What volume is this argon/CO2 cylinder?

[Brian_P]

I got this gas cylinder (75/25) with a welder I bought a couple of years ago. It's coming time to swap it out (yes, it lasted a while), and I'm having trouble figuring out what size it is - doesn't quite seem like a standard dimension I'm familiar with. Hydro test seems to still be good, but that's the only part of the stamp I can interpret. Any ideas? My best guess is a 150-200cf, but I am really not sure.

Tried the website of the gas supplier that last filled it, but like all welding supply sites, it's not particularly useful.

 

[PCustoms]

Seems each company lists things a bit different. Amazon had a chart that almost matched your cylinder exactly, but I couldn't copy it.

I would just bring it in for an exchange wherever you leased it from.

 

[Brian_P]

The closest I've found is by inferring that a 3AA-M174 is the same as a 3AA-2265, which would imply that this might be a 137/150cf tank.

Unfortunately, I live nowhere near this gas company - will probably need to change over to something locally available, hence trying to figure out what volume of gas it was that lasted me 2 years! If it's really a 150, I'll probably be able to get away with a 125 that would be more easily available.

 

[BD1]

It's a 120 or 125 size. https://www.middlesexgases.com/specialty-gas-cylinder-sizes/
As for date, it appears to be 2013 so its out of certification. Call Welding suppliers and see what their exchange policies are. The can be all different depending on your location. My guy charges $25.00
This is a pretty good welding site that could be useful. https://weldingweb.com/vbb/forum.php

 

[PCustoms]

My guess was a 125cf as well.

Pretty sure that's what I get to, current tank is a few years old but prior to that I was using 2-3 per year.

Around here airgass is the only option, rumour is they only lease small tanks to the average joe. I had an in, so I leased the biggest tank I could carry.

 

[Brian_P]

Thanks! Actually not so sure about the cert - the 2013 is followed by a + and star, which should mean it was a 10-year cert and is good until 2023.

$25 sounds pretty good!

And, yeah. Gas is a pain, and the local welding shops are a bit of a challenge to deal with (very limited hours, not super hobbyist-friendly). Need to decide whether to swap this for another 75/25 and then get a pure argon tank to mix in for pulse spray, or just try to use a 90/10 for everything including regular short circuit. The former is attractive for the ease of swapping tanks, the latter is nice because I need less tanks on hand.

 

[BD1]

Thanks! Actually not so sure about the cert - the 2013 is followed by a + and star, which should mean it was a 10-year cert and is good until 2023.

$25 sounds pretty good!

And, yeah. Gas is a pain, and the local welding shops are a bit of a challenge to deal with (very limited hours, not super hobbyist-friendly). Need to decide whether to swap this for another 75/25 and then get a pure argon tank to mix in for pulse spray, or just try to use a 90/10 for everything including regular short circuit. The former is attractive for the ease of swapping tanks, the latter is nice because I need less tanks on hand.

yes, it should be good to August 2023. https://welditmyself.com/gas-cylinder-date-stamp/

 

[mark-NJ]

Here in NJ, it wouldn't be possible to fill that tank. The name of the tank owner is embossed on the collar...if someone other than the name on the collar were to take that cylinder to a shop in NJ, the shop would consider the tank to be stolen & would alert the tank owner.

It's kinda like milk crates....sure, we all have them in our garages, but take a look: they have the name of a dairy on them. Technically, they're considered stolen property. Same with these big tanks: the owner's name is on the collar.

Don't be surprised if your local dealer won't fill / swap it for you.

 

[cvairwerks]

Around here airgass is the only option, rumour is they only lease small tanks to the average joe. I had an in, so I leased the biggest tank I could carry.

I just picked up a 300cf for my use, about 3 weeks ago. My Airgas guy told me no sales on tanks til late next spring due to only sporadically being able to get new tanks. My local guy was down about 300 tanks when I was there.

 

[BigMike782]

"Here in NJ, it wouldn't be possible to fill that tank. The name of the tank owner is embossed on the collar...if someone other than the name on the collar were to take that cylinder to a shop in NJ, the shop would consider the tank to be stolen & would alert the tank owner."

This kills me! They are in business to sell gas. I have sold thousands of cylinders in the last 20 yrs and 98% of those have had a name on the neck ring. If you set a 125cf cylinder on my dock and said you need to swap it out that's exactly what I'm going to do. If it's a 300 or larger then we need to verify whether it's customer owned or not and that is not decided solely by a name on the neck ring. I have seen all sorts of cross company filled rental size cylinders.

