jcp907
Well-known member
What do you think? Hire a GC or go directly to the subs?
What value does a GC add?
- Thread starter jcp907
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rslaback
Well-known member
A GC adds a couple of things that you cannot do yourself. One is schedule priority. If a GC works with a sub a lot (and they usually do) the sub is much less likely to bump you on their schedule (and you may even get a bump) which keeps the whole project on schedule.
A GC may also get you a better or equivalent deal. It seems counter-intuitive when there is an additional business involved but you need to figure in that a GC very likely will get a better deal than you would directly.
Both of these come down to a continued and substantial relationship between the GC and the subs that as a one off project you simply cannot develop.
A GC may also get you a better or equivalent deal. It seems counter-intuitive when there is an additional business involved but you need to figure in that a GC very likely will get a better deal than you would directly.
Both of these come down to a continued and substantial relationship between the GC and the subs that as a one off project you simply cannot develop.
Angelfire
Well-known member
Besides the project management etc....that the GC provides, they serve some other very important functions/considerations. They are the ones that assume all the liability for the workers on your site. If you hire subs directly, you are in essence acting as the GC. If one of them gets injured and that sub doesn't carry workmans comp, they'll be coming to you for the money. They also are taking on the role of ensuring contractual compliance and such. Many people don't want to deal with this side of the business. Depending on your state laws, they may also provide a shield for liens against you by suppliers and such if the subs are not paying their bills. They also are responsible for all the incidentals such as toilet facilities, waste containers, etc...often these things are overlooked by folks acting as their own GC.
Personally, I did a fairly good size extension/remodel on my home as well as my new garage. I acted as my own GC. There were definitely times I wished I hadn't but in the end, I'm glad I did. Just be ready for subs that don't show up when they said they would or show up when you said not to. And if you're planning to do any of the work yourself, you'll need to make sure you get your bits done on time so as to not delay the subs. Delay them, and they may never show up again. You will also be responsible for the building inspections. A GC usually has a relationship with the inspectors which can go a long way towards a successful project. Talk with the inspector before starting anything if for no other reason than to see where they stand on you doing your own GC work. Many don't like it and make the homeowner pay dearly in terms of both money and schedule.
Personally, I did a fairly good size extension/remodel on my home as well as my new garage. I acted as my own GC. There were definitely times I wished I hadn't but in the end, I'm glad I did. Just be ready for subs that don't show up when they said they would or show up when you said not to. And if you're planning to do any of the work yourself, you'll need to make sure you get your bits done on time so as to not delay the subs. Delay them, and they may never show up again. You will also be responsible for the building inspections. A GC usually has a relationship with the inspectors which can go a long way towards a successful project. Talk with the inspector before starting anything if for no other reason than to see where they stand on you doing your own GC work. Many don't like it and make the homeowner pay dearly in terms of both money and schedule.
GYPSY400
Well-known member
I went with a GC for the build of my garage.. Way less stress! And things like Permit ******** and prioritizing jobs is his problem. I just contracted the shell, and I'm doing the interior myself.
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jack stand
Well-known member
All very good point's here fella's!
There are pros and cons to using a gc and not, figure you can save some money buy being your own gc, BUT you are going to have to do some work. I am a GC but do all my own building the only time I built houses for people is when they were in my developments and they bought the land off of me...
If its something like a garage, and you have the time to baby sit, gc it your self, and do as much work as you can yourself.
Something else to keep in mind, if you are taking a loan out to build something, sometimes banks wont let you gc your own project.
One of the strongest positives I see to being your own gc, is you pick your subs, you get to meet with them, see their work, see their price, etc... With a gc, they usually use their own guys that they work with, so you are stuck with them guys.
