What Welder to Get?

[OverkillYJ]

So here is the deal. I just got a new garage and need a welder. I am thinking a MIG or TIG, but know they are expensive. Need to be able to weld up to 3/8 steel. The reason I say MIG or TIG is that I would like the option to be able to weld aluminum in case myself or a friend crack a transfer case or transmission. This is for building and fabricating parts for Jeeps mainly. I have a 100AMP service in my garage. I would like to get something used to save as much cash as possible. I do not know what brands to avoid though, or which ones last a long time. If it is going to save me a ton of cash to get a stick welder or something I would consider it. My main concern is the strength of the welds, and the duty cycle so I am not constantly stopping on large projects. I was taught how to weld over the course of the past couple of years on a MIG welder, but other then that this is a new subject for me. Any help you guys could offer would be great.

 

[3oheight]

a good option would be the miller 211 with the optional spool gun. thats my next welder. i have an miller 140 mig and a miller 180 diversion currently.
http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/product.php?model=M00245

 

[DavesGarage]

Stick welds are strong as hell but its an art to make a nice weld. I learned on a mig and cant weld for chit with a stick welder. I purchased a Firepower welder from ASE Deals website maybe 8 years ago and that thing has never let me down. Good little welder. At the time it was quite a bit lower cost than a Miller or Lincoln, now they are more money. Its a 160 amp 220 machine. I would recommend it to anyone.

 

[rancherbill]

You know how to MIG, this has a spool gun for your aluminum needs.


http://www.northerntool.com/shop/tools/product_200485145_200485145

 

[JJThrasher]

Lincoln and Miller are the two big names in welding. Either will last a lifetime and provide a quality machine. If your use is minimal I'd look on CL for a local used machine. Research some of the ones you see and hear what owner's say about them. Around here you can pick up a Clarke MIG for under $200 which is a decent entry level machine. For MIG vs TIG its mostly preference. I normally use MIG because its faster for me. However certain things I TIG only.

 

[zkling]

For me it would be a toss up between a mig or tig/stick machine. Aluminum mig is a very fast process, designed for thicker (1/8"+) aluminum. Tig excels on the thin precise stuff, intakes, custom fittings and fuel tanks, thing wall chassis tubing, all material types. In addition you can always attach stick leads for those thicker sections with a tig machine. On the other hand, mig is the workhorse for most general fab shops, body shops and all around repair work. It is not nearly as precise and intricate as tig, but much faster.

IMHO, look for a used 200amp+, 220v input mig machine or an older transformer square wave ac/dc tig.

Miller, Lincoln, Hobart, Esab, Thermal arc. All make good machines. I would avoid the other off brands, but that is up to you.

FYI, and no offense, but a weld is only as strong as the operators knowledge. What can be dangerous is mig welds that look good to an untrained eye, but are really lacking in penetration.

 

[sberry]

A brand new Hobart 210 or Miller 211

 

[brianpgriset]

We need to know your budget.

 

[Stooge]

X2 on the miller 211. I'd definitely start with mig over tig if your just starting out. A lot easier to learn so you won't get as frustrated as learning tig, easier to get parts and consumables for, especially on the weekends, (lowes and HD both carry tips and small spools of both flux core and solid wire) and even a used worthwhile tig setup can cost as much as a new, name brand mig setup.
I've had a few mig machines, 2 hobart machines and my current miller 211 and I don't see needing to upgrade for a long time. Plus you can get the spool gun for aluminum for $200ish new and a small argon tank for doing aluminum.

Tig welding is funner though

 

[trboxman]

A brand new Hobart 210 or Miller 211

This and a spool gun and you can fix anything or build anything that your jeep needs.

 

[R.Anderson]

Welding crack cast aluminum that has been exposed to oil is not that easy. I have only done this with TIG, after cleaning the **** out of the part, I run several cleaning passes and SS brush it between passes till little to no black **** shows on top of the melted aluminum from burnt oil that gets trapped in the casting. Then proceed with the weld pass/es. Definitely no task to take as a beginner unless your using it for practice and don't need it when your done.

Don't know about using a spoolgun for a repair on cast aluminum that has been exposed to oil. Has any one have success with this?

 

[KerryH]

Don't know about using a spoolgun for a repair on cast aluminum that has been exposed to oil. Has any one have success with this?

I would love to hear input from others on this as well as I just recently purchased a welder w/ a spoolgun.

 

[koditten]

Welding crack cast aluminum that has been exposed to oil is not that easy. I have only done this with TIG, after cleaning the **** out of the part, I run several cleaning passes and SS brush it between passes till little to no black **** shows on top of the melted aluminum from burnt oil that gets trapped in the casting. Then proceed with the weld pass/es. Definitely no task to take as a beginner unless your using it for practice and don't need it when your done.

Don't know about using a spoolgun for a repair on cast aluminum that has been exposed to oil. Has any one have success with this?

I know for a fact that using an Al welding spool gun does not work on cast Al oil pans. I have had good luck welding Al tread plate and Al castings on boat motors. I can Al weld boat props.

