My shop is going up in about a month and I plan on pulling power from the house to the shop. The distance is about 50ft. I'll be digging the trench and installing the conduit. The electrician will do the rest. I have a 200 amp panel for the garage. What type of wire do I need for the run? I've seen the guys posting about clearance wire and I'm hoping I can get lucky in finding some to save some $$. Also inside the garage I plan to run the power in conduit probably pvc type. From what I see its safe/recommeded to run romex in this for the majority of the my needs? With the exception being dedicated wire for heavy circuits like a welder or the lift. Also am I a correct that the outlets in the garage are all supposed to be GFCI or do you just have to have one in the line? Thanks for the help as I try to start gathering bits and pieces here and there.
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What wire for running power to shop.
- Thread starter Magna86
- Start date
mcbane
Well-known member
When you did the load calculation, how many amps did you get? If it came in at 180 amps, you can use 4/0 aluminum.
By the way, it is a pain to pull romex through conduit, and not allowed by code for conduit that will go under the slab. Much easier and more flexible to use individual THWN conductors.
By the way, it is a pain to pull romex through conduit, and not allowed by code for conduit that will go under the slab. Much easier and more flexible to use individual THWN conductors.
kelpaso1
MEMBER EMERITUS
Why wouldn't you just ask the electrician? He will be the one signing off on the work.
theoldwizard1
Well-known member
The size of the panel in the garage does not really matter. The important thing is the size of the breaker FEEDING the panel. The size of that breaker depends on the size of the loads in the garage. Many home garage shop do fine on only a 60A feed.I have a 200 amp panel for the garage. What type of wire do I need for the run?
The best bang for the buck for a feeder cable is usually MHF. The smallest diameter (largest gauge #) is 2-2-4-6. This may or may not be an issue connecting to a 60A breaker in the main panel.
I have 400amp service going to the house and will have a transfer switch to send the power to the garage. The dumb builder installed another 200 amp panel in the house that has nothing run to it which I will use in the garage. The conduit will be running on the walls and or up to the ceiling. Yes 200amp is alot but I didnt get charged for my 400amp service from the power company to the house. Better to have too much than too little. I havent found an electrician yet just gathering the materials I'll need to run everything hoping to catch deals on them here and there.
nadogail
Well-known member
Part of what you pay the Electrician for is his knowledge and ability to answer your questions about load calculations and wire size.
FredWanaker
Well-known member
and there is no guarantee he will want to use your bargain basement wire.Part of what you pay the Electrician for is his knowledge and ability to answer your questions about load calculations and wire size.
Poolshark314
Well-known member
Where are people posting about clearance wire?My shop is going up in about a month and I plan on pulling power from the house to the shop. The distance is about 50ft. I'll be digging the trench and installing the conduit. The electrician will do the rest. I have a 200 amp panel for the garage. What type of wire do I need for the run? I've seen the guys posting about clearance wire and I'm hoping I can get lucky in finding some to save some $$. Also inside the garage I plan to run the power in conduit probably pvc type. From what I see its safe/recommeded to run romex in this for the majority of the my needs? With the exception being dedicated wire for heavy circuits like a welder or the lift. Also am I a correct that the outlets in the garage are all supposed to be GFCI or do you just have to have one in the line? Thanks for the help as I try to start gathering bits and pieces here and there.
Walkers
Well-known member
Uhh, skip the transfer switch, skip the Romex inside conduit. I think you need to find the electrician first and come up with a plan, otherwise you are going to have a lot of expensive parts, unused, in a pile to get rid of after the job is over.
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
since we dont know what your loads are, its anyways WAG as to what size feeder you need.My shop is going up in about a month and I plan on pulling power from the house to the shop. The distance is about 50ft. I'll be digging the trench and installing the conduit. The electrician will do the rest. I have a 200 amp panel for the garage. What type of wire do I need for the run? I've seen the guys posting about clearance wire and I'm hoping I can get lucky in finding some to save some $$. Also inside the garage I plan to run the power in conduit probably pvc type. From what I see its safe/recommended to run romex in this for the majority of the my needs? With the exception being dedicated wire for heavy circuits like a welder or the lift. Also am I a correct that the outlets in the garage are all supposed to be GFCI or do you just have to have one in the line? Thanks for the help as I try to start gathering bits and pieces here and there.