With the amount of guys doing sidework right now {in my neck of the woods}, you can build the entire thing your self, if local codes permit it, run an add on c-list for laborers, and buy a book on how to build what you want to build, lol... I know someone who just built their entire house this way and it came perfect... He literally only hired out for the sight work, the foundation work, driveway paving, kitchen counter tops, septic system, well, and electric hook up, he ran all the wires from the box, all the internal plumbing, all of the hvac {I helped}, all the framing, roofing, siding, and finish work himself with $15 an hour laborers, he had guys begging him to work for him, he found some really really good guys, one guy used to build houses with his father who recently passed away, and I knew of him, they did some very nice houses, and he knew a lot...
We did the math he saved about 100K doing it himself...
If its something like a garage, and you have the time to baby sit, gc it your self, and do as much work as you can yourself.
Something else to keep in mind, if you are taking a loan out to build something, sometimes banks wont let you gc your own project.
One of the strongest positives I see to being your own gc, is you pick your subs, you get to meet with them, see their work, see their price, etc... With a gc, they usually use their own guys that they work with, so you are stuck with them guys.
With the amount of guys doing sidework right now {in my neck of the woods}, you can build the entire thing your self, if local codes permit it, run an add on c-list for laborers, and buy a book on how to build what you want to build, lol... I know someone who just built their entire house this way and it came perfect... He literally only hired out for the sight work, the foundation work, driveway paving, kitchen counter tops, septic system, well, and electric hook up, he ran all the wires from the box, all the internal plumbing, all of the hvac {I helped}, all the framing, roofing, siding, and finish work himself with $15 an hour laborers, he had guys begging him to work for him, he found some really really good guys, one guy used to build houses with his father who recently passed away, and I knew of him, they did some very nice houses, and he knew a lot...
We did the math he saved about 100K doing it himself...
Automobilist
Well-known member
Hiring a general contractor essentially relieves you of financial liability as well. The G/C vets & gets quotes from the subs. He/She assembles all these quotes into a bid package, along with their overhead, additional expenses & profit. That contract dollar amount is what you will pay for the job. If the contractor underestimates, he is still bound to produce your project at the agreed to (contract) price. Material or labor costs increase, the G/C pays. Conversely, if he can get it done for a bit less, the G/C wins.
We also recommend the use of a builders fund control. An independent inspector comes by and verifies the billed for work is done according to plan before they authorize payment. All subs are required to guarantee they have fully paid for all materials, etc and are responsible for any costs they have incurred. The upside to that is the fund control company essentially does all the bookkeeping on your project, to the penny, and produces a nice spreadsheet report every week.
Some contractors will try to get you to agree to a "time & materials" deal. I won't go for that trick, as it leaves YOU liable for cost overruns. Do you often hear of construction projects coming in for less time or money than anticipated?
No, you do not. That is uncommon.
The other advantage of hiring a G/C is again, the real life aspect of dealing with someone who does this every day, knows the tricks of dealing with governmental agencies, can plan a good proposed timeline (and stick to it!) has long standing relationships with the myriad of subcontractors, and can accurately estimate materials, etc.
I am an expert at what I do. I hire experts in their fields to do what they do best. That's usually the straightest path to a job well done.
We also recommend the use of a builders fund control. An independent inspector comes by and verifies the billed for work is done according to plan before they authorize payment. All subs are required to guarantee they have fully paid for all materials, etc and are responsible for any costs they have incurred. The upside to that is the fund control company essentially does all the bookkeeping on your project, to the penny, and produces a nice spreadsheet report every week.
Some contractors will try to get you to agree to a "time & materials" deal. I won't go for that trick, as it leaves YOU liable for cost overruns. Do you often hear of construction projects coming in for less time or money than anticipated?
No, you do not. That is uncommon. The other advantage of hiring a G/C is again, the real life aspect of dealing with someone who does this every day, knows the tricks of dealing with governmental agencies, can plan a good proposed timeline (and stick to it!) has long standing relationships with the myriad of subcontractors, and can accurately estimate materials, etc.
I am an expert at what I do. I hire experts in their fields to do what they do best. That's usually the straightest path to a job well done.
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RivennHewn
Well-known member
To me, it would all boil down to how well versed you are in understanding contracts, scope of work, specifications and such.
without a complete understanding of what each sub does, and doesn't do, you can open yourself up to a lot of change orders and up-charges.