I wish you wouldn't have reminded me of that.

I seem to only be able to weld on thick or thin stuff.

Back to the original question. All those listed by others will be lifetime machines. You might as well shop for a new unit. Mig units are pretty rare used. You might get lucky and find a used one, but I think you will be unhappy to find out that the used ones are selling at 75% of the price of new. Of all the shop tools out there, it seems that mig welders defy the 50% the cost of new, rule.

Later

KO

 

[StevenB]

If you're looking for a good used unit, get your phone book out or google welding stores in your area and ask them if they have any rentals for sale. Different stores have different inventory. You can usually pick up a good deal on one.

 

[HAP]

Used Millermatic 210 w spoolgun. You will be nicely equiped...

 

[zkling]

I would love to hear input from others on this as well as I just recently purchased a welder w/ a spoolgun.

Can it be done, sure. Is it easy or the best tool for the job? Nope. Look up a guy by the handle of "aametalmaster" if it can be done with a spool gun, he has done it.

If you really want to get ********* into fixing cracked aluminum castings, a large tig is the way to go. Now a spool gun is nice for fast build up.

 

[OverkillYJ]

I did not realize cast aluminum was so difficult. I have not welded aluminum before. I have welded cast steel though, and steel impregnated with oil.

So what would I expect to pay for one like this? It is kinda far from me, but I wouldnt even know what to offer.

http://allentown.craigslist.org/ptd/3967220358.html

 

[fury9]

1000 would be fair, 650 go grab it now

 

[A_Pmech]

If you really want to get ********* into fixing cracked aluminum castings, a large tig is the way to go. Now a spool gun is nice for fast build up.

Amen! Turn up the heat and pass the rod!

 

[zkling]

I did not realize cast aluminum was so difficult. I have not welded aluminum before. I have welded cast steel though, and steel impregnated with oil.

So what would I expect to pay for one like this? It is kinda far from me, but I wouldnt even know what to offer.

http://allentown.craigslist.org/ptd/3967220358.html

I wouldn't go over $700, depending on the situation of the tank and what all it includes with it. They are nice machines, but that one looks like it has been used pretty good. Offer $450-500 to start with. Never know.

EDIT.... I don't know if this is real or not. but if it is.... GO GET IT NOW.

http://philadelphia.craigslist.org/tls/3993807085.html

Dynasty 200DX w/ pedal, torch, ground -->$850

 

[bsaint]

Fanuc

 

[ejm1961Tbird]

Another vote for Millermatic 211 and spoolgun.

 

[theknurl]

a Big TIG......

what do you want to weld?

MIG has a VERY limited selection of wires, yes its quick and dirty

if its weldable you can do it with TIG
Al, Mg, Ti, Cu, bronze, Inconel, Monel et al
then you switch it to stick.....
what else can't you do?
try hardfacing with MIG isn't going to happen

i hardface with TIG.....I use stick rod and knock the coating off

suppose you need a boring bar with a strange profile tool?
grind the tip and weld it to a bar with silicon bronze

want to locally preheat something?
like a stuck inner bearing race? and you don't have the puller...
hit with the TIG and it will just fall off

get a WeldCraft WP-20 water cooled torch and run on city water or a fishpond pump in a 5 gallon bucket (put a few ounces of anti-freeze in to keep the algae down)

and get 330cuft tanks, waaaay cheaper in the long run.....the big fee is for filling it, not the gas, do not buy mixed gases, except C-25 or Stargon.....you can mix them yourself for 1/3rd the money

do not waste your time with a Bernard water coolers, they are noisier than hell and the stupid Oberndorfer pump is made out of diamond dust and platinum

 

[ZRX61]

A blue one

 

[R.Anderson]

Fanuc

??? I hope that's a joke lol besides Fanuc doesn't build welders they build robotic systems for all sorts of applications, and their welding bots use Lincoln welders

I'm thinking a robotic welding system is a little too advance for him and impractical for his applications.

They are fun to use and are fairly easy to program once you get the hang of it. I wanted to program a couple of em to look like they were sword fighting but didn't want risk getting into trouble doing it. I would love to have one if I had the room and the greenbacks to buy one.

 

[R.Anderson]

a Big TIG......
try hardfacing with MIG isn't going to happen

You can hardface with MIG you just have to buy the wire made for it. Its not cheap but there is such a thing.

 

[sberry]

This guy is a poster child for a 200 compact mig, there is a "right" welder for him and that is it, its about results, the mig I would be lost without, could find my way thru most of life without a tig.

 

[justanengineer]

+1 on TIG. Everything you can do with MIG, you can do better, easier, cleaner, and faster with TIG if you know what youre doing.

 

[R6 Racer]

I have a Lincoln 180A 220V with a spool gun for AL.
I love the machine & would get another if mine went missing. A big + for Lincoln is that the cost of the spool gun is WAY less than one for a Miller. The 115/220 usability is the big + for the Miller but I think that is out weighed by the spool gun cost.