how about posting the loads you will have in the shop?
why are you using a transfer switch for the feed to the shop?I have 400amp service going to the house and will have a transfer switch to send the power to the garage. The dumb builder installed another 200 amp panel in the house that has nothing run to it which I will use in the garage. The conduit will be running on the walls and or up to the ceiling. Yes 200amp is alot but I didnt get charged for my 400amp service from the power company to the house. Better to have too much than too little. I havent found an electrician yet just gathering the materials I'll need to run everything hoping to catch deals on them here and there.
that makes no sense. a transfer switch would be used for a generator...
wyliesdiesels
Well-known member
bingoPart of what you pay the Electrician for is his knowledge and ability to answer your questions about load calculations and wire size.
bingoand there is no guarantee he will want to use your bargain basement wire.
i agree. NM-b in conduit is a pain.Uhh, skip the transfer switch, skip the Romex inside conduit. I think you need to find the electrician first and come up with a plan, otherwise you are going to have a lot of expensive parts, unused, in a pile to get rid of after the job is over.
bingoNo self respecting electrical contractor is going to use customer supplied material, besides warranty issues, it will not be the correct material & end up costing the customer more money.
The big box stores sometimes clearance wire. This isn't bargain basement cheap wire. Further research it seems I need a minimum of 4/0 aluminum or 2/0 copper if I stay under 50ft or I have to jump to 3/0 copper or 300kcmil if I end up further. Ok so we are saying ditch Romex and pull thru individual wires. Lighting will be LED so 15amp circuits should be plenty so 14 gauge will work. Unfortunately my shop is in storage so I can't calculate true loads and will have to wait then until I can look at the equipment. The electrician will be responsible for doing the connection between the house and garage and other wiring changes. I plan to dig the trench and run the wire for him to connect.
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When I planned my shop run, I went with the advice I received here about the type and size of wire which I followed because I was planning on doing everything myself. One of the electricians I had give me a quote (when I got tired and frustrated) refused to use the wire I bought due to it being aluminum 2-2-2-4 (SER for the run from the breaker to junction box then into conduit with USE-2 underground to the shop). The other electrician told me that he just uses his own materials since it is his work. Both had acceptable reasons (one more than the other) for the refusal. Ultimately, I finished the job myself (rather thankful for everything I had learned here and beyond; the job was easier than I anticipated).
If you are planning on using an electrician, let him be the professional and at least give you the input on what to buy or where to buy it. You may end up just wasting your money if they don't want to use your materials.
If you are planning on using an electrician, let him be the professional and at least give you the input on what to buy or where to buy it. You may end up just wasting your money if they don't want to use your materials.
Innovate1
Well-known member
Wireandcableyourway.com is who I used for run to my shop (smaller wire) - just a satisfied customer. AL XHHW 4/0 is $1.78 a foot. They have copper too but 2/0 is over $4/ft. Looks like they have a 5% off deal going. I have a hard time believing you are going to find 50 foot of clearance wire at the big box stores but if you can great.
dcg9381
Well-known member
I buy cable from Wireandcableyourway and agree that MHF is probably a good option (depending on you feed and power needs).
Depending on your setup, 400A service can be separated out - but we don't know where your service starts. It sounds like you're going to run off the house 200A panel, which may be fine too.
I agree with others, don't buy wire until you find your electrician. Too easy to make a mistake and the electrician probably shouldn't trust "customer supplied" wire. If you want to buy it, ask the electrician and provide specifics before purchase.
Generally romex should not be used in conduit.
Depending on your setup, 400A service can be separated out - but we don't know where your service starts. It sounds like you're going to run off the house 200A panel, which may be fine too.
I agree with others, don't buy wire until you find your electrician. Too easy to make a mistake and the electrician probably shouldn't trust "customer supplied" wire. If you want to buy it, ask the electrician and provide specifics before purchase.
Generally romex should not be used in conduit.
teamextreme
Well-known member
Truth.No self respecting electrical contractor is going to use customer supplied material, besides warranty issues, it will not be the correct material & end up costing the customer more money.