The one thing a GC has going for them is relationships with subs, that you can't compete with. You will be seen as a one time deal.
You won't be shown the same urgency that a GC receives.
Also, you'll have to deal with all the stuff that falls between the sub-contracts yourself.
Any capable person can do it. The question is how much time will it cost you, and can you make more money at your day job?
without a complete understanding of what each sub does, and doesn't do, you can open yourself up to a lot of change orders and up-charges.
The one thing a GC has going for them is relationships with subs, that you can't compete with. You will be seen as a one time deal.
You won't be shown the same urgency that a GC receives.
Also, you'll have to deal with all the stuff that falls between the sub-contracts yourself.
Any capable person can do it. The question is how much time will it cost you, and can you make more money at your day job?
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rslaback
Well-known member
Some contractors will try to get you to agree to a "time & materials" deal. I won't go for that trick, as it leaves YOU liable for cost overruns. Do you often hear of construction projects coming in for less time or money than anticipated?
I have to take issue with this. My dad and I used to do a lot of Time and Material jobs. The client is always responsible for changes to the original design so your point about cost overruns is kind of mute. Also consider that if we bid a job with a hard estimate we need to pad the job to account for any unforeseen issues. Most of the time not everything we planned for potentially going wrong went wrong. That means that if we had done it time and material instead of estimate and contract, the client would've paid less.
If you know you want X contractor to build it and you trust him/her, time and material is likely going to save you some money. In all honesty we took some jobs at time and material that we would've never even put a bid out on for contract work. Jobs like putting an addition onto a 80 year old farmhouse that will include a partial remodel is a job that is a nightmare to bid because you almost never know what you are going to find once you get started. That is why you see a lot of guys who jump right into new construction but shy away from remodels and additions.
Hiring a general contractor essentially relieves you of financial liability as well. The G/C vets & gets quotes from the subs. He/She assembles all these quotes into a bid package, along with their overhead, additional expenses & profit. That contract dollar amount is what you will pay for the job. If the contractor underestimates, he is still bound to produce your project at the agreed to (contract) price. Material or labor costs increase, the G/C pays. Conversely, if he can get it done for a bit less, the G/C wins.
We also recommend the use of a builders fund control. An independent inspector comes by and verifies the billed for work is done according to plan before they authorize payment. All subs are required to guarantee they have fully paid for all materials, etc and are responsible for any costs they have incurred. The upside to that is the fund control company essentially does all the bookkeeping on your project, to the penny, and produces a nice spreadsheet report every week.
Some contractors will try to get you to agree to a "time & materials" deal. I won't go for that trick, as it leaves YOU liable for cost overruns. Do you often hear of construction projects coming in for less time or money than anticipated?
The other advantage of hiring a G/C is again, the real life aspect of dealing with someone who does this every day, knows the tricks of dealing with governmental agencies, can plan a good proposed timeline (and stick to it!) has long standing relationships with the myriad of subcontractors, and can accurately estimate materials, etc.
I am an expert at what I do. I hire experts in their fields to do what they do best. That's usually the straightest path to a job well done.
If the sub contractors do not get paid they can put a lien on the house and the home owner will have to pay that, at least in New Hampshire. The GC can scamper away with the money and the home owner is on the hook.
FullRaceMerc
Well-known member
In California that is true about everyone who provides labor or materials & doesn't get paid. Wise customers require signed lien releases from the GC & subs at the time of payment. We provide them whenever asked. As long as the bill is paid.
We explain the mechanic's lien in our contracts. Customers seem frightened by it at times. One recently chose not to use us because that description frightened them. They did not understand that a mechanics lien could be still filed by anyone who worked on their house who wasn't paid, even if another company didn't tell them that up front. Typically they understand that it isn't an issue that as long as everyone is paid. And a good GC pays his subs & suppliers. But if the client is concerned they should require lien releases.