Steve

 

[lametec]

they are noisier than hell and the stupid Oberndorfer pump is made out of diamond dust and platinum

No kidding! I bought a TIG welder with a cooler that had an Oberdorfer pump. It was noisy as heck, and the bearings were wore, so I figured I'd overhaul it. Not gonna happen at $200+ for just the inside parts!

I bought a new Procon pump for $50 and made an adapter to fit the motor.

 

[kingston]

Millermatic 252 or larger.

 

[theknurl]

You can hardface with MIG you just have to buy the wire made for it. Its not cheap but there is such a thing.

i stand corrected.....

yes, you can hardface with a MIG......

my lws Sims Welding Supply has sold 1, 10 pound spool as far back as their records go

given that they are the lws for the Los Angles and Long Beach Harbors, the local oil refineries and the rest of the industry in LA

and they sold 1 spool

like the manager said
"its going to be real hard on your equipment......use stick it's dirt cheap in comparison"

a few years back, the 10# spool was ~$150

 

[OverkillYJ]

So what are the limits of the welders you guys are recommending? The Lincoln 210 for example. What is the thickest steel I could penetrate? How long of beads could I run before I need to let it sit for a minute? How much power do I need? Like I said, I only have a 100 Amp service going into my garage. On top of that it is daisy chained off of a 300 amp service that goes into my house if that makes a difference. Of course it has its own breaker.

 

[zkling]

I would recommend that you spend some time and effort reading over the Miller literature. It would not only answer your questions, but give you a good understanding of why we recommended what we did. Realize that one machine is not going to do everything. Purchasing one machine will be a tradeoff of what you need out of it the most and different capabilities.

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/mig/onephase.php

http://www.millerwelds.com/pdf/MMMBG.pdf

http://www.millerwelds.com/resources/improving-your-skills/

http://www.millerwelds.com/products/smartselector/

I think if you read through those, your decision and a lot of your questions will be answered.

 

[zkling]

This guy is a poster child for a 200 compact mig, there is a "right" welder for him and that is it, its about results, the mig I would be lost without, could find my way thru most of life without a tig.

+1 on TIG. Everything you can do with MIG, you can do better, easier, cleaner, and faster with TIG if you know what youre doing.

Each process has it's specific application. One cannot replace the other, although at times they may overlap, but when you get down to it, there is no substitute for the best process for each job.

Just like sberry does alot of mig work and justanengineer does alot of tig work. I can guarantee you their specific welding needs are vastly different.

 

[OverkillYJ]

I should say that welding aluminum is a bonus, not a must. If I could seal cast aluminum it would be nice peace of mind, thats it. Transfer cases and transmissions dont really need to hold pressure as most of you know, just fluid. The stress on them is minimal besides the heat. Also, If I break one every couple of years that is a lot, and I can replace the parts I break for about $100.

Welding steel that I can abuse is my primary concern, as well as a reasonable cost. If stick is the best option I have a brother in law that would be happy to teach me how to use a stick welder. Is it really that hard?

 

[OverkillYJ]

Oh and I need to be able to weld thin steel also. Body repair is a must. Trees take their toll. LOL

 

[BD1]

The 211 Miller is in the CURRENT rebate program. Each machine has it's place. That's why they make so many. A mig is pretty hard to beat especially on thin metal.

http://www.millerwelds.com/landing/build-with-blue/ ''REBATE INFO ''

 

[theknurl]

Each process has it's specific application. One cannot replace the other, although at times they may overlap, but when you get down to it, there is no substitute for the best process for each job.

Just like sberry does a lot of mig work and justanengineer does alot of tig work. I can guarantee you their specific welding needs are vastly different.

zkling.......precisely
the thing i can't figure out is why people want big bulky spool guns using expensive little spools???

i use a Tweko #2 and 33lb spools of ER70S-6

my buddy Todd was welding 3" aluminum plate bow sections for aluminum boat hulls......you think he was using a spool gun?????

oh, please

 

[exophyusical]

Generaly speaking a home use welder does more sitting than welding. If you want a welder that can sit in a corner for a year and a half and then fire up and weld on a moments notice with minimal goofing around you want a stick welder IMO. For smaller home owner type machines I have always been more impressed with the Millers than anything else ( I own a Lincoln but have no brand loyalty) Lincoln makes some of the best and worst welders I've ever used, where as Millers are more consistently good in my experience.

If you realy want a mig my recommendation for good performance and relatively trouble free use would be ESAB and Miller. The Lincoln units that do both stick and mig seem to be particularly prone to throwing fits in my experience.

Take the Tig reccomendations with a grain of salt, not pointing any fingers or calling anyone down but... from my own observations for every guy that can actualy tig weld theres a whole army of "Monster garage" lovin' armchair welders who do nothing but talk a big game. Learning to tig weld properly isn't a weekend course, its pretty funny the amount of people that will tell you stick welding is difficult and the recommend tig instead.