what type of torch for this application

[NY Old Guy]

I am replacing my alternator on my 1970 Triumph motorcycle soon, and I know the bolt holding the alternator rotor in place on the end of the crankshaft has been attached using red loctite. I believe I need to use heat to remove it. So I'm going to add a torch to my tool collection for this purpose, which I'm sure will come in handy later on for other work as well.

This is probably about a 3/4" bolt that is attached with the red loctite I need to remove with heat applied.

Should I use a propane torch or is there a smaller one such as butane that would work well in this situation.

So for this task what torch is recommended?

 

[Buckgnarly]

Oxyacetylene.....everyone should have one!

 

[jeffk14]

I'm thinking the smallest, torch you can get your hands on so you won't overheat the surrounding area.

Shouldn't need to get it too hot. IIRC, red loctite turns loose at somewhere under 400 degrees F.

 

[EdT]

IMHO. To soften the locktite I would think an ordinary propane torch would be more than adequate. Oxy Acetylene is hot enough to melt things faster than you might expect especially if you've not used it before. That and an OA rig with tanks and all will cost 10 to 15 times more than a simple bernz-o-matic from any hardware store.

 

[Outlawmws]

SNIP

Should I use a propane torch or is there a smaller one such as butane that would work well in this situation.

So for this task what torch is recommended?

Prop, Bernz-O-Matic.

The little butane guys won't produce enough heat in a reasonable time IMO.

Concentrate the heat on the bolt head, dead center with a steady hand, (Block it in place if you can) and not too large of a flame, with the tip of the blue spike kissing the bolt head. What you are trying to do is heat the bolt and not the nose of the crank. The idea is the heat travels up the bolt faster than into the crank, and softens the lock-tite.

Once you get it out, I'd replace the bolt.

The O-A torches suggested are way overkill, especially in the hands of an inexperienced operator, in this situation.

 

[Steevo]

I have worked on Triumph motorcycles many times throughout my career, and never needed anything more than minimal heat (propane torch or even heat gun) to soften hardened red Loctite on alternator bolts.
Apply the heat directly to the bolt itself, not to the alternator rotor, trying to get it to transfer only down the bolt threads to the Loctite, and not to the surrounding materials.

 

[NY Old Guy]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll get a propane torch, and try to be very careful with the heat application. This is the first time I will have used a propane torch, would it be expected that the bolt would start to glow red or how do you know when you have gotten it heated up enough? Cheers

 

[skruft]

I usually use a Mapp gas torch or acetylene plumbers torch and heat until it's red unless there is some reason I can't (like something nearby that could be damaged). I have seen many pictures of people using oxy-acetylene and I have one but have never had to use it for this.

(But maybe just try a wrench first. I can't see heating if it comes off the regular way.)

 

[skruft]

I usually use a Mapp gas torch or acetylene plumbers torch and heat until it's red unless there is some reason I can't (like something nearby that could be damaged). I have seen many pictures of people using oxy-acetylene and I have one but have never had to use it for this.

(But maybe just try a wrench first. I can't see heating if it comes off the regular way.)

 

[ibedayank]

standard propane torch works just fine

 

[suss427]

Thanks for all the suggestions, I'll get a propane torch, and try to be very careful with the heat application. This is the first time I will have used a propane torch, would it be expected that the bolt would start to glow red or how do you know when you have gotten it heated up enough? Cheers

I have not had any decent sized bolts glow with propane. I would definitely go for oxy-acetylene if you have the room and cash and use a small tip. As far as when it is ready with propane... if anything else around it starts to melt, and when/ if it starts smoking pretty good. Also when you get tired of holding it with no effect (30 sec to 2 min or so).

With oxy acetylene, when it turns cherry red

Something of equal or lesser oomph than this should work well: http://www.google.com/products/cata...=X&ei=cn-OTonFCsaFsgL7ztmIAQ&ved=0CKABEPICMAY

Propane is pretty useless on larger stubborn bolts, plus you can weld really nicely with oxy-acetylene if you are ever so inclined as it is by far the BEST and easiest way to become a kickass welder.

Although for your application a propane torch should be just fine, just be careful controlling the direction of the torch. The cheapies tend to spit a large flame so watch out 1 ft in direction of torch and at least 6 inches above torch flame. Reduce flow and hold closer to reduce stray heat.

Good luck, torches rock!

 

[diesel research]

IMHO. To soften the locktite I would think an ordinary propane torch would be more than adequate. Oxy Acetylene is hot enough to melt things faster than you might expect especially if you've not used it before. That and an OA rig with tanks and all will cost 10 to 15 times more than a simple bernz-o-matic from any hardware store.

I might add, they are also 100x more useful when needed.

Add a "jewelers torch" set and get to burning.

Once you learn how to use one (OA torch in general), it will become a favorite tool for so many things.

 

[suss427]

I might add, they are also 100x more useful when needed.

Add a "jewelers torch" set and get to burning.

Once you learn how to use one (OA torch in general), it will become a favorite tool for so many things.

totally agree, get a cinder block and some loose nuts + bolts and see what it takes to get them hot, and then melt them a bit to understand the threshold and practice a neutral flame. That will help you understand what tip size to use and how fast it works as well as the warning signs that you are about to melt.