An advantage to a good GC is their ability to get the best work out of subs. Some subs do different levels of quality. A one time client doesn't have the influence over them that a repeat customer like a GC does. My boss makes a point to pay them quickly once good work is done, pay them a little extra when a situation warrants it, & he gets good quality work out of them.
Some groups of subs who are used by the same GC develop methods that help each other. Subs who are stand alone can be prone to do the least required, making the next guy's job more difficult. Improper placement of nails by framers can make drilling by plumbers & electricians rough. Poor framing makes finish carpentry difficult. There are drywall/plaster guys who pass off fine details to painters, who in turn claim that the previous guy who didn't finish is responsible for those imperfections. Some plumbers, electricians, & HVAC guys take shortcuts & make a mess out of attic or crawl access for any future work that needs to be done. Tile guys, plumbers, & electricians should work together. A good GC is responsible for the overall quality, & should have all those types of details resolved long before your job.
A good GC should also have history with the inspectors. Inspections with homeowner run jobs can be rough. Once an inspector feels his limited time has been wasted by an uninformed homeowner who is running his own job things usually don't go smoothly.
Now all that is said about a good GC. A bad one might not have any of those advantages. The trick is to sort out the good from the bad in advance.
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Uncle_Charlie
Well-known member
Recently I had a conversation at city hall with the desk jockey in the building inspector's office. She hinted at the possibility that in the future, a homeowner will not be allowed to act as their own GC. Any work requiring permits will have to be done through a GC. Otherwise, if I were to pull the permits, I would have to do the work myself. I couldn't pull the permit and contract it out.
I've spent the last two years remodeling the house and the last 6 weeks building the garage/shop. I'm in CA and the Consumer Protection Dept controls the Contractors License Law. I have several varied contractors licenses that went inactive in '85 when I moved east. Now that we are back I pulled my permits as an "Owner Builder". I'm busy and really don't have the skills to general the remodel of the house. I was EXTREMELY fortunate to find a GC who would work with me. He is five steps ahead of everyone on the job and I have to say, I love to watch the guy work. Second day on the job he took my pencil and rule! *****!
I cannot imagine a better scenario than what I have. My advice is find the right guy. If you choose to GC the job you need a "key man" to represent and organize your job. Pay him well and bonus him if the job comes in on time and in budget, and don't be busting his nuts all the time.
I used to do T&M work all the time. One of the best deals was a T&M with a "not to exceed" provision. That gives you your max budget and gives the contractor a target to drive the job. MAKE SURE, if you go this way that your engineering, plans, understanding and expectations down to the details are absolutely clear. I would suggest that you have a few meetings with the contractor where you pay him for his time and he walks you through every detail. whoever said, " the devil is in the details" was I think a GC.
If you have the skills to do it, by all means go for it. Do you have the time. Do you have the relationship with vendors, subs, etc. It all matters. If you don't then look for the best GC you can find and pay him. While the garage is outside, do not overlook the pressure it can bring into the house. That may be the most important thing in my response.
Back in the late 70's early 80's I was a contractor in the Napa Valley. I had a lot of people coming into the area to build their dream houses. Somewhere along the line I would ask the couple, you have your contractor, your architect and your bank, yes? You are satisfied with them and trust them, yes? With stars in their eyes they would respond in the affirmative. I would then tell them to sign all the papers and tell the husband to take his lively bride on an around the world trip. Call in 3-4 months and when your builder tells you the place is ready, come home, move in and start the re-model having had a wonderful trip, saving money and still being married. None of them did it, but almost all of them admitted afterward that I was right.
I cannot imagine a better scenario than what I have. My advice is find the right guy. If you choose to GC the job you need a "key man" to represent and organize your job. Pay him well and bonus him if the job comes in on time and in budget, and don't be busting his nuts all the time.
I used to do T&M work all the time. One of the best deals was a T&M with a "not to exceed" provision. That gives you your max budget and gives the contractor a target to drive the job. MAKE SURE, if you go this way that your engineering, plans, understanding and expectations down to the details are absolutely clear. I would suggest that you have a few meetings with the contractor where you pay him for his time and he walks you through every detail. whoever said, " the devil is in the details" was I think a GC.