 

[Brian_P]

Here in NJ, it wouldn't be possible to fill that tank. The name of the tank owner is embossed on the collar...if someone other than the name on the collar were to take that cylinder to a shop in NJ, the shop would consider the tank to be stolen & would alert the tank owner.

Wow! Yeah, this is not NJ... Was just on the loading dock of one of the local gas suppliers, and 90% of the tanks there had a name on the ring. None of them really appeared to be the name of the (very reputable) supplier. The regional convention seems to be that as long as a serviceable tank is turned in, another one can go out, and none of the suppliers really worry much about whose name is on it.

I also found out that they won't sell any tanks of anything to anyone right now, due "steel shortage" - if you're not turning one in, all you can do is rent.

 

[mark-NJ]

Maybe I should clarify: Nobody in NJ will "fill" anything larger than a 80, and even then they'd prefer to swap. So if you show up with a tank with someone else's ring on it, they won't swap it because they don't want to be in possession of it. Frankly, above 80 they pretty much insist that you're part of their rental / lease program.

So it's not so much a case of them wanting to be "tank police" but really more about they don't want to take "someone else's tank" in trade.

 

[djhutt]

mark-NJ go to AGL in Clifton They will swap anything. no charge for recert last time i was there (5/22).​

 

[mark-NJ]

I've been to AGL in Clifton. Bigger than an 80 they wouldn't even discuss with me unless I'm leasing from them. I'll just keep swapping 80's at Middlesex.

 

[djhutt]

I do 150s and 300s there I have swapped them out up and down the east coast when on the road with no problems except 1 place in Baltimore. I own all of mine no lease.

 

[mark-NJ]

Interesting. I'll have to call them & discuss.

 

[SM Racing]

Go to Tractor Supply and swap with one there. They should have 75/25. Also, take out your flap wheel and sand the name off the neck ring. Its your bottle, not theirs. Sand and polish the ring smooth and paint it to match the tank.

I despise the racket that these welding shops continue to perpetrate. If I own the bottle and they sold it to me, its mine. I don't have to pay to lease the damn thing and you can take it in exchange for a full bottle. You can sell it just like one of your own bottles. I had a local shop tell me DOT would fine them for having a bottle without their name on it. What a load of BS. 120-150s are constantly bought and sold, they should never have a problem filling or swapping one of those. If they don't want your business. Go else where.

 

[PCustoms]

Also, take out your flap wheel and sand the name off the neck ring. Its your bottle, not theirs. Sand and polish the ring smooth and paint it to match the tank.

Excellent idea!


OP: don't do this. Good way to end up paying for a tank that no one will fill.

 

[Lwel9226]

OP: don't do this. Good way to end up paying for a tank that no one will fill.

Do not do this.... The neck ring is not the only identifier.... They also have serial numbers.... If you alter the cylinder in any way
in an attempt to sell/trade it you are guilty of theft....

Take it to your supplier and let them evaluate it.... Many companies will honor/exchange other companies cylinders.....

LynnW

 

[SM Racing]

Do not do this.... The neck ring is not the only identifier.... They also have serial numbers.... If you alter the cylinder in any way
in an attempt to sell/trade it you are guilty of theft....

Take it to your supplier and let them evaluate it.... Many companies will honor/exchange other companies cylinders.....

LynnW

No you are not. Its your bottle, you paid for it and bought it from a business. Its not their property. It BELONGS to the person who paid for the bottle. Welding bottles are not infinite property of the welding companies, I don't care what they have brainwashed the industry into believing.

When Linde strikes a cylinder its got their or a blank neck ring (or no neck ring). When a welding company glues their neck ring on, that doesn't give them lifelong claim to that bottle. Guess what, other companies will glue their neck rings on at some later time if they acquire the bottle.

Using your logic, what happens to a bottle that was sold by a company no longer in business? Can some random company come get your bottle because maybe they bought the remnants of the company? Nope. If you are renting a bottle that is different. I would say if you are renting a bottle for decades you are bad at math and got suckered into this myth that welding shops perpetrate about cylinders.

 

[rlitman]

No you are not. Its your bottle, you paid for it and bought it from a business. Its not their property. It BELONGS to the person who paid for the bottle. Welding bottles are not infinite property of the welding companies, I don't care what they have brainwashed the industry into believing...

This is BS. Just because you paid for a car doesn't mean you have title to it. It could very well be stolen property.