OP, you are doing a bunch of planning and research to buy 200A wire when 2 things are going to happen; 1, the electrician won't want to use the parts you bought for the reasons previously mentioned, and 2, supplying a home shop with 200A is ridiculous overkill. Until you do a load calc, as mentioned above, you're guessing. If you have the standard homeowner stuff, maybe a welder, 60 gal compressor, table saw, etc, a 90A feed is more than enough, and likely 60A is plenty.
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AP514
Well-known member
Also run an extra 1-2 Smaller 3/4 PVC conduits for Future needs....Cable/ethernet ect. or 3 way switch for outdoor lighting on garage from house
ncornilsen
Active member
If you're hiring an electrician, let him spec the wire. Assuming a 200 amp feed, which I agree is overkill, 3/0 copper or 250MCM Alu wire will be needed, so size your conduit accordinly. I pulled some 250MCM wire (3 250MCM cables, (1) 4ga ground) into a 2.5" conduit, and it went fairly easy.
You can be sure 2.5" conduit will be enough. If you reduce the breaker size that feeds your shop to 100A, you could do a 2" conduit no problem.
I second the idea to run a parallel 3/4" conduit for low-V purposes.
You can be sure 2.5" conduit will be enough. If you reduce the breaker size that feeds your shop to 100A, you could do a 2" conduit no problem.
I second the idea to run a parallel 3/4" conduit for low-V purposes.
malibu101
Well-known member
OP- remember this on home shop loads. They're not all on at the same time.
You're working by yourself and can only do so much with 2 hands.
Maybe the air compressor may kick on while you're welding with the shop lights on. A scenario like that be your biggest load.
It's not a production shop where many people are running many machines at the same time.
You're working by yourself and can only do so much with 2 hands.
Maybe the air compressor may kick on while you're welding with the shop lights on. A scenario like that be your biggest load.
It's not a production shop where many people are running many machines at the same time.
frankd
Well-known member
I used aluminum (XHHW) wire buried in conduit to feed my garage panel. My run was closer to 150' and I got the aluminum for 1/4 the price of copper.
Had the electrician come out that I got my spare panel from. He recommends running 100amp 20 slot panel to the garage. He said we could run the 200 but there would be alot more paperwork with the city and power company to do so. Not to mention that means more expensive. He said to run aluminum wire and has no problem if he sources it or I do as long as its new wire. Waiting for him to put the quote together so I can go over it. He said would have to separated so I can price shop. Depending on his price told him I would probably do trench and get the PVC for the run. He will also be adding a generator switch to my main house panel. We only have electric where I'm at so I need something for emergencies. He also recommended just running the circuits as 20amp when I actually run the wiring inside and 30amp for items like the lift/compressor/welder/mini split.
dcg9381
Well-known member
Jumping from 90A to 200A is going to cost about 4x as much. For 50', I'd do MHF at 90A.
Mini-splits are often 240V.. In my shop the 2 ton units pull under 15A continuous, so you really don't need to do anything special for them.
Mini-splits are often 240V.. In my shop the 2 ton units pull under 15A continuous, so you really don't need to do anything special for them.
Sorry for the echo, but I also agree 200 amps is a bit much for what you describe.
I used MHF to my detached garage but the plan is to add on living space above at some point so I didn’t want to run everything again. I had an electrician give me a quote, and when I thought it was ridiculous I trenched and ran everything myself. I did have an agreement with the electrician that as long as I ran what he wanted the way he described, he was willing to wire it to the panels, so that was helpful.
My only add to this conversation is when you have the trench open, run everything you ever think you will need in it. And then put in another piece of empty conduit just in case. And a water line.
I used MHF to my detached garage but the plan is to add on living space above at some point so I didn’t want to run everything again. I had an electrician give me a quote, and when I thought it was ridiculous I trenched and ran everything myself. I did have an agreement with the electrician that as long as I ran what he wanted the way he described, he was willing to wire it to the panels, so that was helpful.
My only add to this conversation is when you have the trench open, run everything you ever think you will need in it. And then put in another piece of empty conduit just in case. And a water line.