If you have the skills to do it, by all means go for it. Do you have the time. Do you have the relationship with vendors, subs, etc. It all matters. If you don't then look for the best GC you can find and pay him. While the garage is outside, do not overlook the pressure it can bring into the house. That may be the most important thing in my response.
Back in the late 70's early 80's I was a contractor in the Napa Valley. I had a lot of people coming into the area to build their dream houses. Somewhere along the line I would ask the couple, you have your contractor, your architect and your bank, yes? You are satisfied with them and trust them, yes? With stars in their eyes they would respond in the affirmative. I would then tell them to sign all the papers and tell the husband to take his lively bride on an around the world trip. Call in 3-4 months and when your builder tells you the place is ready, come home, move in and start the re-model having had a wonderful trip, saving money and still being married. None of them did it, but almost all of them admitted afterward that I was right.
gnpenning
Well-known member
As was mentioned get EVERYONE to sign a lien release at time of payment everytime no matter if you us a GC or not. NEVER make a payment with out a signed release. Anyone that doesn't want to sign that is a red flag. Let them know up front that it will be required. Get a copy of the subs and generals liablility insurance before they start work.
Also get "course of construction" insurance on you build.
Do you have the time, knowledge and organizational skills to be your own GC? If so do it yourself.
Also get "course of construction" insurance on you build.
Do you have the time, knowledge and organizational skills to be your own GC? If so do it yourself.
alwaysFlOoReD
Well-known member
Where does a GC learn his trade? IOW where would I go to learn to be a GC?
Zeke
Well-known member
http://tundratabloids.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/not-this-****-again.jpg
If you don't know...
I know that's not very helpful. I'm a GC so I'm biased. At the same time I've always been a consumer advocate. GC's have a reputation of used car salesmen. For a lot of them, they deserve it.
Many may not agree but I advocate hiring EVERYONE on an hourly basis if you can supervise. No contract and you can stop work anytime during the day or week if you don't like what you see. But you have to know what you're doing and what they are doing. I do, so everyone works by the hour for me. That's the wholesale rate in construction.
When yo hire a GC on contract expect him to make some serious money and hope you get what you pay for. Ask, ask, ask for references.
If you don't know...
I know that's not very helpful. I'm a GC so I'm biased. At the same time I've always been a consumer advocate. GC's have a reputation of used car salesmen. For a lot of them, they deserve it.
Many may not agree but I advocate hiring EVERYONE on an hourly basis if you can supervise. No contract and you can stop work anytime during the day or week if you don't like what you see. But you have to know what you're doing and what they are doing. I do, so everyone works by the hour for me. That's the wholesale rate in construction.
When yo hire a GC on contract expect him to make some serious money and hope you get what you pay for. Ask, ask, ask for references.
RivennHewn
Well-known member
There are as many routes as there are contractors.
Some get a degree in Construction Management, some work their way thru the trades.
Probably the best way is to be a project manager for a GC, learn the game and take it from there
Toolfool
Well-known member
Over the last 25 years I've gotten hundreds of calls from homeowners acting as their own GC. They get my name from the guys at the lumberyard, hardware store or cabinet showroom when they ask "Who do I get to ... (do the things the other subs claim is not their responsibility)?" I'm one of the few contractors who will show up to help people through those unseen bumps (otherwise they get a "handyman" who has no real clue about codes).
building something can be a dream or a nightmare, chose wisely and do your research. If you decide to be your own GC, don't get angry because a crew keeps putting your project off, remember they will only work for you one time, they will work for me many times a year, year after year. Good Luck with your project
AndyCBR
Well-known member
I think it can go either way. You have to be experienced to be able to select and judge subcontractors based on their workmanship. A GC hopefully brings this experience to the table. If you have that experience and can live with the hassle significant savings can be realized. Be warned, many residential subcontractors are a breed of their own and your job site may spend half of the time with nobody on site doing any work due to waiting for subs to show up.