When it comes to neck rings, here's what you need to know. SOME companies sell cylinders and some rent them. If your neck ring is marked by a company that only rents, then you do not own it, no matter who you paid for it. You were just ripped off by someone.

The easy answer is to bring it to a supplier. They know all the players intimately, and will immediately be able to tell you who the cylinder belongs to.

 

[SM Racing]

The OP bought the cylinder. He owns the cylinder. If you have a receipt that you bought the cylinder from a reputable welding business, its YOUR bottle. If you bought a car and have the title its your car until some one comes along and proves it was stolen. Ain't nobody doing that with welding bottles other than the welding shop trying to steal them from honest customers.

Also we are talking about 120s. Those are mostly sold to indivuduals. If a company won't fill or swap a customer owned cylinder that is in cert, that is their right, but they are doing it out of spite not some federal regulation. I would take my business elsewhere.

In the OPs case, take it to TSC. They don't care whose name is on the bottle, they will swap it. Their supplier will handle it like a grown up and take it back to their facility, test it, recert it, refill it, paint their name on the side, and continue selling it.

To tell a customer that you won't fill their in cert bottle because it has someone else's neck ring is petty and on par for the gas industry in many areas. Still wrong.

 

[rlitman]

The OP bought the cylinder. He owns the cylinder. If you have a receipt that you bought the cylinder from a reputable welding business, its YOUR bottle. If you bought a car and have the title its your car until some one comes along and proves it was stolen. Ain't nobody doing that with welding bottles other than the welding shop trying to steal them from honest customers.

Also we are talking about 120s. Those are mostly sold to indivuduals...

That's reasonable for the OP, if he's to be taken at his word. I'm comfortable a cylinder purchased from a LWS. Purchased on CL or a garage sale, or from some guy, yeah, not so much.

As for 120CF cylinders, yeah, they're mostly owned. But it's there's no hard and fast rule about rental cylinder size. I've seen 0.5CF rental cylinders (for weird gasses, but I digress...). This is very much a regional thing too.

So, yes, most likely he'll have no issues getting it filled. But the next guy who takes your advice may not be so lucky.

 

[BigMike782]

Go to Tractor Supply and swap with one there. They should have 75/25. Also, take out your flap wheel and sand the name off the neck ring. Its your bottle, not theirs. Sand and polish the ring smooth and paint it to match the tank.

Then the next time you take it to a welding supplier and they see that the neck ring(or any part of the cylinder) has been altered you have bell material!
I would not mess with it. When you buy a cylinder you are buying the rights to a cylinder NOT one particular piece of steel. Spend some time around the welding gas industry and you'll walk away from some of these conversations shaking your head.

 

[BigMike782]

The only place to get correct information is from the welding supplier you intend to use.
The info you will get here is speculation or regional at best.

 

[SM Racing]

LOL the welding supplier driver told me locally He wouldn't take my bottle because it had someone else's neck ring (it was ILLEGAL to have on his truck). Well the only welding supply shop delivering to my shop is them, so the bottle came from them. Guess what. That green bottle went back to the shop with a smooth neck ring a bit of fresh paint. They exchanged it and continue servicing my shop to this day. They put it back into circulation and life goes on.

I OWN 5 300FT bottles, one 120, two 80s and one acetylene (Probably an 80). I have dealt with Airgas, and the two local welding shops here. Had another salesman come in the other, I ask him POINT BLANK, will you take the bottles that have the local shops name spray painted on the side. "Yep, doesn't matter to us". This is a big regional outfit.

As long as each welding shop has bottles matching their inventory lists, it doesn't matter whose name is on the tank.

 

[BigMike782]

Another thing learned for years of service......drivers drive and deliver. All else needs to be addressed by a retail store or sales.

 

[Lwel9226]

No you are not. Its your bottle, you paid for it and bought it from a business. Its not their property. It BELONGS to the person who paid for the bottle. Welding bottles are not infinite property of the welding companies, I don't care what they have brainwashed the industry into believing.

You are correct for customer owned cylinders....
I meant that statement for Company owned (rental) cylinders.... I am sorry that I did not explain that better in the first statement.....

Using your logic, what happens to a bottle that was sold by a company no longer in business? Can some random company come get your bottle because maybe they bought the remnants of the company? Nope. If you are renting a bottle that is different. I would say if you are renting a bottle for decades you are bad at math and got suckered into this myth that welding shops perpetrate about cylinders.

You are correct in this also... when companies go out of business another company will buy up their inventory....

I did not think my last statement all the way through before I posted it and I apologize to everyone for any confusion I created....

LynnW