wonder if and when the time comes would they spin of the Craftsman name? I would just hate to see that happen.
jakemac
Well-known member
They've already started. Craftsman is available at Ace and other hardware store chains. Preparing for the inevitable I guess.
I just hope they stay out of the box stores. The craftsman name at locally owned stores would be a big boost to the small business owners.
I just hope they stay out of the box stores. The craftsman name at locally owned stores would be a big boost to the small business owners.
Brownsfan
Well-known member
You beat me to it. You can buy craftsman at Ace Hardware, summit racing, now the Anderson's general store in Ohio Kmart(granted it's the same company). Let's hope if it happens someone like SK buys the name and keeps it going. I know sears has NEVER made a tool and neither had craftsman really they just have it made for them. The name itself is one of the most recognized and iconic brand names ever. Dare I say top 5? Ask a random person what they think of when tools are mentioned and 95% will say Craftsman. That said the name itself is far too valuable to die. Someone will keep it going if sears folds.
Tonight my wife was at K-Mart buying winter coats for the nieces, and I walked over to the tools to peruse the Craftsman offerings. They had a 20 piece 3/8" ratchet set with a RP ratchet and sockets. "Made in China". It was on sale for $10. I would've bought one to have a spare ratchet for my car tool box, but I would rather buy USA made tools. They had a set of wrenches on sale for $19 -- lobster claw city.
They had an Evolv toolbox set on sale for $79 that looked pretty cool. I liked the shade of grey. It had an upper box and a roller cabinet below.
They had an Evolv toolbox set on sale for $79 that looked pretty cool. I liked the shade of grey. It had an upper box and a roller cabinet below.
Good point, my top five would be (Coca-cola, Craftsman, McDonalds, Harley Davidson, Apple)
I remember another great American brand in the 1970's that had a battle with corporate bean counters and almost lost the war - that company was Harley Davidson and look at them today.
Craftsman is the most recognizable name in tools with a history going on 90 years, that type of brand recognition can no be duplicated in our lifetime. It has more value then any other tool franchise in the world, put this company into the right hands and they will do very well.
allinon72
Well-known member
I read today that the Lands End brand will likely spin off into its own store. That might be the start the house of cards falling.
Sears is a holding company, more like a real estate company at this point, because thats the only capital left. They aren't even trying when it comes to their stores and the ShopYourWay rewards program is reportedly eating the company alive.
As for the Craftsman brand, what's left of it? Almost all Chinese in its current form; only to get worse if spun off. I can't think of any scenario where it would be revived to its former glory.
Seems like that would be good since Craftsman is a step down from where they used to be...
I agree! My replacement brands for Craftsman are Carlyle, Gearwrench and Kobalt. Napa, Lowes and tooltopia.com all have sales frequently enough so that their tools are similar in price to Craftsman. Carlyle and Gearwrench are a step above in quality compared to craftsman IMO. I really prefer Carlyle tools though. For me the quality, fit and finish and features of their tools are the best I can afford. The warranty is tops too. My local Napa store said they will warranty anything that says Carlyle on it, so long as the name is visible. No reciepts, no store credits, no BS. Just bring in the busted Carlyle tool and get a new one or at least order a new one, on the spot no questions asked. My local Napa guys confidently stated that the fine print about having to keep your receipt for Carlyle tools is just corporate covering themselves legally. Almost any tool that says Napa, Carlyle, and even Evercraft can be warrantied so long as they have a similar old tool to base the warranty on.
No tool brand currently has wide enough base and distribution to compare with . . . .
. . . . .what Craftsman used to be.
Holding company & management for Sears obviously does NOT have a clue how to maintain and grow an extremely valuable brand name . . . . .that's a shame, because in retrospect, Craftsman really was an American icon.
Thus, going forward wrenchers wanting USA made quality tools that are affordable will migrate to more and more SK and Armstrong, along with portions of Craftsman line that remain high quality. Fill-ins and impulse purchases will migrate to Kobalt and Husky just from mere fact that Lowes & Home Depot are dominant forces in consumer market.
. . . . .what Craftsman used to be.
Holding company & management for Sears obviously does NOT have a clue how to maintain and grow an extremely valuable brand name . . . . .that's a shame, because in retrospect, Craftsman really was an American icon.
