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What Tools Getting Worse Over Time? Which Getting Better?

oldschoolcraft

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Which tool types (not brands) are getting better and worse over time? Please let's stick to tool types (such as wrenches, ratchets, pliers, screwdrivers, etc) rather than any individual tool brands since that's another topic entirely.

Metallurgy gets better over time, but it doesn't necessarily translate into us getting better tools on the market. Sometimes, we get worse tools since manufacturing costs have gone up and tool companies degrade quality to maintain competitive pricing.

From what I've seen, ratchets have gotten better over time, with higher tooth gears, probably only allowable with modern manufacturing methods to get the tooth count so high.

Pliers seem to be better on a design standpoint, such as Knipex Cobra, and although I can't speak to the steel metallurgy, I imagine the newer enhanced design shapes make the tools overall better, even if steel quality might have dropped.

Screwdrivers I'm not sure of but I'm in the market for a high quality precision set and it seems like people have reported an overall drop in quality in even the high end brands. Possibly due to cheaper metallurgy.

Overall, my purpose of this thread is to figure out:

1- What tools should we buy used, not necessarily for cheaper price, but because older is actually better, and even if older was sold more expensive than new, you're better off with the older version?

2- What tools that are on our wishlist, but we don't immediately need, should we consider buying sooner rather than later, because the quality keeps dropping over time and buying now will result in a higher quality tool than 5 years from now.
 
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Tennessee Cattleman

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Good hand tools can still be had for a fairly reasonable price from Snap-on, Mac, SK, Proto, etc.

Quality electric power tools such as drills, angle grinders, circular saws, etc. can still be found for reasonable price and are lighter in weight today, but a lot are made in China.

Good heavy built, quality machines such as drill presses, lathes, etc. are hard to come by new at a price point most people can afford and quality used machines are in high demand.

Electric welders have pretty much gone to inverter based machines that are priced pretty reasonable and easy to carry, but are prone to having the $500+ circuit boards replaced or toss the non working inverter welder in the trash. The old transformer electric welders would last for decades.

High quality air compressors, especially less than 5 hp. are becoming scarcer and more expensive.
 
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oldschoolcraft

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Thanks for replies so far guys. I think I'm going to have a lifelong addiction to tools, even ones I don't necessarily need or use regularly. So I'm trying to figure out what I should buy sooner rather than later before quality drops.

One example is Knipex. I absolutely love their pliers and I'm worried it's only a matter of time before they start outsourcing to Czech Republic like Wera and some other German brands. Might still be just as good if they do, but I want the German-made tools. I have absolutely no indication Knipex will do this, but it's the general market trends.

I'm a big country of origin guy, even though I know it doesn't matter that much, it's the principle.
 

PFSard

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Seems unlikely that someone will be able to predict how, where, what (etc) tools will be produced in the future. What manufacturers will be producing what tools. Improvements in technology altering the landscape. With the ever increasing competition from globalization, rapid changes in technological advances, et al. Look at the advances in power tools over the last 50 years or so.

I'd make a list of what tools I'd estimate that I need to buy. Probably use a spreadsheet. Estimate current prices from different manufacturers. Proceed from there. As in, how much money is involved? There is also a great used tool market (used everything market actually) available now. Yard sales, estate sales, eBay, Craigslist, OfferUp, etc.

As for your Knipex scenario, maybe they'll produce in a so-called third world country a higher quality product at a significantly reduced cost.
 
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victor252

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I don't know why people keep thinking that the Czech Republic means low quality.

The CZ 75 was one of the best of pistols you could buy in the last century and since the the Cold War ended, the quality and variety of CZ guns has only increased.

I've never seen anyone write that they were unhappy with Wera products either.

Germans probably make a better car but a ratchet is not a Mercedes.
 
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oldschoolcraft

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I don't know why people keep thinking that the Czech Republic means low quality.

Here's why I am against the move from Germany to Czech Republic:

If Czech Republic made better tools than Germany, then they'd have been making the tools from the beginning. Unless you believe the Germans convinced the world to buy their German-made lower-quality tools at a higher cost of production.

The reason to move production from Germany to Czech Republic must either be because CZ is better at making tools, or is cheaper, or both. I argue that CZ is not better at making tools than Germany, or they'd have been the dominant market leader all along. Thus, it must be a cost savings reason.