The biggest downside to GC use in the residential market is on site supervision. The subs will come and go on their own and maybe a foreman might stop by every few days. The GC typically provides very little on site supervision.
If you do go the GC route I would strongly recommend putting extra time and detail into your plans/specs/notes so there is no confusion on what materials/means/methods are included in the base bid. IE if you want brand X spray foam insulation you need to specify that on the plans or the GC will figure the minimum batts that meet code and the spray foam will end up as a change order.
In general, it is a good idea to have the most specific, complete plans you can afford to put together. The plans become contract documents in most cases.
Hope this helps.
atty5420
Active member
As Andy said....onsite supervision is the name of the game. I don't care how carefully plans, specifications, are drawn, something WILL go awry. There will be a glitch (in reality, many glitches) during the course of construction. If you are there every day, and you have a rough idea how things should be done, and most importantly, how it is supposed to look, then you have a shot. Take a day off, or even the morning off, and you will be absolutely amazed what can go wrong on that site. Framing, drywall, insulation is one thing, but pouring that rock hard concrete in the wrong place, or against form boards that were constructed six inches off.....is entirely another.
On my house, I caught several errors, not all. If I had not been there every day to look, consult the plans, and just think......I would have had a disaster. Of course, like most people, when it was all said and done, I still had a list of "shoulda, coulda, woulda, and just plain.......why the hell didn't I catch that?".
It's the nature of the business, but in my mind there is no substitute for being there every minute something is going on, as well as many hours just looking and studying at the end of the day. There's something lurking on all jobs. You just have to find it.
On my house, I caught several errors, not all. If I had not been there every day to look, consult the plans, and just think......I would have had a disaster. Of course, like most people, when it was all said and done, I still had a list of "shoulda, coulda, woulda, and just plain.......why the hell didn't I catch that?".
It's the nature of the business, but in my mind there is no substitute for being there every minute something is going on, as well as many hours just looking and studying at the end of the day. There's something lurking on all jobs. You just have to find it.
Contracting is something that takes a lot of common sense. I built many houses some the size of 3 normal homes, and the tricks of the trade come with time and experience. I started rehabbing houses, and I hold a master mechanical license so I had a good idea what went where and how...
I do all my own sight work, from survey to foundation to septic or sewer hooks, I subbed my well work {I don't have a drill}, my form work, this is an art of its own {we did some in house, but I found a guy that did awesome work and was very fair, plus storing the forms is a chore}, granite counter tops {I wouldn't know where to start and the mill/saw is $$$$}, but we did our own sprinklers, plumbing, heating/cooling, finish work, plaster, etc etc etc... I am going to be gc'ing a property for a friend of mine next summer, he just started clearing trees, I am going to do all his sight work and I am having my buddy do his foundation and floors {basement and garage}... By the end of this summer we will have the septic, well, driveway, and foundation done {I am selling my excavator and back hoe this summer, so we have to get that stuff out of the way asap}, we are actually building the house next year.
It only cost him $42K for the land, and the well, septic system, and foundation, etc is only running him $25Kish, my labor is free, he will pay for fuel in my machines, and materials, so for under $70K he has the land and well, septic, driveway, foundation ready to be stick built!!! Going to be a 3100 sq foot home. The oony thing I am a bit worried about is the septic system, they change these codes so often that we could put it in this year and apply for a co next year and if the code changes we will be digging it up.. So I am going to be doing a bit of research on this topic and see if we can get the septic signed off on that far in advance, normally the septic is done and within 60 days the house is being lived in...
I do all my own sight work, from survey to foundation to septic or sewer hooks, I subbed my well work {I don't have a drill}, my form work, this is an art of its own {we did some in house, but I found a guy that did awesome work and was very fair, plus storing the forms is a chore}, granite counter tops {I wouldn't know where to start and the mill/saw is $$$$}, but we did our own sprinklers, plumbing, heating/cooling, finish work, plaster, etc etc etc... I am going to be gc'ing a property for a friend of mine next summer, he just started clearing trees, I am going to do all his sight work and I am having my buddy do his foundation and floors {basement and garage}... By the end of this summer we will have the septic, well, driveway, and foundation done {I am selling my excavator and back hoe this summer, so we have to get that stuff out of the way asap}, we are actually building the house next year.