Thus, going forward wrenchers wanting USA made quality tools that are affordable will migrate to more and more SK and Armstrong, along with portions of Craftsman line that remain high quality. Fill-ins and impulse purchases will migrate to Kobalt and Husky just from mere fact that Lowes & Home Depot are dominant forces in consumer market.
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Does that mean you don't consider SK as a replacement brand?
I used to put all my eggs in one basket by buying all craftsman tools when they were USA made. I've since learned that I could have bought better tools cheaper in some cases. I don't miss craftsman at all except for the ocassional need for replacing a broken tool in a set such as a ratcheting combo wrench. Now that they've gone to ****, ill just buy a nos replacement off fleabay if need be. Since I stopped giving sears my money, I've bought sk, gearwrench, kobalt, Williams, and a few hf items. I'm not losing any sleep over it.
Correct. The thing I liked about craftsman was the fact that they were available locally, easy to warranty in store and reasonably priced. The made in USA part put them over the top. I try to buy as many things as I can that are made in USA but I wont jump off of a bridge for buying things like hand tools that are not made here.
Maybe I am not looking in the right places but there is no where to but SK locally, in my area at least. The prices look alot higher than the others I listed also. Some tool sets from Carlyle appear to be priced similarly to SK (too high for me) but then Napa offers a 10% AAA or Military (I have both) discount everyday on Carlyle tools if there is no actual sale going on. Also consider that there is no shipping charge from Napa, like there will be on SK if you are ordering them online. If I am buying SK tools online because they are not available locally, doesn't that mean mail in warranty also? Maybe I just havent done my research but SK tools just don't seem like a very good choice to me. Sure they maybe good quality and american made but there are other factors involved for me.
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Many great and worthy brands have been mentioned, and I own tools from just about all that are mentioned.
I do want to add another brand to the mix: ELORA. Tools made in Germany. Visit www.bloomertool.com The owner of that site is the USA distributor. While not a one stop shopping place, I enjoy using Elora wrenches. He also offers ELORA's budget Elofort line. The Elefort line is however Asian made.
He sells in sets and individual pieces. He does not stock the entire Elora line, but what he has listed is in stock. However he can get anything you want from the Elora lineup.
I do want to add another brand to the mix: ELORA. Tools made in Germany. Visit www.bloomertool.com The owner of that site is the USA distributor. While not a one stop shopping place, I enjoy using Elora wrenches. He also offers ELORA's budget Elofort line. The Elefort line is however Asian made.
He sells in sets and individual pieces. He does not stock the entire Elora line, but what he has listed is in stock. However he can get anything you want from the Elora lineup.
Brownsfan
Well-known member
That I agree with you 100% on and it is very sad!
Sadly, in 20-30 years, there will be people chatting online about how they love and miss their quality "vintage" Kobalt and Husky handtools.
I already miss my quality Husky hand tools.
kythri
Well-known member
I can only speak for myself, but it really depends on what you have local in that respect.
I've got access to a place that stocks a bit of SK, but it's not a wide selection. It's cool that they have it, but at this point of my tool buying life, I already own pretty much everything they stock (common stuff, common sizes), and everything else is "oh, we can order that for you" coupled with "you'll have to pay shipping/freight."
If I'm buying a small number of items at the local place, it's about the same as buying it online wherever I can find it cheapest, once you factor in shipping. If I'm buying more than a handful of pieces, I save a massive amount, even after factoring in shipping.
When I need to make a special order on something, paying freight on top of that? Well, whatever price parity to Carlyle that may have existed, it erodes pretty quickly.
I just recently filled my empty pegs with Carlyle stuff, after researching a number of similar price-point brand's catalogs for open stock sockets.
Ultimately, buying Carlyle from a local NAPA, while not on sale in my local area, was significantly cheaper, both from a price-per-socket standpoint and from a shipping standpoint. I also had my merchandise FASTER than had I ordered online.
If my local store didn't have it, they had the ability to get it from other nearby stores in the same franchise, or they could pull it from the nearby distribution centers, and it was, max, a day or more to get the stuff.
Another bit in Carlyle's favor was that they seem to have one of the most inclusive ranges of socket sizes. There were more than a couple sockets that I couldn't find in the other brand's catalogs, whereas Carlyle appears to have every socket I would need (with the exception of the 1/4" drive 5/8" stuff).
Granted, I realize that I'm already mixing brands between my Craftsman stuff and my Carlyle stuff, but it appealed to me to minimize the different brands/styles of sockets on my trays.