Use a smaller tip size and try, you can always go bigger.

Also you can weld nuts and bolts together for shits and giggles to get an idea of what happens when / how it melts. Youtube has a bunch of good tutorials as well.

 

[ibedayank]

suss427



you have no CLUE on triumphs do you??
right behind that nut is a ALUMINUM rotor with steel magnetized shoes cast in it.. all this is on the crankshft

Do i know what I am taliking about...Yeah I do being working on the is my JOB

 

[daveroy]

http://www.harborfreight.com/pencil-torch-94185.html

 

[WR250F]

I would give a good heat gun a try before hitting it with a torch of any kind

All you need is enough to loosen the loctite, you aren't removing solder or welding anything.

Loctite red, holds pretty well, but it doesn't turn into something requiring massive heat to break

Heat gun on high, minute or so, then try it with a long handled ratchet and good fitting socket. If you need to heat it a little more, just go slow and you will get there.

Having a reason to pick up a OA rig is certainly fun, but ibedayank is right about not wanting to heat the area behind it too much.

...and YES, I've removed that exact bolt on that exact bike before.

Heat gun and some patience and a little arm will allow you to break the bolt loose without (potentially) creating other problems.

But, definitely buy a OA rig for good measure, just use it on something else

ETA: I've also used a soldering gun tip pressed against a bolt for a while to break red loctite

 

[Mstrfxit12]

Turbo torches are great. Its and air acetyne setup. It has quick disconnect tips and you can get large tips for large jobs and small tips for small jobs.

 

[ibedayank]

boss says...
just use an impact if the nut does not come off the stud that its on will thats screwed into the crank

 

[NY Old Guy]

Thanks for all the responses, and digging this thread up after a few days!! Appreciate the advice. I'm pretty "fired up" to do this repair. I bought a hand held impact driver (a Koken Attack driver you hit with a hammer) to remove the pozidrive screws on the primary cover and a couple of big old snap on 1/2 inch drive ratchets (I'm still building a tool collection) to deal with the rotor nut. Do you guys recommend any type of heat gun? If the stud into the crank end comes out should that be re-attached with red loctite? This is a great forum, there's a lot of people out there with awesome real world experience willing to share their thoughts and expertise. Thanks a lot guys .. cheers

Here's the old fella I'll be working on:

 

[CaseyJoes.]

Permatex says you only have to get the bolt to 450* to release the red threadlocker, so I wouldnt think you would have to have much more than a propane torch?

 

[ibedayank]

NY

No use blue loctite..
no reason for red

use regular air impact on the nut...
why do you want to remove it?

 

[NY Old Guy]

Hi. I'm upgrading my charging system. The bike loses a little battery voltage when riding with the headlight on (at about 3000 avg. rpm), so I have to trickle charge the battery quite often (new battery). The bike has a Boyer electronic ignition, so it requires a relatively well charged battery to work well. So the bike has the original alternator on it still and I'm figuring it's not putting out enough charge. So, I figured I'd put a new alternator stator and rotor for better charging.

So you think when I reinstall the rotor nut and possibly the stud into the crank if it comes out, blue loctite is a better choice than red? I actually don't have a powered impact wrench, so I figured I'd heat the nut and use a long 1/2 inch drive ratchet or breaker bar to remove the rotor nut (with the engine in gear and the rear brake on). So I was figuring I'd get a heat gun so that the heat is directed precisely to the bolt head and into the threads and also this way not applying too much heat.

 

[ibedayank]

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-electric-impact-wrench-68099.html

buy this

comes in very handy when taking apart other things on the bike

 

[NY Old Guy]

will do, thanks for the tips, cheers

 

[WR250F]

http://www.harborfreight.com/12-electric-impact-wrench-68099.html

buy this

comes in very handy when taking apart other things on the bike

That ought to work just fine

The trumpet is simply beautiful, that's a real classic.

 

[ephotrod]

Air Arc !
Josh

 

[ibedayank]

Here is what the Op wants to take apart...

 

[2oolhound]

I'm not sure what the specified torque setting is for this bolt but I would try to twist it off with 30 - 40% more torque if necessary (or until you feel the fillings in your teeth starting to pop) before using any heat. Make sure it's not left hand thread.

If you don't have one already, get yourself a good shop manual for your bike that has all this info in it. That's the best tool to start with.

Regarding torches, the oxy/acetelene (OA) is my choice because the hotter flame can heat a more localized area. Just the head of a bolt will get cherry red whereas other torches that aren't as hot will heat down the bolt and into the surrounding parts before the desired temp is achieved. The OA can be turned down or moved in and out to slow down the heating process so you have all the control plus as others have mentioned they are great to have around for cutting and welding.

 

[2oolhound]

Looking at the photo it would be unlikely to have any locktite as it has a tab washer to lock it in place. I believe that is a sleeve bolt.

 

[ibedayank]

thats not 1 motor...thats 2
remember that is a 40+ year old bike
what I said to do IS FROM THE MANUAL
If I have any questions on the bikes...I ask the boss who has been working on Triumphs for over 40 years and at one time was a factory dealer