So by buying a CZ-made tools, you're doing so because of cost savings to the manufacturer, not increased quality.

If you want cost-savings, you wouldn't buy Snap On or Knipex, you'd buy Harbor Freight. So either you're more concerned with quality or more concerned with cost. The reason I pick Knipex or Wiha is because made in Germany, otherwise if I didn't care about COO I'd go with HF.

Now that's not to say CZ is low quality, because it isn't. But it's not as good quality as Germany. Couldn't possibly be, or they'd have been making it there from the beginning at a lower cost from the start. And I want the absolute highest quality tool. Of course, you might want a reasonably-quality tool at a reasonable price. And I'd argue Taiwan makes very reasonably quality tools for a better price than CZ.

So why bother with CZ at all? Not the highest quality, and not the most reasonable value. Either go with HF for cheap/low quality, Taiwan for mid-price/mid-quality or Germany/US for high quality/high price.
 
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M6erfan

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I don't know why people keep thinking that the Czech Republic means low quality.

The CZ 75 was one of the best of pistols you could buy in the last century and since the the Cold War ended, the quality and variety of CZ guns has only increased.

I've never seen anyone write that they were unhappy with Wera products either.

Germans probably make a better car but a ratchet is not a Mercedes.

CZ .22 rifles are very nice.
 
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Ole Slewfoot

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There is some break in time, but all tools pretty much get worse with age.
Its pretty slow with some of them, I have 100 year old wrenches I could hand to most people and they would not notice anything.
 

Ole Slewfoot

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One example is Knipex. I absolutely love their pliers and I'm worried it's only a matter of time before they start outsourcing to Czech Republic like Wera and some other German brands. Might still be just as good if they do, but I want the German-made tools. I have absolutely no indication Knipex will do this, but it's the general market trends.

I'm a big country of origin guy, even though I know it doesn't matter that much, it's the principle.
Why do you hate Czech people? Is it because their minimum wage is 1/3 that of German people?
 

MushCreek

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Oh boy- I can just see the day when HF starts selling firearms....

I think that cheap tools have improved tremendously. Yes, a lot of it is still ****, but I have a HF 1/2" ratchet that is worlds better than an older American one I have.
 

JJ_From_NC

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Similar experience here I bought a 1/4 and 3/8 Pittsburgh Pro ratchets to have as backups for my USA Craftsmans, well next thing I know I'm reaching for them first, their smooth action and low profile head is really nice for some of the machines at work, I can't speak for longevity but for 15 bucks with a lifetime warranty and all I have to do is walk in the store to replace it I'm not concerned about it too much...

Sent from my SM-G930R4 using Tapatalk
 

finn

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One example is Knipex. I absolutely love their pliers and I'm worried it's only a matter of time before they start outsourcing to Czech Republic like Wera and some other German brands. Might still be just as good if they do, but I want the German-made tools. I have absolutely no indication Knipex will do this, but it's the general market trends.

I'm a big country of origin guy, even though I know it doesn't matter that much, it's the principle.

So, basically, you’re saying that you believe strongly in racial stereotyping, and that, other than your preferred coo, other people are inferior and incapable of making quality tools.

You should run for president.

If Bosch takes advantage of tax incentives and lower labor rates to build a factory in the Czech Republic, they, or Malaysia, or China, for that matter, they use the same specifications, automation, material specifications, and corporate quality systems as they would if the factory was located in Munich or Dusseldorf.

It’s no different than if a corporation builds a factory in some low tax, low wage state in the US instead of a traditional manufacturing state like NY or Michigan.
 

kythri

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Lebanon, OR
Which tool types (not brands) are getting better and worse over time? Please let's stick to tool types (such as wrenches, ratchets, pliers, screwdrivers, etc) rather than any individual tool brands since that's another topic entirely.

You say this, but then:

One example is Knipex. I absolutely love their pliers and I'm worried it's only a matter of time before they start outsourcing to Czech Republic like Wera and some other German brands. Might still be just as good if they do, but I want the German-made tools.

:headscrat

I have absolutely no indication Knipex will do this, but it's the general market trends.

Really? It's the "general market trend" that German manufacturers are outsourcing to CZ?
 
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