They're definitely more expensive than Craftsman. I know of few other places you could buy new good quality sockets (regardless of COO) at ~$1/socket and have a pretty wide variety of sizes.
About the only time you're going to find a deal like that anymore would be somebody's tool set on-sale, and while they may be decent quality stuff hitting that price point, there won't be open stock available for purchase - something like the tool sets that big box places sell.
Wow-it seems like on every post someone is recommending SK Tools. It almost looks like SK is running a marketing program on GJ
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My real job is economics/business analysts. I think the Craftsman USA obituary is way to pre-mature. If I had to make a bet on Craftsman, as well as other tool companies bringing their manufacturing back to the USA in the next 5 years - I would take the bet that they would all be back. The US in in the process of devaluing their currency against the developing market economies (China, India, etc) and China is experiencing high inflation because of their rapid growth causing their wages to increase, these two reasons will bring back lots of manufacturing here to the US in the next 3 to 7 years. Keep the faith.
u118224
Well-known member
Wow-it seems like on every post someone is recommending SK Tools. It almost looks like SK is running a marketing program on GJ
SK is what I've been buying because they're US made and represent good value. Even Snap-On has some good values on individual items. I don't trade at NAPA, so I don't know anything about their tools. I doubt I'd be interested in them anyway.
woody 73
Well-known member
Tsquare I hope you are right and craftsman comes back strong; years ago I could not get a salesperson even if I got on the floor and played dead. Now 40 years later when I walk in I am surrounded like a queen bee and the place is always dead.
Something tells me if they can make a buck they will spin off the craftsman name, but then again I hope you are right in your thinking.
Something tells me if they can make a buck they will spin off the craftsman name, but then again I hope you are right in your thinking.
cburnscrx
Well-known member
My real job is economics/business analysts. I think the Craftsman USA obituary is way to pre-mature. If I had to make a bet on Craftsman, as well as other tool companies bringing their manufacturing back to the USA in the next 5 years - I would take the bet that they would all be back. The US in in the process of devaluing their currency against the developing market economies (China, India, etc) and China is experiencing high inflation because of their rapid growth causing their wages to increase, these two reasons will bring back lots of manufacturing here to the US in the next 3 to 7 years. Keep the faith.
Since we're going down that road, what do you think of Ed Lampert and his involvement with Sears? Do you really think he'll keep it going long enough for this to happen? I think he wants the stores to fail so he can sell off Craftsman (the Chinese manufacturing just increases his margin on the books when he sells the brand) and he'll then sell off the real estate which has a higher value than the actual store anyway. I seriously doubt that the real estate has the value they claim it does, but I digress.
+1
I am finding great deals on hard line recent model snap on. As far as mix and match goes, seems to me the ball on a ratchet and the hollow in the socket have to match. My snap on ratchets don't fit craftsman sockets or extensions too well.
So I have all snap on ratchets, shallow chrome sockets, screwdrivers (old hard handles) and ratchet wrenches. I like snap on pliers but chose Knipex from Chads. New talon duck bills from snap on are probably nicer than knipex.
Still have old craftsman impacts, love them. Most of my other craftsman stuff is shot after 20 years of weekend wrenching.
Can't beat used snap on hard line tools. Expect to pay double for lightly used snap on compared to new craftsman. I paid $100 for each socket set, $30-100 for practically new ratchets (each) $150-200 for new wrench sets on ebay. To me this was a good deal.
Mid 90's USA made husky tools were the ****, especially the long pattern combo wrenches. I have a full set in both sae and metric. I keep a close eye on them and they never leave my garage.
Toolgarage
Well-known member
i might be wrong but matco rebrands alot of craftsman and gear wrench why not use them both even tho there not usa made
Something to think about:
All Wal-Mart would have to do is offer and advertise no-questions asked lifetime warranty exchanges in their stores and Stanley tools could take over the Craftsman mantle overnight. They already have the name recognition, and 90% of non-professionals don't care at all about the COO. Honestly, their tools aren't half bad either. They look and feel on par with the Taiwanese lines at Home Depot, Lowe's, Auto stores, etc.
Warranty convenience is the single biggest advantage that Craftsman had/had going for it. I'll never buy SK, Armstrong or Proto because I have no idea how to exchange one of their tools when it breaks. Wal-Mart could become the new standard in warranty convenience if it chooses to.