Noltz
Well-known member
The only thing I'd add is that in the future you might find yourself with multiple EV's. If you think that being able to charge high capacity batteries in the shop might be a thing then 200A might not be so out of line. Tesla Level 2 chargers ("fast" home charger) is a 60A circuit, pulling 48A continuously. Pickups might carry more. If you plunk two chargers on the wall outside that's 120A of "capacity" that's not available to the shop. You could certainly unplug them if you're running a welder or plasma cutter but it'd be better if you didn't need to remember to plug them back in.
And I agree with Mejhaha above; Drop in a network line and a water line. Even a clean up sink that dumps out the back wall is better than nothing.
And I agree with Mejhaha above; Drop in a network line and a water line. Even a clean up sink that dumps out the back wall is better than nothing.
Still waiting for the quote. No hardwire internet out here but I plan to put an extra conduit in the trench incase its needed. If I ran water to the shop I would have to trench it separate anyway because I'm on well and the treatment equipment isnt near the house panels. I thought about running bigger conduit incase in the future an upgrade to 200amp maybe warranted.
75gmck25
Well-known member
In post #22 you mentioned a generator and switch, and I hope that installation is a completely separate project.
Regardless of the wire you run to your shop (I would use 2-2-2-4 AL MHF) , it will only used be to power the shop. There is no simple, safe way to use the same wiring to run a generator at the shop and use it to power the house. If you want to run a generator and power the house it would need to be a separate wiring run for that purpose.
Regardless of the wire you run to your shop (I would use 2-2-2-4 AL MHF) , it will only used be to power the shop. There is no simple, safe way to use the same wiring to run a generator at the shop and use it to power the house. If you want to run a generator and power the house it would need to be a separate wiring run for that purpose.
dcg9381
Well-known member
I have a generator on my home. One thing we did is install "generac smart disconnects" - they're moderately priced and there is a 100A version. If the generator frequency (rpm) drops below a threshold, the disconnects kick themselves off. Upon power loss, they also start a timer so large loads do not come on at the same time. We offload one of our ACs and we have another 100-amp offload for a separate garage apartment. They stand alone and do their own thing, no wires to connect other than power.Yes the generator switch will be installed in the house main panel.
Model A Fan
Well-known member
Check out my thread here: Sub-Panel in Garage-Adding 220v for Table Saw and Air Compressor
I went from high power demands to realistic needs. I have a 90A panel being fed by 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder (MHF). I bought 60' for roughly $2.50/ft. I haven't begun my project as I'm compiling my materials and knowledge so I can do it all at once, but it isn't too hard to figure out once you get the gist of how this stuff works. I will still have fine-tuning questions to ask, but that's it. My quotes were $4100 and $4200, $3300 of which was materials and a ripoff, so I said, "screw that" and figured I'd do it myself. I'm into my project for $1234 in materials and have all that I need. I don't need to pay 3x for the electrician to run to Home Depot to buy the same stuff I did.
I don't think this is anything you can't figure out with time, patience, and shopping around. Measure how much feeder wire you need and have extra at both ends "just in case". Coming up short would be no bueno. Use 12/2 for all your circuit wiring for 20A and under, 10/2 for 30A, and you'll be good. If you have something that is more than 30A for equipment, size it appropriately. 12/2 will work fine for your 15A lighting and you can use 20A outlets instead of 15A which may be more likely to melt if you have too much running at a time.
I went from high power demands to realistic needs. I have a 90A panel being fed by 2-2-2-4 Mobile Home Feeder (MHF). I bought 60' for roughly $2.50/ft. I haven't begun my project as I'm compiling my materials and knowledge so I can do it all at once, but it isn't too hard to figure out once you get the gist of how this stuff works. I will still have fine-tuning questions to ask, but that's it. My quotes were $4100 and $4200, $3300 of which was materials and a ripoff, so I said, "screw that" and figured I'd do it myself. I'm into my project for $1234 in materials and have all that I need. I don't need to pay 3x for the electrician to run to Home Depot to buy the same stuff I did.
I don't think this is anything you can't figure out with time, patience, and shopping around. Measure how much feeder wire you need and have extra at both ends "just in case". Coming up short would be no bueno. Use 12/2 for all your circuit wiring for 20A and under, 10/2 for 30A, and you'll be good. If you have something that is more than 30A for equipment, size it appropriately. 12/2 will work fine for your 15A lighting and you can use 20A outlets instead of 15A which may be more likely to melt if you have too much running at a time.