It only cost him $42K for the land, and the well, septic system, and foundation, etc is only running him $25Kish, my labor is free, he will pay for fuel in my machines, and materials, so for under $70K he has the land and well, septic, driveway, foundation ready to be stick built!!! Going to be a 3100 sq foot home. The oony thing I am a bit worried about is the septic system, they change these codes so often that we could put it in this year and apply for a co next year and if the code changes we will be digging it up.. So I am going to be doing a bit of research on this topic and see if we can get the septic signed off on that far in advance, normally the septic is done and within 60 days the house is being lived in...
Firebird 1
Well-known member
GC checking in here, mostly all good points, I wont belabor the money subject as it has been beatin like a dead horse. One other thing to consider is the amount of work you will have to do. You would be surprised at what subs do and wont do. Some plumbers wont dig or patch, some roofers will only put on shingles, some framers wont put in blocking, etc etc etc. There is a lot of work on a project that the gc will do himself that falls thru the cracks.
Awesome feedback, everyone! Thank you for your insight.
From the sounds of it, it comes down to who you choose.
My obstacle is that we are new to the area and I don't know many people (in or out of the trades)
What questions should I be asking a GC to be sure i hire a great one, if I go that route?
Thank you!
From the sounds of it, it comes down to who you choose.
My obstacle is that we are new to the area and I don't know many people (in or out of the trades)
What questions should I be asking a GC to be sure i hire a great one, if I go that route?
Thank you!
RivennHewn
Well-known member
"Licensed and bonded?" And "can I talk to your references?"
I built my own house, doing almost all of the work myself, but used subs for a several things that I didn't want to learn on my own house. A few thoughts based on that experience:
1) Subs will drop your work to run off to "emergencies" at GC's who are their bread and butter. You are a one time sale for them - so you go to the bottom of the list.
2) GS's know who the good subs are and the bad ones. The good ones are already busy working for GC's, so they ones you get are likely either new or not very good.
3) GC's know have worked with subs before. They know which ones can be left alone and which ones have to be babysat / harassed or otherwise motived. You'll learn this on the fly - perhaps after its too late.
4) Subs (at least the one's you'll be able to hire) may or may not actually follow plans. Where they don't, its almost impossible to get them to come back and fix things. Unless you can be there full time, you are at their mercy.
5) Scheduling subs is like heading cats - especially when you are at the bottom of their list of importance.
I came out of the house building process with a new respect of GCs. You can save money doing their job, but recognize it's a substantial amount of work. Despite only using 3 or 4 subs on my house, dealing with them was most of the stress (the bank provided most of the rest of the stress).
1) Subs will drop your work to run off to "emergencies" at GC's who are their bread and butter. You are a one time sale for them - so you go to the bottom of the list.
2) GS's know who the good subs are and the bad ones. The good ones are already busy working for GC's, so they ones you get are likely either new or not very good.
3) GC's know have worked with subs before. They know which ones can be left alone and which ones have to be babysat / harassed or otherwise motived. You'll learn this on the fly - perhaps after its too late.
4) Subs (at least the one's you'll be able to hire) may or may not actually follow plans. Where they don't, its almost impossible to get them to come back and fix things. Unless you can be there full time, you are at their mercy.
5) Scheduling subs is like heading cats - especially when you are at the bottom of their list of importance.
I came out of the house building process with a new respect of GCs. You can save money doing their job, but recognize it's a substantial amount of work. Despite only using 3 or 4 subs on my house, dealing with them was most of the stress (the bank provided most of the rest of the stress).
Firebird 1
Well-known member
Go to a local lumber yard, NOT lowes or home depot, ask they sales guys at the lumber counter if they can recommend any one. That should be a good start for your search. A good salesman knows who the reputable builders are.