All Wal-Mart would have to do is offer and advertise no-questions asked lifetime warranty exchanges in their stores and Stanley tools could take over the Craftsman mantle overnight. They already have the name recognition, and 90% of non-professionals don't care at all about the COO. Honestly, their tools aren't half bad either. They look and feel on par with the Taiwanese lines at Home Depot, Lowe's, Auto stores, etc.
Warranty convenience is the single biggest advantage that Craftsman had/had going for it. I'll never buy SK, Armstrong or Proto because I have no idea how to exchange one of their tools when it breaks. Wal-Mart could become the new standard in warranty convenience if it chooses to.
nicksnothereman
Well-known member
If I need (or want) something I tend to buy kobalt, I get certificates for 20 bucks from my credit card and it's close to my house but otherwise the quality is very good for a store brand (in my opinion) especially on tools I won't use too much. The hammers they sell are pretty good but not usa. Usually if it's taiwan it's good, if it's china it's probably not but you gotta look at what you're buying and go from there.
People seem to hate them with a passion though.
If you do heavy mechanical work on vehicles their sockets are good if you plan it right (impact on most bolts torqued over 60 ft lbs (my cut off) and use of heat gun/pb blaster). People will run into problems with most stuff if they're just throwing tools at fasteners that are beyond the abilities of the tool.
Otherwise, you're better off getting stuff online "dead-stock".
nicksnothereman
Well-known member
This is why I buy most retail brands with said warranty. Oddly enough, even though I use those tools a lot I have never replaced one. The only thing I've replaced is a home depot "workforce" wooden handled drilling hammer that wasn't husky; head was coming off after a couple hours of heavy use. Replaced with fiberglass handled one.
I don't like the idea of buying tools at walmart but if you do work at night...at least they have some stuff. I wish it were more (and better quality) but it is what it is. There's one 24 hour autozone about 1/2 hour away besides that...not happening at 3am!
Brownsfan
Well-known member
I remember those tools. That was when they would exchange their tools for a competitor at no charge. Who made those tools for Home Depot? The late 90's early 2000's Kobalt stuff was great as well. I still hear people say their tools are made by Snap On. Over 10 years later.
I like Proto/Blackhawk they are my choice to replace Craftsman now that Chinese kids make them. Im different than the others because Im really not impressed with S-K. I think S-K over prices there tools in comparison with their quality. I have extremely well made Proto/Blackhawk tools that compared to any manufacturer wins hands down. Although I must admit I don't like proto ratchets, I much prefer Snappy or Matco. There are a couple of Euro ratchets I'm gonna order to see if they live up to the hype.
byoungblood
Well-known member
Wow-it seems like on every post someone is recommending SK Tools. It almost looks like SK is running a marketing program on GJ
It is reasonably priced, of very good quality (if you ignore the periodic cosmetic defects and look at them as a functional tool only), and made in the USA. Only issue for most is finding a place that sells them locally. 7-8 years ago there were a couple of auto parts stores where I could walk in and buy S-K all day long. Now everyone only wants to sell you imported trash.
I do not know what Lampert is going to do with Sears, I have only followed their story from a distance. My comments regarding Craftsman as well as other tool manufactures leaving the US only to come back to the US some time in the future because the currency exchange rates make it favorable, will most likely happen (this is a normal business cycle). The real estate holdings should only go up in value in the future as the cycle of inflation becomes more prevalent in the years ahead - so I do not see a need to sell at this time. What is curious to me is how they have priced their online shopping vs the store shopping. I can go online and buy my Craftsman tools, have them delivered to a store near me for free and pay 5% to 25% less then in the store. This makes me believe they are going to move more of their business to an online model and maybe only have stores in key geographic locations to support their walk in and online customer base.
Now, will they be able to keep Sears and it's brands a successful business going long enough for all this to happen, if this is their plan - I do not know, it will be a tough road. I do believe Craftsman Tools will survive in one form or another. Me, I am happy with my Craftsman tools, they fit my needs, they have served me well over the last 35 years and I do not need to spend an arm and a leg to have a complete set of USA made tools. But, The best part for me is - my first mechanics tools set was a 78 piece set I bought (with my own money) at Sears in 1976, I still have (most of) these tools today and they bring back fond memories of many projects including my first car and using the knowledge my dad passed on to me when I was younger on how to repair all kinds of things as a DIY'er - my Craftsman tools help me keep these memories alive - no amount of money or shiny new Brand of tool can buy or replace that.
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